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Post by Boomzilla on Apr 25, 2016 13:11:48 GMT -5
Assuming a separate system for stereo...
FACTOIDS:
We don't listen to movies loudly and deliberately squash the dynamic range when we do.
The room doesn't need (or like) room correction.
The source, an Oppo BDP-105, does a good job of decoding audio & upscaling video.
The video display is handled by a brand new SUHD Samsung 65" with HDMI 2.2a & 4K up-conversion.
OPTIONS:
In a nutshell - two.
Option 1: Buy the cheapest AVR on the market & replace it every two years (avoids obsolescence and ensures latest features)
Option 2: Buy the best AVR on the market & keep it till the wheels fall off (provides best sound quality)
There is no option three (separates) because I don't want to spend the living room real estate for both a stereo & a complex AV system. Live with it.
On the table for the moment are:
Yamaha RX-V381 ($279 plus tax) - The preferred Option 1 solution...
Arcam FMJ-550 ($3,400 plus tax) - The preferred Option 2 solution...
Your recommendation (and why)?
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Which AVR?
Apr 25, 2016 13:45:05 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by stads77 on Apr 25, 2016 13:45:05 GMT -5
Does the AV need to have 4K? If not I would find a used (Craigslist)AV from the past 4 years with preouts (just in case...)and spend $100-200.
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Post by garbulky on Apr 25, 2016 14:04:01 GMT -5
Hold on. Let's be clear about what we are talking about here. We are talking about only one more box with separates. That's about it.
And remember an AVR can be twice as big as a separates to accomodate the amps so it's not really one less box. It's one less box and then your AVR box is twice as big. So no huge gains in real estate in my opinion.
And this is really how you want to go with all this. Otherwise you have to match the amps in your very good XPA-2 with some p*ss poor junk running the center and surrounds from the AVR's wimpy amps (and DACS).
I say wait and see what the EMERSA line has to offer you in terms of standalone pre pro. Then buy another XSP-1. Because that's the onyl unit that can integrate the two channel and multichannel satisfactorily without having you jump through hoops and compromises.
Then buy a used UPA-500.
So you need XSP-1. Whatever Emotiva is about to come out with from EMERSA, UPA-500. Toss the AVR - there's no point to it.
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Post by Boomzilla on Apr 25, 2016 14:46:12 GMT -5
So let's see -
Stand-alone Emersa processor (one box)
XPA-2 (second box)
XPA-1 (third box)
Surround amp (fourth box)
Oppo disc player (fifth box)
Cable box (sixth box)
Power conditioner (seventh box)
Stereo preamp (eighth box)
Tube buffer (ninth box)
Ethernet switch (tenth box)
TV hub box (eleventh box)
Need I go on?
Now remember - each of these has power cable, signal cable(s), and some require HDMI cables, ethernet cables, and trigger cables.
This is EXACTLY the mess I'm trying to dispense with!
I understand what you're saying, Gar, but you missed the main point of the thread. I want to SIMPLIFY this system. And no, AVR's need not be huge. For movie use, a single AVR is sufficient, thank you.
And having stereo pre-outs on the processor does not an audiophile-quality stereo preamp make!
As to Stads77's question - no - the AVR need not be 4K capable. I'm perfectly happy running the Oppo's video output directly to the TV. But the proposed solution (buy a cheap, older AVR) has its own set of problems. Take, for example, my current HK-AVR -
The HDMI input won't take audio information - Audio from the Oppo must arrive at the HK by optical TOSLINK, by coaxial digital, or by analog inputs (which then get re-digitized by the HK).
Any Blu-Ray audio is automatically shifted to lower resolution - the optical / coaxial inputs won't handle uncompressed audio streams.
The HK doesn't have audio decoding for the latest CODECs & may "do it's best" with unpredictable results.
In short, the thing is the limiting factor on multiple fronts.
A newer AVR is needed. Period.
The two options presented in the original post are mature and thoroughly-considered options. A hybrid stereo / AV system is NOT what I want. I don't want my XPA-2 in the system while watching movies. I don't want any part of the AVR in the system while listening to stereo. If I wanted a hybrid, I'd buy a XMC-1 and an additional XPA-3. Not on my event horizon, thanks.
