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Post by moe on Mar 7, 2013 13:42:14 GMT -5
Wow....we finally have a breakthrough, congrats. Hey moe, As always your posts are so enlightening . Especially since you haven't posted here in several months. I feel so special that you came out of your Lounge hiatus just for little ole' me ;D. Bill Howdy Bill, sorry, I'm not really here to enlighten anyone, like some are......I do stop by on occasion to check XMC status. I thought calibration results sounded interesting. I wish I had the time to just yak about lots of opinions on gear all over the net but there's lots going on that actually matters, but...when I get a minute... I just found interesting ............. Have a GGGRREAT Day, Happy listening.
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Post by sfdoddsy on Mar 7, 2013 22:01:57 GMT -5
Room modes cannot be fixed with eq alone. In fact room treatment is a better approach. If resonant freguencies have been reduced as much as practical with room treatment (bass absorbers), then eq at a specific resonate frequency can optimize response at any given position plus nodal increments of that position. So, yes small room low frequency response is somewhat addressable by amplitude equalization. But high frequency resonances in large spaces are less correctable because of significant time smear due to the distances involved. That's not quite correct. Room treatments work best at frequencies above bass levels. Curing bass woes through trapping requires massive traps, tuned resonators and other impractical treatments. Bass modes are wehere EQ is best.
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Post by mgbpuff on Mar 8, 2013 7:50:16 GMT -5
Wrong - read your reference article again and you will see that acoustical adjustments and treatments were applied first, including even the 3 dimensional seat locations selected to give the most even seat to seat response as possible. Then and only then, equalization was applied to correct response at the main seats B & C via 2 parametric filters, approx 35hz and 50 hz and a lot of higher frequency shaping to attain a desired 'theater curve". Most of us audiophiles are more interested in flat response than in theater curves, plus we usually are only interested in the response at one single listening position. Anyway, as Hilary would say, "It takes a village".
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Mar 8, 2013 13:00:59 GMT -5
Exactly..... And it's not just high frequency issues. Let's say you have a room with a really sharp peak at 33 Hz (let's say +20 dB). Let's also assume that your sub is flat by itself. OK, so the peak has to be caused because the sound is bouncing back and forth (maybe between two walls) instead of being absorbed. (Well, it's doing more of that than sounds at other frequencies.) Now, we can use EQ and simply turn the gain down 20 dB at 33 Hz, but let's see what happens....... We've made the level at 20 Hz lower so, over the long term, we're starting with 20 dB less, and so, after the bouncing, we end up with the right AMOUNT of sound at 20 Hz.... but it's not that simple. Our ears can tell the difference between sound that arrives right away and sound that arrives later, and sound that is reflected. So, what we've done is made the sound level at 33 Hz correct ON AVERAGE by reducing the amount that arrives right away by 20 dB - so now THAT amount is wrong. [Now, I picked a bad example, because you may or may not be able to differentiate those different arrivals at 33 Hz (that would depend on how long the reverberance time was at that frequency - odds are it would only be audible in a very large room), but you sure can at higher frequencies. In other words, using EQ alone, you can correct for either early arrival frequency response OR average power response - but never for both. Room treatments correct for the ration between the early and late arrival time sounds..... which is what makes a room sound "live" or dead".] Room modes cannot be fixed with eq alone. In fact room treatment is a better approach. If resonant freguencies have been reduced as much as practical with room treatment (bass absorbers), then eq at a specific resonate frequency can optimize response at any given position plus nodal increments of that position. So, yes small room low frequency response is somewhat addressable by amplitude equalization. But high frequency resonances in large spaces are less correctable because of significant time smear due to the distances involved.
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Post by FilmMixer on Mar 9, 2013 15:53:50 GMT -5
Yes - eq can't fix bad acoustics or speakers and is unneeded with great acoustics and speakers. Most of us are in between, decent speakers and decent acoustics but not ideal. That is why I bought the UMC-200 - to tweak a good setup closer to really good. Unless you are trying to match a certain target, i.e. flat response, x-curve, etc... Even our dubbing stages, which were purpose built to the tune of millions of dollars, require EQ to achieve such results... While there may not be a perceived need, i.e. you subjectively like the sound of a well treated room and it's equipment, in my experience you cannot get there without some form of signal processing.
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Post by sacdukeman on Mar 10, 2013 1:55:31 GMT -5
Nice to hear from you, mixer. Been some time since I shared your wisdom on AVS.
I agree with what you said - I was simply generalizing. Reatively speaking, the greatest benefit from the parametric eq would be to a moderately good speaker ssytem in a moderately good room. But there would still be some benefit to other users too.
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Post by SticknStones on Mar 14, 2013 15:26:09 GMT -5
I see Jeff or UMR dropped out and I am not sure who to thank for that. I was enjoying his perspective and do not think the challenges to him had merit beyond being a challenge. A real challenge would offer a counter perspective provided in a constructive manner not a mere criticism. I was reading up on the UMC 200 as I fear that the XMC is going to be delayed much beyond my original hopes which were around this March time frame. That said, I was trying to get to the differences in the UMC-1 versus 200 and was liking what was being said. I think it is important to think through our communication styles on this forum and if persons are trying to provide constructive perspective then try to match it not attack it. Purty Please that is~
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Mar 14, 2013 15:39:53 GMT -5
I'm going to get in touch with him in the near future @ www.accucalhd.com as I too appreciated his input.
