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Post by Casey Leedom on Nov 28, 2016 19:32:54 GMT -5
Thanks for the email address. I've contacted them and they've responded saying that:
So I'll contact Emotiva to see if I can interest them in this. There's a "Roon Ready SDK" so it shouldn't be too hard ... The guy at Roon who got back to me offered to help out if there's any interest at Emotiva.
Casey
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Post by jdubs on Dec 1, 2016 13:44:29 GMT -5
I had multiple issues with Roon, including 2 different resolution problems, missing Tidal tracks/albums/info, and needing to restart to get audio back. I ended up with a AURALiC Altair that works nicely. I had high hopes for Roon, but it didn't work out well for me.
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Post by Loop 7 on Dec 1, 2016 14:51:44 GMT -5
I had multiple issues with Roon, including 2 different resolution problems, missing Tidal tracks/albums/info, and needing to restart to get audio back. I ended up with a AURALiC Altair that works nicely. I had high hopes for Roon, but it didn't work out well for me. Based on discussions on other forums, it seems the AURALiC Altair offers one of the best TIDAL implementations on the market.
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Post by jdubs on Dec 1, 2016 15:25:06 GMT -5
I had multiple issues with Roon, including 2 different resolution problems, missing Tidal tracks/albums/info, and needing to restart to get audio back. I ended up with a AURALiC Altair that works nicely. I had high hopes for Roon, but it didn't work out well for me. Based on discussions on other forums, it seems the AURALiC Altair offers one of the best TIDAL implementations on the market. Yeah, bought it on a whim with the promise I could return it if I didn't like it. Once I had it up and running, I knew it was all over. I cancelled my Roon trial. To Roon's credit, they offered to extend my trial and work on resolving my issues. I already had a solution with the Altair, however.
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Post by wilburthegoose on Dec 1, 2016 15:28:16 GMT -5
I've upped my Roon "investment" Bought a Samsung Galaxy Tab A for my home office, essentially to control Roon. I love their product more and more every day. An Emotiva product that supports Roon would be blissful (Although I actually play my Roon thru my XMC-1 via PC perfectly already) PS - I don't use Tidal, so I can't speak to its integration.
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Post by Casey Leedom on Dec 1, 2016 16:12:12 GMT -5
So far no contact back from Emotiva regarding the idea of going "Roon Ready". I sent a note to Emotiva Customer Service saying that I could perform introductions to Roon Labs for them. But Customer Service is probably the wrong contact to use so I'll have to see if I can find another avenue in. I know that Keith said recently on the RMC-1 thread that Emotiva had no current plans to do direct streaming of digital audio over Ethernet so it may not be an interesting idea for them yet.
One really interesting option would be for Emotive to just implement the Squeeze API since Roon supports that as well. That would allow either Roon or Squeeze Server to stream to an RMC-1 ...
Casey
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Post by Loop 7 on Dec 1, 2016 18:30:07 GMT -5
I've upped my Roon "investment" Bought a Samsung Galaxy Tab A for my home office, essentially to control Roon. I love their product more and more every day. An Emotiva product that supports Roon would be blissful (Although I actually play my Roon thru my XMC-1 via PC perfectly already) PS - I don't use Tidal, so I can't speak to its integration. A reasonably priced streamer with quality Roon endpoint capability would likely motivate a purchase on my end.
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Post by Casey Leedom on Dec 1, 2016 19:21:29 GMT -5
Depends on what "reasonably priced" means ... A friend of mine bought the Teac NT-503 for $1,000 and is very pleased with it. It features AKM AK4490 DACs and supports DSDs natively. Right now he's feeding it with a Mac Mini via USB and Roon Server/Endpoint software on the Mac Mini. Apparently Teac is going to come out with new Firmware at some point which will allow it to operate directly as a Roon Endpoint. Of course, with the Roon Server/Endpoint software on almost any computer (Windows, Linux, Mac OS/X) and a DAC that takes USB, you could do the same. Of course that would require having a computer co-located with your DAC ... Casey
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Post by wilburthegoose on Dec 1, 2016 19:45:57 GMT -5
Yep- I have my (quiet) PC connected to my XMC-1. Works great.
Plus, I can play music in my bedroom thru an AppleTV up there, and in my home office on my Denon-AVR4311 (Air Play).
You don't need a $2K DAC for Roon.
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Post by saru on Dec 2, 2016 1:06:22 GMT -5
I've been using Roon for about a couple months now, after reading all the glowing hype. So far I really like it; I run RoonServer on my Mac mini that passes to my Gumby directly via USB and to my Denon AVR in the living room as well as my AppleTV in the theater via AirPlay. Everything is controlled via the iPhone/iPad RoonRemote apps (the iPhone app is a bit limited in functionality but is serviceable, whereas the iPad app appears to be fully-featured). As a Tidal subscriber, it's a really nice option to have both streaming and network-storage content at my fingertips in such an attractive interface.
I too had been looking for an inexpensive Roon Ready streamer to use in place of the AppleTV to pass to the XMC-1, and I read enough positive feedback on the Sonore microRendu ($640 w/o PSU) that I figured I'd take the plunge and try it out... should be arriving on Monday. There are also cheaper-still Raspberry Pi options for building DIY Roon endpoints; I might try to put together one of those kits someday for comparison's sake with the microRendu.
