novisnick
EmoPhile
CEO Secret Monoblock Society
Posts: 27,230
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Post by novisnick on May 21, 2019 9:27:17 GMT -5
No he is not folks! JVC works fine with other processors, and for the record my Runco is having the same issues as your JVC when in fact it was working fine with the V3 board on the XMC-1. Even if this was true, it is a problem for Emotiva to resolve and not the user to buy a different projector. At what point did I say we should all look into buying new projectors? I am simply saying that if AppleTV-Emotiva-JVC doesn't work properly, and AppleTV-Marantz-JVC does work properly, where does the problem lie? Emotiva. Perhaps the JVC is asking for something that the AppleTV is sending, but the Emotiva isn't allowing it through. Perhaps the Runco is asking for the same thing as the JVC, but Sony doesn't ask for it. All I'm saying is, I noticed these exact problems when I upgraded my projector, and the JVC projectors seem to possibly be a common thread, and it's worth looking at. Trust me, I'll buy a new processor before I buy a new projector if that is the problem and they are unwilling to fix it. My RMC-1 , Yamaha Avantage 33020, ATV gen 3 and ATV4K have worked just fine with my Samsung 4K 8550 and LG C8 , most likely the problem is the JVC.
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Post by thrillcat on May 21, 2019 9:30:49 GMT -5
At what point did I say we should all look into buying new projectors? I am simply saying that if AppleTV-Emotiva-JVC doesn't work properly, and AppleTV-Marantz-JVC does work properly, where does the problem lie? Emotiva. Perhaps the JVC is asking for something that the AppleTV is sending, but the Emotiva isn't allowing it through. Perhaps the Runco is asking for the same thing as the JVC, but Sony doesn't ask for it. All I'm saying is, I noticed these exact problems when I upgraded my projector, and the JVC projectors seem to possibly be a common thread, and it's worth looking at. Trust me, I'll buy a new processor before I buy a new projector if that is the problem and they are unwilling to fix it. My RMC-1 , Yamaha Avantage 33020, ATV gen 3 and ATV4K have worked just fine with my Samsung 4K 8550 and LG C8 , most likely the problem is the JVC. The problem is most likely the Emotiva, since other processors don't seem to be having this issue. But if connecting the JVC and playing an entire episode of Game of Thrones via the AppleTV will help track down what the issue is, and what can be done to correct it, that is what is important. I also would like to know if Emotiva is allowing enough time for the problem to manifest when they are testing. Sometimes I get a dropout in the first 5 minutes of Game of Thrones, sometimes it isn't until 45 minutes in. I wonder if they're playing 10 minutes and saying "well, that works, must be internet."
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novisnick
EmoPhile
CEO Secret Monoblock Society
Posts: 27,230
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Post by novisnick on May 21, 2019 9:37:31 GMT -5
HDMI lock and audio selection is my only proble with the RMC-1. Oh, no Dirac yet.
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Post by deewan on May 21, 2019 9:56:23 GMT -5
I wonder if it's the JVC projector causing some of the issues? I remember when the RMC-1 was first about to launch they had to hold off specifically because of an issue between the HDMI board and JVC projectors. I am not blaming the JVC, but I wonder if that incompatibility is still showing up form time to time? Good thoughts, but I don't believe it's the JVC. I had audio dropouts when I also only had my 1080 monitor hooked up. I've tried all sort of different configurations and the only constants are the RMC, my interconnects (certified) and my Emotiva amps.
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Post by goozoo on May 21, 2019 10:32:43 GMT -5
These dropout issues seem to be related not to the devices connected, rather the need for HDCP 2.2 to check its’ connection at set timed intervals triggering an event to re-sync the audio. The device connected plays a role probably on the EDID side leading to the variability in behavior observed.
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 9,986
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Post by KeithL on May 21, 2019 10:55:16 GMT -5
Actually... it would depend on which of those products complied properly with the current HDMI standard. Presumably, if the standard was crystal clear, and if everyone complied 100% with it, then everything would just work, and we wouldn't have these problems.
(The standard is NOT "how many other products do you work with" - there are actual standards which everyone is supposed to be following.)