So back to the original question - buy a cheap AVR & replace it often or buy a "good" AVR (an oxymoron, I'm beginning to think) for 10X the price & be stuck with it for 9 of the next 10 years after it's obsolete?
I'm thinking that even the BEST AVR in the world won't come close to my stereo separates...
Suck me raw with a breast pump if I'm wrong.
Boom
PS: Not trying to be grouchy - I understand the urge to quality in all things, and I appreciate the feedback. So please don't take my comments as a rebuke. I value the input (really). But a complex HT system is exactly what I'm trying to avoid. The urge to AVR in the first place is born of past experience with world-class-sized rats-nests of wiring. Yes, I could tidy the wires, but as often as I hook up new equipment, I'd find myself undoing them again in an unacceptably short time. If I sound tetchy, I apologize.
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Post by garbulky on Apr 25, 2016 15:34:12 GMT -5
So let's see - Stand-alone Emersa processor (one box) XPA-2 (second box) XPA-1 (third box) Surround amp (fourth box) Oppo disc player (fifth box) Cable box (sixth box) Power conditioner (seventh box) Stereo preamp (eighth box) Tube buffer (ninth box) Ethernet switch (tenth box) TV hub box (eleventh box) Need I go on? Boom What do you mean you'll have a separate two channel and AVR? Are the two systems going to be hooked up to the same speakers somehow? Are they going to be in separate rooms? |
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Post by chaosrv on Apr 25, 2016 15:38:11 GMT -5
What is it you are trying to get from the AVR? What "bells & whistles" exactly?
You don't want room correction, so there is no need to pay for it.
From what I have read, you aren't likely to implement an Atmos or other audio solution that requires height speakers... so you don't need an AVR to do that. I believe they "default" to True HD or DTS Mater Audio which the Oppo can decode.
What sources will you be using other than the Oppo itself and the cable box?
Honestly, I would consider hooking the Oppo directly to the amps/tube buffer.
The only issue I see with the Oppo is the digital volume control but if you're plugging it into a cheap AVR you're probably still getting a digital volume control or if not other shortcomings in the AVR design that would still make the audio similar or worse than the Oppo's digital volume. Plus, if you're compressing the dynamic range as you stated, you likely wouldn't notice the difference.
If you have more sources, get an HDMI switch and plug that into the Oppo input.
You can pick one up for next to nothing on monoprice.
If your concern is single-box amplification, you could go for a G2 XPA-5 before they sell out. Or...while I have not heard them, you could try the new XPA Gen-3 in a 5 or 7 channel config, perhaps something else from say Outlaw or even monoprice's new Monolith offering.
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Post by Boomzilla on Apr 25, 2016 15:51:13 GMT -5
Thanks, amigos - good points, all. You're right, chaosrv, I don't want or need room correction. What I'd like, ideally, would be: A combination CD / Blu-Ray / 4K / AVR that had sonics as good as state of the art separates. One box, one love! Again, if I'm wishing, I'd want all speakers to be wireless & powered from their own wall-sockets. Transmitters to be built into the one box & the individual speakers. The main controller would have its own Ethernet switch with several ports, a generous number of (and card-upgradable) HDMI inputs & outputs, and a full-featured iPad remote control. The box would be small enough (and electrically efficient enough) to be out-of-sight, out-of-mind until needed. It would also need to have USB-3 connectivity to external drives (holding media libraries) formatted in ANY format (Unix, Linux, OS-X, Windoze, etc.) and be able to read them without needing access to a computer. Of course, while wishing, I might as well wish for a nude supermodel to come install it all too!  |
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Post by chaosrv on Apr 25, 2016 15:55:18 GMT -5
If only such a thing were real..
Still sounds like you don't actually need the AVR, to me.
And lovely picture, by the way.