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Post by yves on Dec 2, 2016 4:37:33 GMT -5
Depends on what "reasonably priced" means ... A friend of mine bought the Teac NT-503 for $1,000 and is very pleased with it. It features AKM AK4490 DACs and supports DSDs natively. Right now he's feeding it with a Mac Mini via USB and Roon Server/Endpoint software on the Mac Mini. Apparently Teac is going to come out with new Firmware at some point which will allow it to operate directly as a Roon Endpoint. Of course, with the Roon Server/Endpoint software on almost any computer (Windows, Linux, Mac OS/X) and a DAC that takes USB, you could do the same. Of course that would require having a computer co-located with your DAC ... Casey Less frills, more DAC has been my kind of filosophy for the past 5 years. Adding a built-in streamer in a DAC just means less bang for the buck sonically to those who don't need streaming, and, if I may be so bold to say so sir, spending $1k on a DAC that uses AK4990 chips sounds like another clear ripoff due to the obvious lack in Dynamic Range that can be had from these chips at that particular price point. (I know all listening is subjective so in the end it's about personal preference, but there can be added only so much pixi dust to cover up the mediocre specs and, like the great famous Clint Eastwood said in the movie, a man has got to know his limitations). For a few dollars more, I will sell you the notion that the $0 price tag of foobar2000 is highly compatible with description of "reasonably priced" ...
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Post by Casey Leedom on Dec 2, 2016 5:53:31 GMT -5
The $1K Teac NT-503 is actually my friend's. But I had thought that the AKM AK4490EQ was fairly highly regarded, isn't it? Just curious myself since I'm just "spinning up" on DACs ...
Casey
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Post by yves on Dec 2, 2016 8:19:04 GMT -5
The $1K Teac NT-503 is actually my friends. But I had thought that the AKM AK4490EQ was fairly highly regarded, isn't it? Just curious myself since I'm just "spinning up" on DACs ... Casey I would opine the AK449 7EQ can sonically perform reasonably well at best, whereas the AK449 0EQ is nothing all that special. Most people IMO don't understand that the implementation matters a lot more than the chip itself, let alone HOW it matters.
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Post by vneal on Dec 2, 2016 8:53:55 GMT -5
Heard good things about Roon. Using Tidal and Spotify and VTuner thru my Sony HAP Z1 ES TB1. Tidal sounds better.Spotify is easier to use. With these 3 services and internal and external hard drives of 1 TB and 3TB I am set for music Also listen to CD and LPs once in a great moon
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Post by Loop 7 on Dec 2, 2016 11:21:37 GMT -5
I'm one of the minority who believes the software playback engines in these various library, playback and distribution apps are different. Before Roon, I had used Amarra for a few years and truly believed it sounded better than not using an add-on app. The big players seem to be Amarra, Audirvana, BitPerfect, Jriver, PureMusic, etc. but I think Roon's is also excellent.
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Post by Casey Leedom on Dec 2, 2016 14:08:34 GMT -5
I would opine the AK449 7EQ can sonically perform reasonably well at best, whereas the AK449 0EQ is nothing all that special. Most people IMO don't understand that the implementation matters a lot more than the chip itself, let alone HOW it matters. Huh, I guess there's a lot of subtleties with DACs. I'm not sure my hearing is good enough any more to allow me to tell the difference. Mostly I've been hoping to come up with some way to get the digital data into the RMC-1 (which Dan has said will use a "high-end AKM DAC") and have it render the analog at the last point possible before sending it off to the Amplifier. I figure that I'm best off with the shortest analog signal path possible. Right now I'm using an ageing SqueezeBox Touch, but I know that's going to fail some day. So I was hoping something like Roon might be a solution. Ideally, it would seem, if only from a "box count" perspective, it would be nice if the RMC-1 itself were simply "Roon Ready" and offered a "Roon End Point". But I suppose that something that would stream it into the RMC-1's USB would be a good second choice. The only downside being that there don't seem to be any truly reasonable Ethernet-to-USB Roon End Point solutions. (The microRendu seems to be over-priced and of exceptionally suspect build quality[1,2].) I could start down the road of trying to cons up my own Raspberry PI solution, but that just seems like too much work. Hopefully either Roon or something similar will become so popular and prevalent that it gets incorporated into the RMC-1 or some future processor ... Casey [1] Sonore MicroRendu Hardware Tear Down/Review audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/sonore-microrendu-hardware-tear-down-review.770/[2] Measurements of Sonore microRendu Streamer audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/measurements-of-sonore-microrendu-streamer.577/
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Post by wilburthegoose on Dec 2, 2016 16:06:46 GMT -5
I'm one of the minority who believes the software playback engines in these various library, playback and distribution apps are different. Before Roon, I had used Amarra for a few years and truly believed it sounded better than not using an add-on app. The big players seem to be Amarra, Audirvana, BitPerfect, Jriver, PureMusic, etc. but I think Roon's is also excellent. I actually just deleted JRiver from my PC last week in favor of Roon. JRiver is, no doubt, very nice. But Roon is a paradigm shift for me.
