UMC-200 HDMI Handshake issue with PS3?

[stoopalini]

I've had the UMC for a couple of weeks now, and we've always had an issue when switching inputs to a PS3.  Not sure if this is a handshake issue or not, but hoping someone can help me determine if this is equipment failure of some kind, an incompatibility, or just a user configuration issue.

See my sig for my system makeup.  Everything is run to the UMC-200 via Monoprice 24awg HDMI cables (using an HDMI converter for the Wii), then a 24awg HDMI cable down to HDMI-1 input of the Samsung.  I have all CEC options turned off in the UMC-200, and am operating on the .47 firmware.  The TV does not have any CEC or Samsung's AnyNet features.

The issue is:  Whenever I switch to the PS3 input, the screen will go black, and the TV will start a constant rebooting sequence.  It reboots over and over for some reason, displaying the Samsung logo as it boots.  The PS3 audio during this time will play for 1-2 seconds, then go quiet for 7-10 seconds at a certain time during the TV rebooting cycle.  The only consistent way to make everything sync up, is to switch the UMC's input to something else, wait for it to sync, then switch back to the PS3.  This seems to work until we access an app, like Netflix, the screen goes blank again, and the TV starts rebooting again.  I then have to switch the inputs on the UMC again to make it sync up.  Once in netflix, it seems ok, unless I access a 3D program ... then it starts rebooting again, etc ...  It seems any major change in display resolution is causing the issue, but that's just a guess.

I finally had some time to troubleshoot it tonight.  I tried swapping HDMI cables, and experienced the same symptoms.  So I then ran an HDMI cable from the PS3 directly to the HDMI-2 input on the TV, and an optical cable from the TV back up to the UMC-200.  Now when I switch inputs, the video is rock solid.  No delays, no rebooting, no issues.  PCM audio is passing through the TV up to the PS3, but it is still acting strange.

As an example of the strange audio, if I'm using the Netflix app on the PS3, and moving around the menus, I get the standard "click/beep" sound with no issue.  The UMC shows 2-channel PCM coming through.  If I stop navigating, and just leave the remote alone with a show highlighted but not started, after 1-2 seconds, a light pop comes from the speakers (I assume the UMC is muting), and the UMC display changes to "No Audio".  Then when I start navigating again, I get another pop (unmuting?), and 2-channel PCM is displayed again; although it takes the UMC a couple of seconds to unmute the audio, so I don't hear the 1st 3-4 clicks from navigating through the menus.

This same delay in unmuting happens when watching the VIP-722k DVR box when fast forwarding (or rewinding).  The system mutes when the audio is not present (because of fast forwarding), then unmutes when I stop; except it takes a good 2-3 seconds before the audio comes back.

I may be dealing with 2 issues here, one being the PS3 switching causing the TV reboot and the other being the muting/unmuting when no audio is being sent. 

I plan to call Emotiva support tomorrow, but thought I'd check in here to see if anyone else is having any similar issues ...

[drtrey3]

I was going to suggest that you switch cables, good job ruling that one out! I have not had that issue and I run my PS3 into the UMC-200 daily. I have 11 year old boys. 8)
You sound like a guy who will get this figured out and I know Emotiva will help on their end.

Trey

[stoopalini]

I found this thread: emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/27806/umc-200-ps3-hdmi-instability which seems to be exactly the issue I am experiencing.

When I get a chance, I am going to try disabling deep color in the PS3, and if that doesn't work, I'll try a different HDMI port on the UMC (I'm using HDMI #3, like the poster of that thread)

[boum]

I also have a PS3 (the fat version) and experienced a lot of video and audio blanks when switching to it. Emotiva support recommended these video settings:

Video output HDMI 1080p
Audio Auto
Cross Color off
RGB fullrange limited
Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr Supper white off
Deep Color off

Deep Color was already turned off on my system. Turning Super White seemed to help a bit. It seems that if I switch to the PS3 before it is turned on, the UMC struggles for a longer time to sync to it. Everything that triggers a resolution change (starting a 720p game while the main user interface is displayed in 1080p for instance) will trigger some video blinking. Usually not too long, sometimes for a long time. It is certainly the slowest HDMI sync I've experienced in my system for this device.

Regarding the audio: I also get loss of audio sync while in the main system interface if I leave the current selected item on something that does not play any audio for a while. Moving the current selection again will make the UMC miss the audio for a few seconds, then display again PCM 2 channels.

[stoopalini]

After changing the "HDMI Deep Color" PS3 setting from AUTO to OFF, it appears the HDMI sync issue is gone. I tested it twice, and everything seems to be working now. I hope it really is this simple and it doesn't show up again

Here is the description of this PS3 setting:

Deep Color™: HDMI 1.3 supports 30-bit, 36-bit and 48-bit (RGB or YCbCr) color depths, up from the 24-bit depths in previous versions of the HDMI specification.

• Lets HDTVs and other displays go from million of colors to billions of colors.
  
• Eliminates on-screen color banding, for smooth tonal transitions and subtle gradations between colors.
• Enables increased contrast ratio
• Can represent many times more shades of gray between black and white
• At 30-bit pixel depth, a four times improvement would be the minimum, and the typical improvement would be eight times or more.