Unfortunately, because the standard is so complex, and not everyone complies with it anyway, the whole process has become extremely complex. First, we have to do our best to comply with the actual standards, which not everyone interprets exactly the same.
THEN we have to go back and try and figure out workarounds to work with other products that may not comply properly with the standard. And, of course, at the same time, the other guys are changing the way their products work, in order to solve other problems they're having with other products.
The result is a very complex "moving target" - and a lot of work.
If you remember, it took years for HDMI to reach a point where "most HDMI devices worked properly together". HDMI 2.0b is much more complex and contains a lot more options... and they're still changing it. Hopefully it won't take as long as last time to get it all sorted out.
No he is not folks! JVC works fine with other processors, and for the record my Runco is having the same issues as your JVC when in fact it was working fine with the V3 board on the XMC-1. Even if this was true, it is a problem for Emotiva to resolve and not the user to buy a different projector. At what point did I say we should all look into buying new projectors? I am simply saying that if AppleTV-Emotiva-JVC doesn't work properly, and AppleTV-Marantz-JVC does work properly, where does the problem lie? Emotiva. Perhaps the JVC is asking for something that the AppleTV is sending, but the Emotiva isn't allowing it through. Perhaps the Runco is asking for the same thing as the JVC, but Sony doesn't ask for it. All I'm saying is, I noticed these exact problems when I upgraded my projector, and the JVC projectors seem to possibly be a common thread, and it's worth looking at. Trust me, I'll buy a new processor before I buy a new projector if that is the problem and they are unwilling to fix it.
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Post by thrillcat on May 21, 2019 11:07:06 GMT -5
I don't think anyone is disagreeing that HDMI is a textbook example of how NOT to create a "standard". I think the bigger question is, how does it get fixed?
Perhaps a public shaming of companies causing the problems is in order. How about a website ranking consumer electronics companies in terms of how closely they comply to the standard?
Or perhaps it's time for Emotiva to go rogue and just make it work, forget the standard? It seems to be a successful path for other companies.
I completely respect wanting to comply by the standards, and I completely understand that the problems likely stem from other companies NOT complying to the standards. But something has to give, or you come off as the company not able to make it work.
Or maybe Emotiva should be known as the company that created and spearheaded the HDMI Standard Bureau of Enforcement? If it's as big a problem as it seems, I'd imagine there are plenty of other companies that would be on board, if it's going to make their products perform better with less babysitting and troubleshooting.
Complying is honorable, but what's that old saying from the Green Day song? Nice guys finish last.
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Post by davidl81 on May 21, 2019 11:22:42 GMT -5
Actually... it would depend on which of those products complied properly with the current HDMI standard. Presumably, if the standard was crystal clear, and if everyone complied 100% with it, then everything would just work, and we wouldn't have these problems.
(The standard is NOT "how many other products do you work with" - there are actual standards which everyone is supposed to be following.)
Unfortunately, because the standard is so complex, and not everyone complies with it anyway, the whole process has become extremely complex. First, we have to do our best to comply with the actual standards, which not everyone interprets exactly the same.
THEN we have to go back and try and figure out workarounds to work with other products that may not comply properly with the standard. And, of course, at the same time, the other guys are changing the way their products work, in order to solve other problems they're having with other products.
The result is a very complex "moving target" - and a lot of work.
If you remember, it took years for HDMI to reach a point where "most HDMI devices worked properly together". HDMI 2.0b is much more complex and contains a lot more options... and they're still changing it. Hopefully it won't take as long as last time to get it all sorted out.
At what point did I say we should all look into buying new projectors? I am simply saying that if AppleTV-Emotiva-JVC doesn't work properly, and AppleTV-Marantz-JVC does work properly, where does the problem lie? Emotiva. Perhaps the JVC is asking for something that the AppleTV is sending, but the Emotiva isn't allowing it through. Perhaps the Runco is asking for the same thing as the JVC, but Sony doesn't ask for it. All I'm saying is, I noticed these exact problems when I upgraded my projector, and the JVC projectors seem to possibly be a common thread, and it's worth looking at. Trust me, I'll buy a new processor before I buy a new projector if that is the problem and they are unwilling to fix it. Keith, Please don't take this as a flame to Emotiva, because it is not meant that way. But how does a company like Marantz make a processor like the 8805 that is for the most part as complex as the RMC-1, yet it seems to have no issues with HDMI, where as the Emotiva solution (RMC/XMC) is having issues? Is this just a matter of Marantz having the same basic HDMI solution spread out among all of their products (including Denon) allowing them to see issues faster and resolve them faster, or is there something on the Emotiva HDMI solution that while maybe on paper being a superior HDMI option, just has issues since you can't test the number of combinations that D&M can? The reason I ask is I have really never had any issues with any HDMI standards (the exception being getting 4k HDR to work on my projector, but that was just a matter of getting the correct cable for 4k 4:4:4) on any products I have ever owned. That includes using things like ARC and CEC. So when I hear about all of these standards and people having trouble with them I struggle to understand it all.
