|
Post by freality on Oct 3, 2018 17:16:05 GMT -5
Another thing I forgot to mention: the "dotted" line near the A/C closet is where the ceiling slopes from 9' to about 7.5'. Everything to the left of the dotted line (vast majority of the room) is a flat 9' ceiling height.
|
|
|
Post by lesliew on Oct 3, 2018 17:33:30 GMT -5
Another thing I forgot to mention: the "dotted" line near the A/C closet is where the ceiling slopes from 9' to about 7.5'. Everything to the left of the dotted line (vast majority of the room) is a flat 9' ceiling height. When you say load bearing. Is that brick/block or framed out with timber. ? I have 3 JBL M2’s behind my screen which are pretty big speakers then because I couldn’t get the 6 subs in the allotted 18” behind the screen they actually sit under the screen and are framed in. Then covered with black velvet to finish off. If you are a little creative there is no reason you need to loose 30” with an AT screen if you spin the room. Just throwing some ideas out there, but it’s a great space. 👍
|
|
|
Post by freality on Oct 3, 2018 17:49:26 GMT -5
Another thing I forgot to mention: the "dotted" line near the A/C closet is where the ceiling slopes from 9' to about 7.5'. Everything to the left of the dotted line (vast majority of the room) is a flat 9' ceiling height. When you say load bearing. Is that brick/block or framed out with timber. ? I have 3 JBL M2’s behind my screen which are pretty big speakers then because I couldn’t get the 6 subs in the allotted 18” behind the screen they actually sit under the screen and are framed in. Then covered with black velvet to finish off. If you are a little creative there is no reason you need to loose 30” with an AT screen if you spin the room. Just throwing some ideas out there, but it’s a great space. 👍 Framed out with timber. Hmmm...this is a great point!
|
|
|
Post by lesliew on Oct 3, 2018 17:56:02 GMT -5
Just throwing some ideas out there, but it’s a great space. 👍[/quote]Framed out with timber. Hmmm...this is a great point![/quote]
There you go.
Leave all of the timber in place, remove the drywall from both sides. Screen on one side speakers on the other side.
Magic.
BTW before anyone else says it, drywall actually adds quite a lot to the rigidity of the wall, so definitely think about doubling up some of the vertical 2x4’s to maintain that especially since it’s load bearing.
|
|
|
Post by mgbpuff on Oct 3, 2018 17:59:32 GMT -5
Looks to me that the first row could be closer to the screen. I sit 10 ft. away from my 120" screen and I only have a 2k projector. With a 4 K projector you could go say 8 ft. Also, why the walled off back? Couldn't the windows just be shuttered over? Just have a door at the bottom of the stairs. Some dimensions would help and what screen size are you going with?
|
|
|
Post by freality on Oct 3, 2018 18:13:27 GMT -5
There you go. Leave all of the timber in place, remove the drywall from both sides. Screen on one side speakers on the other side. Magic. BTW before anyone else says it, drywall actually adds quite a lot to the rigidity of the wall, so definitely think about doubling up some of the vertical 2x4’s to maintain that especially since it’s load bearing Unfortunately, that would block access to the A/C closet (unless the screen could be moved whenever the closet needs access, but I'm having a hard time envisioning that). Also, the ceiling height at that point is 7.5' which would be too low for the size screen I'm planning BUT - this could still open up ideas to make the area behind the screen not quite as awkward as I was thinking. Also, to be clear, the dotted-line is just where the ceiling starts to slope; the actual wall between the main room and A/C closet is the solid black line with the door.
