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Post by altloff on Apr 12, 2016 21:45:09 GMT -5
Because..... Then what are you doing with the LFE channel, blending it into your mains? As stated above, that makes no sense because there's a 99.9% chance they're not positioned correctly, and the LFE channel has frequencies from 200-150hz and down in it. I do have towers that will play clean down to 30hz, I simply run them as Large, let those sounds be played from those channels and let my subs handle the 120hz and below LFE channel, simple as that, it's old school thinking, but I still prefer the sound that way. So including the sub you have 3 speakers playing down to 30, you must have them well positioned to avoid cancelation. Actually no, I'm a little insane, I have 6 that will play clean down to 30hz,Fronts, Wides, and Surrounds, my Center and Rears are only "Clean" down to 35hz, so I just back off slightly on the volume for the powered woofers on those. Then I let the 4 Subs play just LFE. Plus, non LFE channels aren't going to see much below 35hz anyway. No cancellation issues to speak of, but to be fair, I do my final tweaks by ear, to my liking, and don't bother checking after that, I simply like it to sound, the way I like it to sound, it's completely adjusted for my personal taste. But it's by no means bass heavy, I'm not running any of the Subs or powered woofers near their potential, and this system could easily go in a room twice the size of my 4800 cu/ft.
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Post by altloff on Apr 12, 2016 21:49:15 GMT -5
Because..... Then what are you doing with the LFE channel, blending it into your mains? As stated above, that makes no sense because there's a 99.9% chance they're not positioned correctly, and the LFE channel has frequencies from 200-150hz and down in it. I do have towers that will play clean down to 30hz, I simply run them as Large, let those sounds be played from those channels and let my subs handle the 120hz and below LFE channel, simple as that, it's old school thinking, but I still prefer the sound that way. There's a 150% chance my mains are positioned correctly. That's just because I chose to position them that way. LOL, mine too, but they're still not positioned correctly for Low Bass, like yours, just for me... although my fronts are positioned for center imaging....
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Post by altloff on Apr 12, 2016 21:56:48 GMT -5
Because..... Then what are you doing with the LFE channel, blending it into your mains? As stated above, that makes no sense because there's a 99.9% chance they're not positioned correctly, and the LFE channel has frequencies from 200-150hz and down in it. I do have towers that will play clean down to 30hz, I simply run them as Large, let those sounds be played from those channels and let my subs handle the 120hz and below LFE channel, simple as that, it's old school thinking, but I still prefer the sound that way. If I was in your shoes I'd set the towers to small and push the crossover down to 40ish hz.. But that's just me. And what has worked for me in the past. I was under the impression the LFE channel only had frequencies up to 120hz not 200 but I've been wrong before.. I may be off on that too, but somewhere in the back of my mind I thought that according to a reference spec, that the "channel" could contain frequencies as high as 200hz, but standard default cutoff is 120hz on AVR's and most Subs. (Although, some Subs will give you the option of up to 160hz for the LPF) I tried 40hz for a while, but just prefer Full Range, besides, since you won't see hardly any content below 35hz in the non-LFE channels, 40hz really isn't doing much, since it's crossover and not a hard cutoff.
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Post by gus4emo on Apr 12, 2016 22:32:49 GMT -5
So including the sub you have 3 speakers playing down to 30, you must have them well positioned to avoid cancelation. Actually no, I'm a little insane, I have 6 that will play clean down to 30hz,Fronts, Wides, and Surrounds, my Center and Rears are only "Clean" down to 35hz, so I just back off slightly on the volume for the powered woofers on those. Then I let the 4 Subs play just LFE. Plus, non LFE channels aren't going to see much below 35hz anyway. No cancellation issues to speak of, but to be fair, I do my final tweaks by ear, to my liking, and don't bother checking after that, I simply like it to sound, the way I like it to sound, it's completely adjusted for my personal taste. But it's by no means bass heavy, I'm not running any of the Subs or powered woofers near their potential, and this system could easily go in a room twice the size of my 4800 cu/ft. Just a little insane? LOL, Well I like that, whatever makes us happy...
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Post by altloff on Apr 12, 2016 23:01:52 GMT -5
Actually no, I'm a little insane, I have 6 that will play clean down to 30hz,Fronts, Wides, and Surrounds, my Center and Rears are only "Clean" down to 35hz, so I just back off slightly on the volume for the powered woofers on those. Then I let the 4 Subs play just LFE. Plus, non LFE channels aren't going to see much below 35hz anyway. No cancellation issues to speak of, but to be fair, I do my final tweaks by ear, to my liking, and don't bother checking after that, I simply like it to sound, the way I like it to sound, it's completely adjusted for my personal taste. But it's by no means bass heavy, I'm not running any of the Subs or powered woofers near their potential, and this system could easily go in a room twice the size of my 4800 cu/ft. Just a little insane? LOL, Well I like that, whatever makes us happy... That's what it says on my release paper's, and I'm holding the doctors to it.....