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Bruce
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Post by Bruce on Mar 14, 2013 16:04:22 GMT -5
I'm going to get in touch with him in the near future @ www.accucalhd.com as I too appreciated his input. Jeff is a Fantastic guy and does not screw people of their money as he spends a lot of time on his calibrations.I have used him with 2 calibrations and he was here close to 4 hours.People should not challenge other peoples wisdom as a lot do on the Lounge and I am afraid he has dropped out because of the people who made it personal.We all should be not so forward in our challenges and take in info the PROS'S are helping us with.
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Mar 14, 2013 16:52:28 GMT -5
I'm going to get in touch with him in the near future @ www.accucalhd.com as I too appreciated his input. Jeff is a Fantastic guy and does not screw people of their money as he spends a lot of time on his calibrations.I have used him with 2 calibrations and he was here close to 4 hours.People should not challenge other peoples wisdom as a lot do on the Lounge and I am afraid he has dropped out because of the people who made it personal.We all should be not so forward in our challenges and take in info the PROS'S are helping us with. He obviously knows his craft, or he wouldn't be constantly booked up! As for those challenging him, it ceases to amaze me that some people refuse to be considerate, appropriate, civil and respectable, especially behind a "Keyboard". I will say though that the Lounge is moving in the right direction in dealing with these types of issues and will continue to do so.
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Post by avaddikt on Mar 14, 2013 17:30:02 GMT -5
My only objection is a quibble. Jeff told one member that he does not cover his 'area' and made it sound like the poster was out of luck, in so many words. Surely, there are quite a few competent pros that also make the rounds (in fact I know there are) and I can't say unequivocally that their skills and knowledge will be at the same level. But certainly, they would be able to make a noticeable improvement if any improvement is possible.
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Post by moodyman on Mar 15, 2013 7:16:12 GMT -5
As for those challenging him, it ceases to amaze me that some people refuse to be considerate, appropriate, civil and respectable, especially behind a "Keyboard". O brother. Are we reading the same thread?? Jeff was the one that threw down the challenge by pretty much stating nobody could do what he did. I thought the responses were quite civil and considerate.
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Post by moe on Mar 15, 2013 7:53:18 GMT -5
Is it just me or is it the same ones over and over and over year after year that just come here( and elsewhere) to poke their finger in Emotivas eye? There must be some underlying reason but danged if I can figure it out.
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Post by jdskycaster on Mar 15, 2013 9:26:25 GMT -5
O brother. Are we reading the same thread?? Jeff was the one that threw down the challenge by pretty much stating nobody could do what he did. I thought the responses were quite civil and considerate. I did and for some reason there were those that took his response as a challenge and others that just took it at face value. He currently does not travel to that area, does not know of anyone that provides the same service he does. The only thing obvious to me was that he takes pride in his work. Those that felt challenged, or personally offended in some way, decided to respond negatively rather than finding a way to respectfully ask for clarity. I would not blame him a bit for leaving but it could be that he is busy with his work and just does not have time to continue to post in this thread.
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Post by avaddikt on Mar 15, 2013 11:25:45 GMT -5
I am one of Jeff's biggest advocates. I was just stating he left the poster with no alternatives. He could have even referred him here to search for other calibration services. www.imagingscience.com/Like I said, it was a 'quibble'.
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Bruce
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Post by Bruce on Mar 15, 2013 11:25:58 GMT -5
++++1 He does take GREAT PRIDE in his calibrating with AUDIO and VIDEO.When I purchased my Pioneer Plasma he was one of the BEST calibrating the PIONEER KURO as he did with my Plasma.He also is very strong on his opinion of calibrating AUDIO for his customers.
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Post by The Mad Norseman on Mar 15, 2013 12:51:10 GMT -5
Is it just me or is it the same ones over and over and over year after year that just come here( and elsewhere) to poke their finger in Emotivas eye? There must be some underlying reason but danged if I can figure it out. There are two or three 'know-it-all' posters left on this forum who also don't have very good social filters (for lack of a better term!). These guys are always the ones to weigh in with a not so veiled insult or "challenge", always posed in aggressive language that's meant to stick a thumb in the eye of their target. I think the moderators here mostly know who they are, but some still persist. (One I can think of has been gone a few months now at least!). Moving in the right direction overall though,...
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Post by jmilton on Mar 15, 2013 13:05:02 GMT -5
Is it just me or is it the same ones over and over and over year after year that just come here( and elsewhere) to poke their finger in Emotivas eye? There must be some underlying reason but danged if I can figure it out. There are two or three 'know-it-all' posters left on this forum who also don't have very good social filters (for lack of a better term!). These guys are always the ones to weigh in with a not so veiled insult or "challenge", always posed in aggressive language that's meant to stick a thumb in the eye of their target. I think the moderators here mostly know who they are, but some atill persist. (One I can think of has been gone a few months now at least!). Moving in the right direction overall though,... I'm glad you did not name "Chuckienut the rabble-rowser" out loud. (Oops!)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2013 13:30:58 GMT -5
You took the words right out of my mouth!
PS: jmilton7043 won't be getting a free live Easter Bunny Wabbit!
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Post by The Mad Norseman on Mar 15, 2013 18:19:26 GMT -5
Hey! - I love chuckienut! (Not him I was referring to of course! ).
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