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Post by Boomzilla on Apr 25, 2016 16:02:24 GMT -5
I aim to please! LOL
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Post by Boomzilla on Apr 25, 2016 16:06:56 GMT -5
What do you mean you'll have a separate two channel and AVR? Are the two systems going to be hooked up to the same speakers somehow? Are they going to be in separate rooms? For stereo, the Oppo's analog XLR outs will go to a preamp & then to the XPA-2. Axiom M-100s & Subs active. For HT, the Oppo's HDMI out (#2) will go to an AVR. To watch a movie, I'll unplug the XPA-2 wires (at the Axioms) & plug in the AVR's R/L Front wires. The Center & Surround channels will remain connected to the AVR at all times. For movie use, no subs active (yes, I know it's heresy), but the wife doesn't like loud impacts during movies & the big Axioms are sufficient. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Apr 25, 2016 16:26:46 GMT -5
After further reading, I'm leaning toward the entry-level Yamaha RX-V381. Lots of tech goodness for $279.
4K Ultra HD support
Dolby True-HD support
DTS-HD Master Audio support
(lacks Atmos & DTS:X)
Built in Bluetooth
HDCP 2.2 (four in - one out)
Probably sounds like squat, but for movies, I'm not that picky.
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Post by Gary Cook on Apr 25, 2016 16:35:50 GMT -5
Oppo + a pair of Airmoive 6's, done.
Cheers
Gary
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Post by garbulky on Apr 25, 2016 16:43:16 GMT -5
What do you mean you'll have a separate two channel and AVR? Are the two systems going to be hooked up to the same speakers somehow? Are they going to be in separate rooms? For stereo, the Oppo's analog XLR outs will go to a preamp & then to the XPA-2. Axiom M-100s & Subs active. For HT, the Oppo's HDMI out (#2) will go to an AVR. To watch a movie, I'll unplug the XPA-2 wires (at the Axioms) & plug in the AVR's R/L Front wires. The Center & Surround channels will remain connected to the AVR at all times. For movie use, no subs active (yes, I know it's heresy), but the wife doesn't like loud impacts during movies & the big Axioms are sufficient. You'd rather switch around wires on the back of two speakers than Use the Oppo 105 multichannel ouptuts in to a UPA-500 The latter choice only requires a UPA-500 in place of the AVR. The UPA-500 will likely be smaller than the AVR too. |
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Post by repeetavx on Apr 25, 2016 16:51:52 GMT -5
You should have started a poll. I vote for option 1.
There's no way your going to get your moneys worth of sound in a all in one solution.
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Post by Boomzilla on Apr 25, 2016 16:58:24 GMT -5
...Use the Oppo 105 multichannel ouptuts in to a UPA-500. The latter choice only requires a UPA-500 in place of the AVR. The UPA-500 will likely be smaller than the AVR too. Might be... Reduces the box count too! XPA-5, maybe? Other options? |
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Post by brutiarti on Apr 25, 2016 17:03:05 GMT -5
I will use a different set of smaller front speakers for the avr, maybe in wall speakers. So you dont touch your 2 ch setup, just my 2 cents
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Which AVR?
Apr 25, 2016 17:18:11 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Jim on Apr 25, 2016 17:18:11 GMT -5
WTF? Emotiva doesn't offer free shipping on their products any more? Where do you see that? I started a checkout but didn't do all the steps. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Apr 25, 2016 17:22:11 GMT -5
Going the other way - minimum cash output...
Already have the Oppo - does both audio & video processing
Already have the XPA-2 - R/L front channels covered
Already have a Mini-X - R/L rear channels covered
Need a small mono amp for center & HT is complete... (SMSL 2x160 WPC amp from Parts-Express = $104?) (second Mini-X?)
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Post by garbulky on Apr 25, 2016 17:31:54 GMT -5
Where do you see that? I started a checkout but didn't do all the steps. I decided to try the XPA-5 on Gar's recommendation, but they wanted $79 extra for shipping! THAT's new... Oh woah! You know you are trying their modular XPA-5s right? They are tremendously expensive. I would just get a used UPA-500 minimum cash needed. You rarely watch movies anyway and it's better than the mini-x. You could get those for about $300. |
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Post by monkumonku on Apr 25, 2016 17:36:04 GMT -5
Where do you see that? I started a checkout but didn't do all the steps. I decided to try the XPA-5 on Gar's recommendation, but they wanted $79 extra for shipping! THAT's new... Info page says shipping is free in the lower 48. Did you enter all of your information so they know you are in the continental U.S.? Or are you shipping to some secret offshore location?  emotiva.com/help/faqs/shipping-usa |
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