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novisnick
EmoPhile
CEO Secret Monoblock Society
Posts: 27,230
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Post by novisnick on May 21, 2019 12:38:03 GMT -5
My RMC-1 , Yamaha Avantage 33020, ATV gen 3 and ATV4K have worked just fine with my Samsung 4K 8550 and LG C8 , most likely the problem is the JVC. The problem is most likely the Emotiva, since other processors don't seem to be having this issue. But if connecting the JVC and playing an entire episode of Game of Thrones via the AppleTV will help track down what the issue is, and what can be done to correct it, that is what is important. I also would like to know if Emotiva is allowing enough time for the problem to manifest when they are testing. Sometimes I get a dropout in the first 5 minutes of Game of Thrones, sometimes it isn't until 45 minutes in. I wonder if they're playing 10 minutes and saying "well, that works, must be internet." Please clarify your response
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Post by Geronimo on May 21, 2019 12:48:41 GMT -5
Yes, definitely, after many hours of Atmos content via the AppleTV 4K, I am definitely getting many audio dropouts and strange sounds coming out of the surrounds. My display is a Sony OLED, the A1E
So, you can add me to the list of people with ATMOS problems....5.0 PCM is streaming fine. ATMOS streaming is still the same as yesterday. Lots of drop outs, and strange misdirected sounds coming out of the surrounds. I tried cold booting everything. RMC, TV, AppleTV 4K, and still the same problem with streaming Atmos from the AppleTV 4K ....
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Post by rbk123 on May 21, 2019 13:50:32 GMT -5
Trust me, I'll buy a new processor before I buy a new projector if that is the problem and they are unwilling to fix it. What did you have before you upgraded to the X790?
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 9,986
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Post by KeithL on May 21, 2019 13:56:08 GMT -5
Well, yes, part of it is that they're essentially using the same technology for all of their HDMI 2.0 products... and they are a lot bigger. This means that, if there's a problem with an integral part of the technology like HDMI, it affects a lot of products, and a lot of sales, and they have a lot of engineers they can enlist to fix it quickly. It also means that, if they find a problem with the HDMI switch chips they use, and they buy several million of them every year, their supplier will be eager to do whatever it takes to make them happy. And, if your new TV or projector model won't work with Marantz AVRs and processors, you won't sell very many - regardless of whose fault it is and who is or isn't complying with the standards.
Of course, the catch is that even the 800 pound gorilla has to answer to someone... and that someone is all of their customers collectively. Now, to be fair, this isn't always a bad thing... as long as the needs of most of those customers agree with what we care about. For example, Marantz knows that most of us hate having to switch an input twice, or having to reboot now and then, so they do a great job of fixing those sorts of issues... The down-side is that they also know that most of their customers are more worried about those sorts of problems than about things like getting the absolute best sound quality...
Here at Emotiva, our priority has always been sound quality, which sometimes means that other things have to wait a little longer... (We made sure to get the sound quality as good as we could first....)
However, make no mistake..... we ARE working on all the other little problems and we will get to them...
Also, to be totally honest - you've been lucky in your experiences with 4k. There have been a lot of compatibility issues, especially with getting 4k gear to work with older equipment, and getting gear with slightly different revision levels to work together.
Although, also to be fair, not everyone has problems... Here on the forums you hear a lot from the people who have problems, but you don't hear much from the people who don't.
Actually... it would depend on which of those products complied properly with the current HDMI standard. Presumably, if the standard was crystal clear, and if everyone complied 100% with it, then everything would just work, and we wouldn't have these problems.
