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Post by mraub1 on Jan 10, 2014 15:14:26 GMT -5
A lot of us will be interested to see how Dirac compares to Trinnov. I'm now using a Sherwood R972 as my AV processor, since I found Trinnov makes the speakers as individual sound sources disappear in a way Audyssey never did. I have my speakers properly positioned so I don't need Trinnov's steering function and hope the time domain corrections shared by both Trinnov and Dirac account for the benefits of Tirnnov I really like. The R972 is extremely quirky and I'd love to have a modern processor that gives me the same sound quality.
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Post by architect7 on Jan 28, 2014 21:43:01 GMT -5
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Post by oppman99 on Jan 31, 2014 18:05:48 GMT -5
A lot of us will be interested to see how Dirac compares to Trinnov. I'm now using a Sherwood R972 as my AV processor, since I found Trinnov makes the speakers as individual sound sources disappear in a way Audyssey never did. I have my speakers properly positioned so I don't need Trinnov's steering function and hope the time domain corrections shared by both Trinnov and Dirac account for the benefits of Tirnnov I really like. The R972 is extremely quirky and I'd love to have a modern processor that gives me the same sound quality. Interesting take. I had a 972 for a very short time. I got rid of it very quickly because I thought the sound quality was seriously lacking. To my ears, all my CD quality rips sounded like low bitrate mp3's. I don't know much about the older vesions of audyssey, but XT32 has been very good from what I have heard first hand (at least from the Integra 80.3). If I had the money to replace my current HT processor, I think I would like to get my ears on a Marantz 8801. |
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Post by architect7 on Feb 1, 2014 4:06:14 GMT -5
A lot of us will be interested to see how Dirac compares to Trinnov. I'm now using a Sherwood R972 as my AV processor, since I found Trinnov makes the speakers as individual sound sources disappear in a way Audyssey never did. I have my speakers properly positioned so I don't need Trinnov's steering function and hope the time domain corrections shared by both Trinnov and Dirac account for the benefits of Tirnnov I really like. The R972 is extremely quirky and I'd love to have a modern processor that gives me the same sound quality. Interesting take. I had a 972 for a very short time. I got rid of it very quickly because I thought the sound quality was seriously lacking. To my ears, all my CD quality rips sounded like low bitrate mp3's. I don't know much about the older vesions of audyssey, but XT32 has been very good from what I have heard first hand (at least from the Integra 80.3). If I had the money to replace my current HT processor, I think I would like to get my ears on a Marantz 8801. Save your $$$ and get the Denon AVR-4520CI. Same thing as the 8801 but with amps and less markup. |
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Post by flak on Feb 1, 2014 11:02:14 GMT -5
Gentlemen, I do plan on doing the free trial as well, it just won't be this weekend as I've got uncle/godfather duties this weekend for my nephews birthday. Chuck, I see you have the calibration file, I also have the calibration files provided from Cross Spectrum Labs where I bought it from. I just checked the DIRAC site and yes they do sell the UMIK-1, just not in the US as of yet, it does however have a look up for your particular serial # UMIK-1 and provides the calibration as a .txt file. I haven't compared the files from Cross Spectrum Labs and DIRAC but I suspect DIRAC's calibration file for your specific UMIK-1 may be what's needed and not the .FRD file from CSL. Calibration file download link for those of you that have a miniDSP UMIK-1 is below. www.dirac.se/umik-calibration-file-download.aspxI'm quite excited to give the trial a go, just not until next week some time. Post your results here and I'll sticky this thread for those who are interested, have questions, or are actually giving this trial a go. Hi LCSeminole  I see you have a mic which has been calibrated by Cross Spectrum Labs.... fine, you can use their .frd file and this will allow you to use your mic in a vertical position (that I personally like) by using their 90° calibration. You will find the details here: diracdocs.com/MicCalibration.pdfCiao, Flavio |
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Feb 1, 2014 11:25:18 GMT -5
Gentlemen, I do plan on doing the free trial as well, it just won't be this weekend as I've got uncle/godfather duties this weekend for my nephews birthday. Chuck, I see you have the calibration file, I also have the calibration files provided from Cross Spectrum Labs where I bought it from. I just checked the DIRAC site and yes they do sell the UMIK-1, just not in the US as of yet, it does however have a look up for your particular serial # UMIK-1 and provides the calibration as a .txt file. I haven't compared the files from Cross Spectrum Labs and DIRAC but I suspect DIRAC's calibration file for your specific UMIK-1 may be what's needed and not the .FRD file from CSL. Calibration file download link for those of you that have a miniDSP UMIK-1 is below. www.dirac.se/umik-calibration-file-download.aspxI'm quite excited to give the trial a go, just not until next week some time. Post your results here and I'll sticky this thread for those who are interested, have questions, or are actually giving this trial a go. Hi LCSeminole I see you have a mic which has been calibrated by Cross Spectrum Labs.... fine, you can use their .frd file and this will allow you to use your mic in a vertical position (that I personally like) by using their 90° calibration. You will find the details here: diracdocs.com/MicCalibration.pdfCiao, Flavio Thanks Flavio, I've actually wondered which of the .frd files would be preferred. Thank you for the tip. I'm going to dig out my UMIK-1 from storage and hope to give the DIRAC trial a go in the very near future. |
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Post by dean70 on Feb 5, 2014 23:15:23 GMT -5
I dont have Dirac, but have gone through the process of Phase and Frequency correction using linear phase filters on a HTPC music setup & and a big improvement coming from the same setup with basic PEQ (min phase) as room correction!
