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Post by AudioHTIT on Apr 27, 2016 4:24:24 GMT -5
... They claim that the generation 3 ones are even better, but at approximately 2x the cost for a Generation 3 over a Generation 2, I opted to go with the older amp. ... More accurately 20% higher $/Watt or 50% higher XPA-5 G2 to XPA-5 G3 ... Of course, if Emotiva would like to send me a Generation 3 five-channel amp to review (in a side-by-side shootout with the older XPA-5), I'd not turn it down - and who knows, they might even sell the thing to me! ... Wouldn't a 30 day trial let you do that?
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Post by Boomzilla on Apr 27, 2016 8:36:22 GMT -5
...Wouldn't a 30 day trial let you do that? Yes, it would, but I wouldn't feel right about buying a product to write a review (that I'd get paid for) and then returning it. If the manufacturer wants to send the product for a review at their expense, knowing it is a review sample, then that's different. it's a matter of ethics. I wouldn't want the manufacturer to think that they'd made a sale - then get the return - and then read a paid review of that product. I have written reviews of products that I'd already bought, but there was no intention of returning them after the review. I also can't keep "review products" as gifts from the manufacturer (nor buy them at reduced cost). This creates a potential conflict of interest. I enjoy writing reviews, but it's best if both the manufacturer and the reviewer both clearly understand that that is exactly what's happening. I hate to sound overly picky, but I don't want any impropriety or even the appearance of such. If only politicians felt the same way... Boom
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Post by yves on Apr 27, 2016 14:27:56 GMT -5
I didn't vote your poll because I tend to agree the best AVR value is no AVR at all. (The biggest reason why I prefer the UMC-200 over the Oppo player is the UMC-200 all-analog preamp section).
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Post by Boomzilla on Apr 27, 2016 14:43:21 GMT -5
Many (including I) agree with you yves! In general, separates provide better sound for a number of reasons: The physical separation of (low current & voltage) preamp signals from (high current & voltage) power amp signals makes for a less noisy signal path. The additional money spent on power amp transformer, capacitors, and output devices improves speaker control. Having a separate processor allows for upgrades without having to replace all the power amps as well (although it could be argued that the economy of scale in AVRs offsets this particular financial "advantage"). But having said that, there are special circumstances when the AVR may be sufficient. My particular usage would allow an AVR if I wanted one, but since I have to have a Blu-Ray player anyway, I'm still at a minimum of two boxes on the equipment shelf, no matter what. Since my Oppo already does most functions that a processor would, I finally opted to make the second box a power amp only rather than an AVR. But in the future, should someone offer an "all-in-one" box that had equivalent sonic performance, I'd be interested. Maybe Meridian? Cheers!
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Post by yves on Apr 27, 2016 17:46:14 GMT -5
Many (including I) agree with you yves ! In general, separates provide better sound for a number of reasons: The physical separation of (low current & voltage) preamp signals from (high current & voltage) power amp signals makes for a less noisy signal path. The additional money spent on power amp transformer, capacitors, and output devices improves speaker control. Having a separate processor allows for upgrades without having to replace all the power amps as well (although it could be argued that the economy of scale in AVRs offsets this particular financial "advantage"). But having said that, there are special circumstances when the AVR may be sufficient. My particular usage would allow an AVR if I wanted one, but since I have to have a Blu-Ray player anyway, I'm still at a minimum of two boxes on the equipment shelf, no matter what. Since my Oppo already does most functions that a processor would, I finally opted to make the second box a power amp only rather than an AVR. But in the future, should someone offer an "all-in-one" box that had equivalent sonic performance, I'd be interested. Maybe Meridian? Cheers! Blu-ray player with better than Oppo sonic performance IMO: +
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Post by Boomzilla on Apr 27, 2016 18:14:03 GMT -5
A "blu-ray player" that doesn't play discs?