(The standard is NOT "how many other products do you work with" - there are actual standards which everyone is supposed to be following.)
Unfortunately, because the standard is so complex, and not everyone complies with it anyway, the whole process has become extremely complex. First, we have to do our best to comply with the actual standards, which not everyone interprets exactly the same.
THEN we have to go back and try and figure out workarounds to work with other products that may not comply properly with the standard. And, of course, at the same time, the other guys are changing the way their products work, in order to solve other problems they're having with other products.
The result is a very complex "moving target" - and a lot of work. If you remember, it took years for HDMI to reach a point where "most HDMI devices worked properly together". HDMI 2.0b is much more complex and contains a lot more options... and they're still changing it. Hopefully it won't take as long as last time to get it all sorted out.
Keith, Please don't take this as a flame to Emotiva, because it is not meant that way. But how does a company like Marantz make a processor like the 8805 that is for the most part as complex as the RMC-1, yet it seems to have no issues with HDMI, where as the Emotiva solution (RMC/XMC) is having issues? Is this just a matter of Marantz having the same basic HDMI solution spread out among all of their products (including Denon) allowing them to see issues faster and resolve them faster, or is there something on the Emotiva HDMI solution that while maybe on paper being a superior HDMI option, just has issues since you can't test the number of combinations that D&M can? The reason I ask is I have really never had any issues with any HDMI standards (the exception being getting 4k HDR to work on my projector, but that was just a matter of getting the correct cable for 4k 4:4:4) on any products I have ever owned. That includes using things like ARC and CEC. So when I hear about all of these standards and people having trouble with them I struggle to understand it all.
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Post by davidl81 on May 21, 2019 14:19:57 GMT -5
Well, yes, part of it is that they're essentially using the same technology for all of their HDMI 2.0 products... and they are a lot bigger. This means that, if there's a problem with an integral part of the technology like HDMI, it affects a lot of products, and a lot of sales, and they have a lot of engineers they can enlist to fix it quickly. It also means that, if they find a problem with the HDMI switch chips they use, and they buy several million of them every year, their supplier will be eager to do whatever it takes to make them happy. And, if your new TV or projector model won't work with Marantz AVRs and processors, you won't sell very many - regardless of whose fault it is and who is or isn't complying with the standards.
Of course, the catch is that even the 800 pound gorilla has to answer to someone... and that someone is all of their customers collectively. Now, to be fair, this isn't always a bad thing... as long as the needs of most of those customers agree with what we care about. For example, Marantz knows that most of us hate having to switch an input twice, or having to reboot now and then, so they do a great job of fixing those sorts of issues... The down-side is that they also know that most of their customers are more worried about those sorts of problems than about things like getting the absolute best sound quality...
Here at Emotiva, our priority has always been sound quality, which sometimes means that other things have to wait a little longer... (We made sure to get the sound quality as good as we could first....)
However, make no mistake..... we ARE working on all the other little problems and we will get to them...
Also, to be totally honest - you've been lucky in your experiences with 4k. There have been a lot of compatibility issues, especially with getting 4k gear to work with older equipment, and getting gear with slightly different revision levels to work together.
Although, also to be fair, not everyone has problems... Here on the forums you hear a lot from the people who have problems, but you don't hear much from the people who don't.
Keith, Please don't take this as a flame to Emotiva, because it is not meant that way. But how does a company like Marantz make a processor like the 8805 that is for the most part as complex as the RMC-1, yet it seems to have no issues with HDMI, where as the Emotiva solution (RMC/XMC) is having issues? Is this just a matter of Marantz having the same basic HDMI solution spread out among all of their products (including Denon) allowing them to see issues faster and resolve them faster, or is there something on the Emotiva HDMI solution that while maybe on paper being a superior HDMI option, just has issues since you can't test the number of combinations that D&M can? The reason I ask is I have really never had any issues with any HDMI standards (the exception being getting 4k HDR to work on my projector, but that was just a matter of getting the correct cable for 4k 4:4:4) on any products I have ever owned. That includes using things like ARC and CEC. So when I hear about all of these standards and people having trouble with them I struggle to understand it all. Thank you Keith for an honest answer. I do think sometimes we forget that the people with issues are a lot louder than people without issues. Not saying that the people with issues are not valid, just we don't get to see that its maybe 1 out of 10 people with issues.