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Post by flak on Feb 8, 2014 6:49:50 GMT -5
I dont have Dirac, but have gone through the process of Phase and Frequency correction using linear phase filters on a HTPC music setup & and a big improvement coming from the same setup with basic PEQ (min phase) as room correction! Hi Dean, as you say it is possible to get a good improvement from a basic PEQ (minimum phase) correction as long as you stay away from the regions of frequencies where your listening room has a mixed-phase behaviour... you will find an interesting confirmation here: www.acousticfrontiers.com/whats-new/2012/11/1/audyssey-xt32-vs-parametric-eq.htmlBut not as good as with Dirac Live which is a mixed-phase solution... I'm quoting a previous post where we tried to explain the limitations of minimum or linear-phase filters: "Infinitely many different filters can be designed to have the exact same magnitude response. They differ only in their impulse response. Therefore, it is useful to classify filters according to how their impulse responses behave. Two commonly used filter classes in audio applications are minimum-phase filters and linear-phase filters. They are two special cases that are relatively easy to design, but that come with tightly constrained impulse response characteristics. A minimum-phase filter, by definition, is constrained to apply only the smallest possible delay to the signal given a desired magnitude response. A linear-phase filter, by definition, applies a delay which is constant across the whole frequency range. Therefore, neither of these two filter designs can make a desired change to the phase or impulse response, unless the desired change is exactly the particular change they make by definition. Minimum-phase and linear-phase filters may even worsen both the impulse response and the magnitude response of a system, simply by applying their magnitude response corrections at the wrong time. A more difficult design task is to make a mixed-phase filter that matches a desired magnitude response while also having a customized impulse response. A properly designed mixed-phase filter can make significant improvements to the impulse response of a sound system at the listening position" Ciao, Flavio |
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Post by dean70 on Feb 10, 2014 18:39:51 GMT -5
The difference I have found in listening is the min phase is highly depependant on listening postion, ie: can vary by a fair amount depending on where you sit. The lin phase eqivelent is much more forgiving of listening position even though they were both sampled from a single measurement point.
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Post by mdanderson on Feb 16, 2014 5:01:20 GMT -5
Will a boom stand be required for the mic? Dirac's website says 9 positions are required for the mic position in order to run the software. Please correct me if I am wrong. Thanks.
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Post by flak on Feb 16, 2014 5:36:54 GMT -5
Will a boom stand be required for the mic? Dirac's website says 9 positions are required for the mic position in order to run the software. Please correct me if I am wrong. Thanks. Yes, a boom stand would be a good idea Flavio |
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Post by mdanderson on Feb 16, 2014 20:45:35 GMT -5
Will a boom stand be required for the mic? Dirac's website says 9 positions are required for the mic position in order to run the software. Please correct me if I am wrong. Thanks. Yes, a boom stand would be a good idea Flavio Thanks Flavio. I guess they can be found in music stores. |
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Post by ansat on Feb 18, 2014 9:10:49 GMT -5
Yes, a boom stand would be a good idea Flavio Thanks Flavio. I guess they can be found in music stores. I got mine from amazon. Tony |
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Post by LCSeminole on Feb 18, 2014 9:45:04 GMT -5
Thanks Flavio. I guess they can be found in music stores. I got mine from amazon. Tony Hey Tony, you have a link for that? Please! |
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Post by ansat on Feb 18, 2014 9:49:18 GMT -5
I got mine from amazon. Tony Hey Tony, you have a link for that? Please! You will still need a head for it. And since we have not seen the mic yet, there is nothing I can recommend. Tony |
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Post by LCSeminole on Feb 18, 2014 9:55:23 GMT -5
Thanks Tony, just ordered it, at $22.97 that was inexpensive. I'm going to order an adapter for the UMIK-1 I'm using now and wait to see what is necessary with the mic provided. |
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Post by roadster on Feb 18, 2014 10:04:19 GMT -5
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Post by KeithL on Feb 18, 2014 10:51:35 GMT -5