Seems odd the UMC-200 won't support HDMI color greater than 24-bit, considering HDMI 1.3 brought support for 30,36 and 48-bit color.  Or is this strictly a compatibility issue between the PS3 and the UMC-200 with color greater than 24-bit, and other sources don't have an issue sending 30-bit+ ?

EDIT:  I did a bit more reading on deep color, and it appears it's really an option to provide greater than 8bit Chroma data, and is really a non-issue since source content is created using 8bit.  so I guess the PS3 gives the option to 'upconvert' to a higher bit, which apparently is done already by most display devices, so it's not necessary to have the feature turned on.

If it matters, I don't have the "slim" version of the PS3.

[boum]

I think it would only be relevant to have this option turned on when watching some content that actually uses this color encoding. I am not aware of any content that actually uses that, so we're not missing anything by turning this off.

Glad to read that your issue seem to be resolved. Do you still miss the first 3-4 click sounds when resuming navigating the UI after pausing on an item for a while? (pausing on a game will often play some sound, which will prevent the loss of audio sync). How smooth are the resolution changes?

[stoopalini]

Agreed, I don't think I'm missing anything by having this option turned off.

Yes, I still get the audio muting issue; but that's present with all sources, not just the PS3. The most annoying place is with the DiSH DVR, after FF through commercials. I constantly have to back it up because I've missed the first few seconds of dialogue due to the system taking time to unmute.

The resolution changes are much better. Still blacks out for a second or 2, but nothing unacceptable like when the Deep Color option was turned on.

[bay78]

I have been having some trouble with decoding issues (which I just posted on this forum). In trying to fix that issue, Emo support gave me the following settings for the PS3 to use. They did not solve my problem, but might help someone else.

On the main menu go to Sound Settings and press X. Select Audio Output Settings and press X. Select HDMI and press X. Select Manual and press X. This will give you a list of possible audio options. Make sure to check all of the following boxes:

Dolby Digital 5.1 CH
Dolby Digital Plus
Dolby True HD
DTS 5.1 Ch
DTS HD High Res Audio
DTS HD Master Audio

In addition to those settings make sure that the following settings are set under the appropriate menus. The for your Samsung please see the attached document for recommended settings.

Video Settings

BD/DVD upscaler normal
Video output Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr
Cinima Video
1080p 24Hz Off
Dynamic range Off
BD/DVD Audio out Bitstream

Display settings

Video output HDMI 1080p
Audio Auto
Cross Color off
RGB fullrange limited
Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr Supper white off
Deep Color off

Sound Settings

Audio Multi-output off

[boum]

Sorry to bring up this old thread, but I accidentally found a fix for my PS3 (the "fat" model) HDMI sync issues with the UMC-200. Previously, the UMC had a hard time when the PS3 powered up or changed resolutions. This was shown as no sound, and multiple cycles of very short video display followed by a blank screen. I bought a Monoprice HDMI splitter (product ID 8204) so I could connect my PS 3 to both the UMC-200 and my Lumagen Radiance XD video processor, which does not support 3D output.

Apparently the HDMI splitter strips HDCP - at least the Radiance reports that the signal from the HDMI splitter has HDCP disabled. My UMC-200 now instantly syncs to the PS 3 HDMI output every single time. Problem solved!

[novisnick]

boum, never be sorry for finding a fix to a problem! 8)
There will be grateful people here on the forum.

[bootman]

Mar 18, 2015 12:30:24 GMT -5 boum said:

Sorry to bring up this old thread, but I accidentally found a fix for my PS3 (the "fat" model) HDMI sync issues with the UMC-200. Previously, the UMC had a hard time when the PS3 powered up or changed resolutions. This was shown as no sound, and multiple cycles of very short video display followed by a blank screen. I bought a Monoprice HDMI splitter (product ID 8204) so I could connect my PS 3 to both the UMC-200 and my Lumagen Radiance XD video processor, which does not support 3D output.

Apparently the HDMI splitter strips HDCP - at least the Radiance reports that the signal from the HDMI splitter has HDCP disabled. My UMC-200 now instantly syncs to the PS 3 HDMI output every single time. Problem solved!

Whaaaaaaat? Copy protection was the cause of the issue? No way!

Since the UMC-200 doesn't process video, any change requires a renegotiation between the display and the source with the UMC in the middle left holding the bag when no one wants to answer the door. (handshaking is a two way thing)

Best to leave everything at a fixed resolution, a set audio, no fake color, etc to minimize these constant handshakes that are only part of the HDMI spec.

[boum]

I agree, but such a setup with a PS 3 implies severe limitations - basically you would need to force all output to the lowest common denominator, which is 720p, RGB output for most video games. Anyone reading here that is using the console for Blu-Ray playback too will most probably not want to do this. I would certainly not.

To be fair, this is a HDCP handshake issue from the UMC-200. My Radiance XD, my previous AVR (Onkyo TX-SR705), my previous video processor all had no problem with these handshakes.

[Deleted]

Unrelated to PS3 but still a handshake issue. I did find a fix to the audio delay with the UMC when playing DTV DVR (both old DVR & new Genie) after a pause or rewind the UMC would not play audio for 4-5 seconds sometimes more. I added a Toslink for audio. I talk to Lonnie about it and he suggested a new 1.4 HDMI cable, but didn't help.