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Post by jmasterj on Apr 13, 2016 9:51:29 GMT -5
I use to have only one sub with my current system, back then I thought two subs were overkill keeping in mind I live in an apartment. Then my one sub went out, I decided to replace it with two, and to be honest to me the sound seems to be much more balanced and my set up actually lets them flank the speakers. I should mention that when I had my home I had dual subs stacked on top of each other set to cover different frequencies they really sounded good. That just brought to mind the fact that I didn't stack these I might try that in the not to distant future gee. I vote at least try dual subs if properly set up you will be surprised. I once asked how to get 2 subs to do different frequencies, I almost got shot, lol, I would like one to let's say go down to 30 and the other do 30 and down. I sort of thought this thread was over so I didn't check back sorry. Back when I had my dual subs stacked they were both Yamaha YST-SW 215's. I found the best location for the first one and it happened to be a corner which was perfect. I set the crossover frequency to the lowest possible setting on the first sub then I placed the second sub directly on top of the first sub. I then set the crossover for that second sub at a higher frequency setting than I set the first sub. This way together they covered a broader frequency range. One subs Phase switch was set to 0 the second subs phase was set to 160. I adjusted the volume of both subs until they smoothly integrated with the main speakers. This set up worked fine for most situations however there were rare occasions when the bass contained in the music was a bit overwhelming I'd simply turn one of the subs off, and just use one. Today I have dual JBL-ES 150's. They have a little more power than the Yamahas did but basically they are the same. The only difference today is I have the room to place one sub on each side. Everything else is virtually the same. I haven't tried stacking them yet too lazy. Besides I have them located where they sound balanced across the sound stage and I don't want to move them. I do plan to experiment with stacking them though.
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Post by garbulky on Apr 13, 2016 16:52:39 GMT -5
Exactly. A sub is designed to play from 120 down to 30 or lower. The main has to someone much more. So take that strain off he tower and let the sub handle the grunt Plus most times the best spot for the mains seldom is the best spot for the sub. Hence why a sub/sat system (setup that way) > full range towers no sub What he's doing is not unheard of. There are home theater systems where you do that. You have subs handle the 50 to 80 hz region. And then subs that handle below. I think n88dogg or edogg has several subs handling different frequency ranges.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2016 19:32:54 GMT -5
Exactly. A sub is designed to play from 120 down to 30 or lower. The main has to someone much more. So take that strain off he tower and let the sub handle the grunt Plus most times the best spot for the mains seldom is the best spot for the sub. Hence why a sub/sat system (setup that way) > full range towers no sub What he's doing is not unheard of. There are home theater systems where you do that. You have subs handle the 50 to 80 hz region. And then subs that handle below. I think n88dogg or edogg has several subs handling different frequency ranges. Nathan needed to have subs handle different frequencies as the ghorns need to be low passed at 60hz, apparently. To avoid the 70ish funk they have inherent to the design. sebastianr could give more insight on the ghorn though. But what gus is asking for such a narrow band 15-30 isn't what is common among guys running for separate frequencies. I'm going to be crossing my nearfield 15's at 50ish to avoid too much localization, I'll then use my 18's for the full lfe bandwidth and cross those over to some dayton pa460 drivers to give me the insane midbass punch I'm chasing.. they'll then be crossed over to my mains at 150ish. At least this is the plan, it works in theory but may sound like ass once I get it all hooked up in room..lol
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Post by pop on Apr 13, 2016 19:43:57 GMT -5
Dual subs always. Or in my case, one really huge ridiculous hulk smasher. That'll do the trick.
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Post by altloff on Apr 13, 2016 20:01:48 GMT -5
Regardless of all the possible overkill, it all still boils down to the basic rules.
1. Will 1 Sub be able to properly pressurize your space? (Entire open space, not just theatre area) 2. Do you only care about 1 or 2 seats? (Next to each other of course) 3. Can you place it where it needs to be?
If you answered No to any of those questions, you need more than one Sub to do it right.
My 4 create enough pressure in my room that during strong 25hz and below sounds, that you can feel your chest/lungs flutter, trying to deal with the sudden change.
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Post by simpleman68 on Apr 13, 2016 20:27:25 GMT -5
Every time I see this post I get this song in my head..... naturally, I feel compelled to share the joy. Scott
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Post by gus4emo on Apr 13, 2016 21:21:33 GMT -5
I once asked how to get 2 subs to do different frequencies, I almost got shot, lol, I would like one to let's say go down to 30 and the other do 30 and down. I sort of thought this thread was over so I didn't check back sorry. Back when I had my dual subs stacked they were both Yamaha YST-SW 215's. I found the best location for the first one and it happened to be a corner which was perfect. I set the crossover frequency to the lowest possible setting on the first sub then I placed the second sub directly on top of the first sub. I then set the crossover for that second sub at a higher frequency setting than I set the first sub. This way together they covered a broader frequency range. One subs Phase switch was set to 0 the second subs phase was set to 160. I adjusted the volume of both subs until they smoothly integrated with the main speakers. This set up worked fine for most situations however there were rare occasions when the bass contained in the music was a bit overwhelming I'd simply turn one of the subs off, and just use one. Today I have dual JBL-ES 150's. They have a little more power than the Yamahas did but basically they are the same. The only difference today is I have the room to place one sub on each side. Everything else is virtually the same. I haven't tried stacking them yet too lazy. Besides I have them located where they sound balanced across the sound stage and I don't want to move them. I do plan to experiment with stacking them though. Please let us know how it goes.
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Post by pop on Apr 13, 2016 22:15:10 GMT -5
With my PSA V3600i, I could pressurize the neighbors house. Would I still add another one? of course, and I WILL!
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Post by yves on Apr 14, 2016 5:55:04 GMT -5
Regardless of all the possible overkill, it all still boils down to the basic rules. 1. Will 1 Sub be able to properly pressurize your space? (Entire open space, not just theatre area) 2. Do you only care about 1 or 2 seats? (Next to each other of course) 3. Can you place it where it needs to be? If you answered No to any of those questions, you need more than one Sub to do it right. My 4 create enough pressure in my room that during strong 25hz and below sounds, that you can feel your chest/lungs flutter, trying to deal with the sudden change. TBH I think you forgot the most important question, "Do you think you can beat the laws of physics?"
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