|
|
|
Post by freality on Oct 3, 2018 18:23:21 GMT -5
Looks to me that the first row could be closer to the screen. I sit 10 ft. away from my 120" screen and I only have a 2k projector. With a 4 K projector you could go say 8 ft. Also, why the walled off back? Couldn't the windows just be shuttered over? Just have a door at the bottom of the stairs. Firstly, your profile avatar is the best. Second, I'm a big believer in huge screens and the accompanying large eyes-to-screen distance for a crazy over-the-top experience. Also, since I absolutely have to have 2x seats in the middle of the prime row (cannot do 1x "sweet-spot"), a longer distance helps with viewing angles. My design currently has the prime row at 15' with a 47deg FOV + back row at 21.5' with a 34deg FOV. The walled-off back was to get a perfectly dedicated space. I'm not opposed to getting rid of that idea, but it might be a bit tough to still plan for rear-surrounds, and that would also mean there would basically be a huge hole in the floor for sound to escape
|
|
|
Post by Gary Cook on Oct 3, 2018 18:27:34 GMT -5
When I was helping a friend of mine set up his room for Atmos (5.1.2) we used some of my old pro speaker stands to find the best speaker locations. Your local pro sound shop should rent them for a weekend. We also rolled up blankets to make cylindrical corner bass traps and draped other folded blankets as acoustic wall panels. I then used REW to work out which locations were necessary and then finalised their dimensions. My friend has a Yamaha CX-A5100 processor and after that we used YPAO (Yamaha's acoustic optimiser) for final correction (it didn't need much). He then ordered decorative acoustic cylinders and panels to match what we found had worked with the temporary blankets. With those installed he then ran YPAO again (not much changed). Between the 2 of us it took a full weekend from start to finish, but we did try other things eg; Atmos up to 7.1.4, a few test movies as well as some of my SACD's. We had to put in the effort to get the result. I have to say that prior to this I didn't have a very good opinion of Yamaha AVR/processors (they have Sabre DAC's ) but I was very pleasantly surprised at how it sounds in this well set up room. Cheers Gary
|
|
|
Post by lrobertson on Oct 3, 2018 18:43:29 GMT -5
Sounds like screen wall might be 7ft tall so I’m assuming you’re going to go 2.35 screen in order to maximize width for the 4 wide seating since there probably isn’t room for the 1.78 height you would need.. That necessitates lens memory from your projector or a-lens. To mgpuffs point doing that with constant screen height people usually sit 2.25-2.5 screen height ratio the 2.5 being on the safer side. No reason you can’t sit farther back if you want. Some even prefer 2. I found 2.25 to be my number but with that adds other complexities. Brightness the main one to fill up a screen large enough to fill that ratio and allow me to sit far enough back to not see the microperf. Microperf screens was the only way for me to get acceptable gain for HDR. The smaller the screen the brighter and potentially blacker you can get it with iris settings but then you trade off immersion. It’s all trade offs. I’m a believer in constant screen height so if that does interest you there are plenty of discussions on avsforums.
|
|
|
Post by audiosyndrome on Oct 3, 2018 18:53:41 GMT -5
To me it looks like overkill for such a small room. 24 speakers? Don’t know if full size commercial theatres use that many??? I appreciate your enthusiasm but I think you’re setting yourself up for a project that will never be completed. Just my opinion.
Russ
|
|
|
Post by mgbpuff on Oct 3, 2018 18:58:29 GMT -5
Looks to me that the first row could be closer to the screen. I sit 10 ft. away from my 120" screen and I only have a 2k projector. With a 4 K projector you could go say 8 ft. Also, why the walled off back? Couldn't the windows just be shuttered over? Just have a door at the bottom of the stairs. Firstly, your profile avatar is the best. Second, I'm a big believer in huge screens and the accompanying large eyes-to-screen distance for a crazy over-the-top experience. Also, since I absolutely have to have 2x seats in the middle of the prime row (cannot do 1x "sweet-spot"), a longer distance helps with viewing angles. My design currently has the prime row at 15' with a 47deg FOV + back row at 21.5' with a 34deg FOV. The walled-off back was to get a perfectly dedicated space. I'm not opposed to getting rid of that idea, but it might be a bit tough to still plan for rear-surrounds, and that would also mean there would basically be a huge hole in the floor for sound to escape So it sounds like a 165"diag (12' x 6.75', so should fit) screen 16:9 ratio. Right?