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Post by Percussionista on Apr 27, 2016 19:05:05 GMT -5
And I find it VERY interesting that voters are virtually tied on the question of buying a "throwaway" AVR vs. spending 10x for a "good" one. What does one REALLY get by spending lots more?... I have the same dilemma regarding the processor part of an AVR. I will continue to maintain my separates, so the question is will I be getting the eventual EMP-1 or an upgraded XMC-1 by the end of the year (give or take)? Everyone says the audio in the XCM-1 is stellar, some even saying everything is clearer - which for me is very important for center channel (I currently have a UMC-200). So, if the XMC-1 is updated for full 4K compatibility, HDR and all, I might just jump on that wagon, figuring 4K et. al. is going to carry me for a long long time. 8K? pullease, I'll be happy to downgrade back to 4K ;-) The other way is the less than half as much EMP-1, assuming it will have all the 4K requirements. Will it be good enough? I can't imagine drooling over anything much beyond the HDR/Dolby vision 4K TV sets coming out, so the question is really on the audio side. Regarding using an Oppo as a pre-pro, I like the idea as a backup if the actual preprocessor needs to be fixed. I have a 103, so not quite as "top end" audio-wise as the 105, but the main objections I have to using the Oppo all the time are (1) You can only define a single cross-over point, so this works best with very similar speakers all around, and (2) selecting those extra inputs (TV provider, et. al.) is clumsy. Perhaps they will make the newer 4K Oppos with stuff like that better worked out.
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Post by Gary Cook on Apr 27, 2016 19:12:38 GMT -5
an upgraded XMC-1 by the end of the year (give or take)? Everyone says the audio in the XCM-1 is stellar, some even saying everything is clearer - which for me is very important for center channel (I currently have a UMC-200). So, if the XMC-1 is updated for full 4K compatibility, HDR and all, I might just jump on that wagon, figuring 4K et. al. is going to carry me for a long long time. +1 Great minds think alike Cheers Gary
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Post by Boomzilla on Apr 28, 2016 4:51:35 GMT -5
Alas - nobody seems to make inexpensive, but high-quality processors (and that's the part of an AVR that becomes obsolete). It's cheaper to buy an AVR with pre-outs for its processor section and then replace it when it (quickly) becomes obsolete.
One would think that the big companies would wise up & make AVR-priced processors. After all, the power amp section of an AVR is a significant part of its cost. If the makers offered only the processor section (at a price equal to or less than the whole AVR), I think they'd have a market.
But, as always, I could be wrong...
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Post by Boomzilla on Apr 28, 2016 8:22:43 GMT -5
And finally (really, really...) any bets on whether the Oppo to the XPA-5 (via a tube buffer) will provide sufficient stereo sound or whether I'll need to opt (again) for either a preamp or processor in place of the buffer?
I'm hoping (based on my pleasure with the Generation 2 XPA-2 and with the Yaqin SD-CD3 tube buffer) that the XPA-5 and the same buffer will provide audio nirvana. But if not, where to now, Saint Peter? I may not be a Christian, but I've done all one man can...
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hemster
Global Moderator
Particle Manufacturer
...still listening... still watching
Posts: 51,921
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Post by hemster on Apr 28, 2016 9:19:51 GMT -5
....But if not, where to now, Saint Peter? I may not be a Christian, but I've done all one man can... Saint Peter bellows in his best ethereal heavenly voice: "You know where to now, Boom... the next flea market!"
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Post by yves on Apr 29, 2016 14:04:39 GMT -5
A "blu-ray player" that doesn't play discs? As a matter of fact, a HTPC that has access to a Blu-ray drive unit (directly or via the home network) can be used for a whole lot more than just playing the discs. Ripping the disc takes a bit of extra patience of course, but IMO it is worth it for being able to simply skip the warnings, ads, and trailers alone. And besides, for stereo music listening, a separate stereo DAC worth its salt will give the Oppo player a very nice run for its money. www.redfox.bz/anydvdhd.html
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Post by Boomzilla on Apr 29, 2016 15:55:09 GMT -5
I've tried multiple "DACs worth their salt" including:
Jolida tube FX Lightspeed DAC Emotiva XDA-1 Emotiva XDA-2 Emotiva Stealth DC-1 Audioquest Dragonflies 1 & 2 and at least that many more that I've forgotten
Some were as good as the Oppo, most were worse, and some were MUCH worse. Don't go knocking the BDP-105's DAC - it can sound amazing - or not, depending on the associated equipment.
Although I'll use JRiver Media Center 21 on a Mac as a music server, I'm profoundly NOT interested in ripping video under any circumstances. It's of questionable legality and not worth the trouble & storage issues. YMMV
HT is aggravating enough without getting a (*&^*&^%^_(* PC involved.
Boom
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