Just a quick comparison - and to answer the question someone asked about how you would use DIRAC with a manual equalizer..... This is a bit of an oversimplification, but basically DIRAC is made up of two functional parts: 1) The "analysis part" which, in conjunction with a measurement microphone, measures the room and calculates the required corrections. 2) The "engine" which takes the corrections as calculated by the first part and applies them to your music. Where these parts reside in your particular system determines "how things work". With the XMC-1, the measurement and calculation section reside on a computer (and partly on DIRAC's servers). This section will calculate the corrections, then download that information to the XMC-1. The "engine", which will be run on the DSP HARDWARE in the XMC-1, then performs the specified corrections on WHATEVER you play through the XMC-1. Once DIRAC is set, it will work on anything you play through the XMC-1, regardless of the original source (so it will work with your Cable Box, and your Blu-Ray player, etc.) In contrast, the full-software version of DIRAC (the one you can purchase from their website), does the entire process in software. Since it is software running on your computer, this version will (should) work with any software player you use. Of course, your PC will have to have enough processing power to run both the DIRAC module and the player you normally use, and there is the possibility of software interactions and problems between it and whatever else is running on your computer. Also, since it runs on your computer, it will be delivering output through your computer's sound card. And, of course, it will only work on sources you are playing with or through your computer. (If you want to work out how to play a Dolby TruHD disc through your PC, decode it properly, apply room correction in software, then somehow avoid the cheesy DACs in your sound card by getting a digital output you can send to a real pre/pro, I wish you luck. I'm sure it CAN be done..... errr..... probably..... Considering how difficult it is to get normal surround modes to play reliably and correctly on an HTPC, and get an HDMI output from a computer to work smoothly once you do, I value what's left of my sanity too much to even try.  ) The Amarra version obviously only works with Amarra - and can only be used with source material played on Amarra, and with output hardware that you connect to Amarra (and on a Mac, of course). So, if you use your Mac and Amarra for playing stereo music, then you will ONLY be able to use it with stereo music you play on that computer. (Personally, since you can get FooBar2000 for free, or jRiver for $50, or the BitPerfect plugin for iTunes for somewhere around $10, and all of them can deliver the same perfect bits as Amarra, I am at a loss as to how anybody can justify the price of Amarra by itself, but I suppose it has some wondrous features I missed ). Now, it is also possible to use DIRAC to generate corrections which can then be downloaded and run on certain dedicated "DSP little black boxes". If you do THAT, then your performance will depend on the hardware you use, and the particular version of the "engine" that it runs. Bear in mind, however, that this has the same limitations vis-a-vis surround sound as a computer - either your little black box has to do the decoding, or it has to be fed individual channels, either digital or analog, apply correction to them, then either convert them to analog or send them to a multi-channel DAC of some sort. This isn't terribly difficult if all you want to do is use it for your sub, and using analog inputs and outputs is OK with you, but is quite a bit more complicated if you want to integrate it with a surround sound pre/pro. As for using DIRAC corrections with a manual parametric (or other) EQ, you can basically forget it! When you use frequency-domain correction software, what it will give you is a set of correction EQ CURVES. Basically, it's giving you a list of settings that need to be made ON AN ORDINARY EQUALIZER to implement its corrections. Even if you have no way to "download" those settings, you can still enter them MANUALLY into a parametric equalizer and they should work fine. However, DIRAC performs specific time and frequency domain corrections that extend far beyond the capabilities of an equalizer. In other words, a regular parametric EQ cannot do the corrections that DIRAC will call for (you need the DIRAC "engine" to run the DIRAC configuration corrections.) In simple terms, you need a DIRAC 'engine" to run DIRAC settings; a plain old graphic or parametric equalizer cannot do it. That might just well be a decent audio player but if you are willing to spend that kinda money on a software player you outta get your head examined! The pricing for that software is LAUGHABLE and I don't care how well coded or how it sounds it's a SCAM. WASPI exclusive with XMplay/BASS library I bet sounds just as good if not better and is FREE. A decent commercial product is JRiver and I'm sure it's feature-set bests that outrageously priced scammer apple software. But none of those software solutions provide Dirac which is $528 US for the stereo stand-alone software. It would be pretty hard to do room correction with those that you mentioned... |
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Post by DYohn on Feb 18, 2014 10:59:25 GMT -5
Thanks for that post Keith.
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Post by LCSeminole on Feb 18, 2014 11:00:18 GMT -5
The minidsp link you refer to is a really good way to get started with P-EQ. This is what I've been using with the P-EQ in the UMC-200 and will work with other P-EQ's from other manufacturers. I'll be using it with the XMC-1's manual P-EQ(11 bands of P-EQ to all 7.2 channels, info from the last EmoFest unless it's changed since then) for a comparison to DIRAC soundwise. |
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