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Post by yves on Dec 2, 2016 21:41:19 GMT -5
I would opine the AK449 7EQ can sonically perform reasonably well at best, whereas the AK449 0EQ is nothing all that special. Most people IMO don't understand that the implementation matters a lot more than the chip itself, let alone HOW it matters. Huh, I guess there's a lot of subtleties with DACs. I'm not sure my hearing is good enough any more to allow me to tell the difference. Mostly I've been hoping to come up with some way to get the digital data into the RMC-1 (which Dan has said will use a "high-end AKM DAC") and have it render the analog at the last point possible before sending it off to the Amplifier. I figure that I'm best off with the shortest analog signal path possible. Right now I'm using an ageing SqueezeBox Touch, but I know that's going to fail some day. So I was hoping something like Roon might be a solution. Ideally, it would seem, if only from a "box count" perspective, it would be nice if the RMC-1 itself were simply "Roon Ready" and offered a "Roon End Point". But I suppose that something that would stream it into the RMC-1's USB would be a good second choice. The only downside being that there don't seem to be any truly reasonable Ethernet-to-USB Roon End Point solutions. (The microRendu seems to be over-priced and of exceptionally suspect build quality[1,2].) I could start down the road of trying to cons up my own Raspberry PI solution, but that just seems like too much work. Hopefully either Roon or something similar will become so popular and prevalent that it gets incorporated into the RMC-1 or some future processor ... Casey [1] Sonore MicroRendu Hardware Tear Down/Review audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/sonore-microrendu-hardware-tear-down-review.770/[2] Measurements of Sonore microRendu Streamer audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/measurements-of-sonore-microrendu-streamer.577/One major problem especially with DACs and digital audio is the counter intuitive observation that if a certain distortion looks to be completely negligible on paper, despite that, it can have a profound impact on what we hear. On that forum website that you linked to, there's this guy named John Kenny who once started a discussion thread about the complex subject of Auditory Scene Analysis. The tar and feathers that this guy has received on there are rock solid evidence in support of how some people just aren't ready to accept one of the strongest logical conclusions engendered by this kind of valuable auditory neuroscientific research: it's the conclusion of "if you are going to study a river, do you take out a bucket of water and stare at it on the shore?" I think USB DACs have become popular and prevalent because computers are popular and prevalent. But computers these days also have HDMI, and as of HDMI ver. 2.0 the audio clock no longer has to be tied to the video (TDMS) clock so the road to proper multichannel audio playback over HDMI is now open, which is a good thing because I hate smart DAC products just like I hate smart TVs: these socalled "smart" features are merely a literal insult to my intelligence because hooking up a computer that satisfies MY hardware/software requirements is what renders them as useless to me as a proverbial fifth wheel on the wagon.
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Post by gld3gld3 on Jan 17, 2017 5:11:19 GMT -5
I have been using Roon for about a month now after receiving a 60 day trial with the purchase of an Audioquest Dragonfly Black. I am, overall, very pleased with it! The user interface on the Desktop app is the best that I have used. Setup was very simple. I installed Roon bridge on my Linux music server in a matter of minutes and had it set up to be controlled by my phone (Android) and Windows desktop computer very quickly. There are many helpful user settings and setting things up for best audio quality was a breeze. Tidal integration has also been great. How did the system sound after installing Roon? Well, all I can say is that it sounds no worse then my previous Linux server setup, which sounded great!
Have I had any bad experiences with Roon software thus far? Absolutely, but mostly with the Roon controller app for Android. I believe this is one of the areas where Roon really should step up their game. My main issues have been: 1) Scrolling through long lists of artists or albums is slow and not very smooth. There is no speed scrolling and the UI gets very jumpy. Also, photos of artists are often distorted. 2) There is no widget available and no playback options (play, pause, skip, etc.) visible in notifications. This is a big one for me. A music controller app should have these features. Every other music player and controller app I have used this far has had one or both of these features. 3) I have had connectivity issues between the app and my server when I leave the wireless connection and then return to it. The Roon app is not able to find my core again. The only solution I have found that fixes this is rebooting my phone, which is a pain to have to do.
That pretty much sums it up. Will I keep Roon after the trial is over? Probably, but the issues with the app for Android make me hesitate, especially because it is something I am paying for. The previous upnp controller I used was BubbleUpnp and it was great! It had none of the issues that I have had with the Roon app. On the other hand, Roon has some features that BubbleUpnp lacked. I am hopeful and optimistic that Roon will continue to improve the controller app so that we have the same, pleasant user experience across their whole software ecosystem!
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Post by wilburthegoose on Jan 17, 2017 9:23:07 GMT -5
gld3gld3 - for what it's worth, I use Apple and Android units to control Roon (iPad/iPhone/Galaxy Tab). The Apples perform better than the Android, but I'm not sure if it's a hardware or software issue. But the 'Droid does 98% of what I need, and for $125, that's perfect. I'm listening right now - random tracks from my 33,000 song collection. It's pretty cool. Plus, the Focus feature is great. I don't use it for Tidal (don't subscribe - still actually buy and rip CDs)
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