|
|
|
Post by lrobertson on Oct 3, 2018 19:00:26 GMT -5
Running wire and installing speakers Are the easy parts of the job if everything is accessible. I’ve heard people say the only point of so many speakers is spl in very large rooms but that just isn’t the full truth. The point of dipoles is to trick your brain into thinking there is that same array that you find in the large theater rooms of the past. Gets you that diffuse sound from so many speakers playing at once with different angular separation. You will still have that angular separation in a small room just there isn’t much advantage to spl. Set it all up if you’re decided on it and get back to us after you’ve listened to it with 7.1.4, 9.1.6, and your 11.5.8. I’ll bet it’s a noticeable improvement. I’ll do the same.
|
|
|
Post by lrobertson on Oct 3, 2018 19:08:42 GMT -5
If you were to use the 7ft false wall idea a 165” 16:9 doesn’t give you enough room for the frame or the height to recline without your feet blocking the screen much less the back row. I’d stick to the 9ft wall if that’s what you are working with. Gives you 18-24” to raise the screen at least.
|
|
|
Post by freality on Oct 3, 2018 19:09:59 GMT -5
Sounds like screen wall might be 7ft tall so I’m assuming you’re going to go 2.35 screen in order to maximize width for the 4 wide seating since there probably isn’t room for the 1.78 height you would need.. That necessitates lens memory from your projector or a-lens. To mgpuffs point doing that with constant screen height people usually sit 2.25-2.5 screen height ratio the 2.5 being on the safer side. No reason you can’t sit farther back if you want. Some even prefer 2. I found 2.25 to be my number but with that adds other complexities. Brightness the main one to fill up a screen large enough to fill that ratio and allow me to sit far enough back to not see the microperf. Microperf screens was the only way for me to get acceptable gain for HDR. The smaller the screen the brighter and potentially blacker you can get it with iris settings but then you trade off immersion. It’s all trade offs. Absolutely. This whole endeavor is a one-way ticket to Trade-off Town. If I kept the screen wall anywhere to the left of the dotted line in the layout, then it would be 9' (but indeed, if it were flush to the wall that's between the main room and A/C storage closet, then we're talking around 7'...but then I wouldn't be able to access the A/C closet). I'd love to be able to have a 16:9 screen that has semi-permanent magnetic masks for mostly 2:35 viewing. Idea being, most will be 2.35 viewing, and most 16:9 will be zoomed within that, but then I have the option for a "bigger" 16:9 IMAX-like viewing area (whether for aspect-changing flicks or simply for 16:9 movies that warrant a huge screen), if that makes sense. My only experience with Microperf was a Stewart Firehawk, but I was able to catch reflections of the speakers from behind. I want to say I was sitting around 15' from the screen, but not sure exactly. How far back are you from your Microperf? So...indeed, I've been thinking woven (Center Stage XD...real-world 0.94 gain). Should still be enough for 16ftL for SDR with current/upcoming projectors, even with an aged bulb. For HDR, I'll totally be forced to use a custom curve or auto-tone mapping. I'm fine with sacrificing some deeper blacks or brighter highlights for a massive screen.
|
|
|
Post by freality on Oct 3, 2018 19:14:48 GMT -5
To me it looks like overkill for such a small room. 24 speakers? Don’t know if full size commercial theatres use that many??? I appreciate your enthusiasm but I think you’re setting yourself up for a project that will never be completed. Just my opinion. Russ Sorry, but I don't know the meaning of the word, "overkill." Kidding, of course. I totally get what you're saying, and will most likely end up with 9.1.6, but it's fun to plan BTW - my dimensions will be somewhere around either 25.5'l x 16.5'w x 9'h (or 23'l x 16.5'w x 9'h depending on room orientation). Not huge, but not small, either
|
|
|
Post by freality on Oct 3, 2018 19:17:18 GMT -5
Firstly, your profile avatar is the best. Second, I'm a big believer in huge screens and the accompanying large eyes-to-screen distance for a crazy over-the-top experience. Also, since I absolutely have to have 2x seats in the middle of the prime row (cannot do 1x "sweet-spot"), a longer distance helps with viewing angles. My design currently has the prime row at 15' with a 47deg FOV + back row at 21.5' with a 34deg FOV. The walled-off back was to get a perfectly dedicated space. I'm not opposed to getting rid of that idea, but it might be a bit tough to still plan for rear-surrounds, and that would also mean there would basically be a huge hole in the floor for sound to escape So it sounds like a 165"diag (12' x 6.75', so should fit) screen 16:9 ratio. Right? In my current design, the screen is 155" wide 16:9. (178" diag)
|
|
|
Post by freality on Oct 3, 2018 19:21:35 GMT -5
Running wire and installing speakers Are the easy parts of the job if everything is accessible. I’ve heard people say the only point of so many speakers is spl in very large rooms but that just isn’t the full truth. The point of dipoles is to trick your brain into thinking there is that same array that you find in the large theater rooms of the past. Gets you that diffuse sound from so many speakers playing at once with different angular separation. You will still have that angular separation in a small room just there isn’t much advantage to spl. Set it all up if you’re decided on it and get back to us after you’ve listened to it with 7.1.4, 9.1.6, and your 11.5.8. I’ll bet it’s a noticeable improvement. I’ll do the same. Back in the good ol' 5.1 days, dipoles were a revelation for me. I think you are right on the money with this post. The more speakers to create coverage for object-based soundtracks, the better, I say!
|
|
|
Post by freality on Oct 3, 2018 19:27:37 GMT -5
When I was helping a friend of mine set up his room for Atmos (5.1.2) we used some of my old pro speaker stands to find the best speaker locations. Your local pro sound shop should rent them for a weekend. We also rolled up blankets to make cylindrical corner bass traps and draped other folded blankets as acoustic wall panels. I then used REW to work out which locations were necessary and then finalised their dimensions. My friend has a Yamaha CX-A5100 processor and after that we used YPAO (Yamaha's acoustic optimiser) for final correction (it didn't need much). He then ordered decorative acoustic cylinders and panels to match what we found had worked with the temporary blankets. With those installed he then ran YPAO again (not much changed). Between the 2 of us it took a full weekend from start to finish, but we did try other things eg; Atmos up to 7.1.4, a few test movies as well as some of my SACD's. We had to put in the effort to get the result. I have to say that prior to this I didn't have a very good opinion of Yamaha AVR/processors (they have Sabre DAC's ) but I was very pleasantly surprised at how it sounds in this well set up room. Cheers Gary I love this idea of using rolled-up and folded blankets as corner bass traps and acoustic wall panels when roughly sketching out acoustics beforehand. I'm stealing this!
|
|
|
Post by Bonzo on Oct 3, 2018 19:40:18 GMT -5
Towels hung from 3M Command Hooks have a similar effect. Although this technique is best used in a room where painting etc isn't desired.
|
|
|
Post by Bonzo on Oct 3, 2018 19:48:58 GMT -5
I'd turn the entire room around, putting the screen in front of the A/C room (could be equipment room also). Very good suggestion. And this is why you wonder why you sometimes come across as a jerk. Suggesting getting rid of those items politely is fine, but the "give me a break" part makes you come across as an a$$. First of all its condescending, second, how do you know someone in his family doesn't have something like bladder or incontinent issues? Or they are just older so going up and down steps is a pain. This room is upstairs all by itself. Third, in my family we many times hit pause for pee breaks etc. Its nice when its close. So while it might not be for you, I think its a good thing to have close by if odds favor it. Get it?
|
|