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 9,986
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Post by KeithL on May 21, 2019 14:22:34 GMT -5
That is an interesting question......
Part of the issue is that the question isn't that clear-cut... There are standards - which everyone tries to follow... And our products have in fact passed their compliance tests... And I'll bet that JVC's projectors and Marantz and Denon's AVRs and processors have passed them as well... So, in fact, everything should be working just fine...
(And, in principle, standards are a great idea - because they mean that everything should work together.)
Good luck on a rating website - or on public shaming - those sorts of things only work if enough customers actually care. Let's see a show of hands... How many people here will throw away their JVC projector if they find out it's the component that's out of compliance? (I'm guessing not too many of you raised your hands.)
As for "going rogue and just getting our products to work with theirs"..... that's sort of what we're doing. However, the more friendly term most people prefer is "developing work-arounds to enable your products to work with others that may not be fully compliant". And, yes, we're working on exactly that. However, as you might expect, we can only handle so many things at once... So it may take a while for us to get to them all...
I don't think anyone is disagreeing that HDMI is a textbook example of how NOT to create a "standard". I think the bigger question is, how does it get fixed? Perhaps a public shaming of companies causing the problems is in order. How about a website ranking consumer electronics companies in terms of how closely they comply to the standard? Or perhaps it's time for Emotiva to go rogue and just make it work, forget the standard? It seems to be a successful path for other companies. I completely respect wanting to comply by the standards, and I completely understand that the problems likely stem from other companies NOT complying to the standards. But something has to give, or you come off as the company not able to make it work. Or maybe Emotiva should be known as the company that created and spearheaded the HDMI Standard Bureau of Enforcement? If it's as big a problem as it seems, I'd imagine there are plenty of other companies that would be on board, if it's going to make their products perform better with less babysitting and troubleshooting. Complying is honorable, but what's that old saying from the Green Day song? Nice guys finish last.
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Post by SteveH on May 21, 2019 14:58:12 GMT -5
Whether it is electrical or mechanical, everything is built to +/- tolerance specifications. If for some reason all the component tolerances stack up to either the + side or the - side you will have issues with the final end result not being optimal even though each individual component is within the proper specifications.
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Post by tabbycph on May 21, 2019 15:06:45 GMT -5
This is the most eye-opening moment I've had in this process. Granted, I'm still using the XMC-1 with the v3 board, but I had no problems with dropouts from the AppleTV until I upgraded to the JVC projector (same model as deewan ). I'm wondering if they have a JVC projector at HQ for testing. Anyone else having AppleTV dropouts, what is your display? I have a JVC NX7 and have dropouts every ca 13 min, both on appletv4k and htpc. I will try with my old Sony hw65 projector. And when the jvc nx7 was hook up to my old Marantz 8802A, there was no prboelm. I have tried the Sony projector and its the same.
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Post by deewan on May 21, 2019 15:11:30 GMT -5
Actually... it would depend on which of those products complied properly with the current HDMI standard. Presumably, if the standard was crystal clear, and if everyone complied 100% with it, then everything would just work, and we wouldn't have these problems.
(The standard is NOT "how many other products do you work with" - there are actual standards which everyone is supposed to be following.)
Unfortunately, because the standard is so complex, and not everyone complies with it anyway, the whole process has become extremely complex. First, we have to do our best to comply with the actual standards, which not everyone interprets exactly the same.
THEN we have to go back and try and figure out workarounds to work with other products that may not comply properly with the standard. And, of course, at the same time, the other guys are changing the way their products work, in order to solve other problems they're having with other products.
The result is a very complex "moving target" - and a lot of work. If you remember, it took years for HDMI to reach a point where "most HDMI devices worked properly together". HDMI 2.0b is much more complex and contains a lot more options... and they're still changing it. Hopefully it won't take as long as last time to get it all sorted out.
Keith. If the issues I am experiencing with the RMC are due to the hdmi standards and components that may or may not follow those standards, why is Emotiva so reluctant to give me and others the list of components they apparently test with and do not see any of these issues? If Emotiva says they test with an equipment list of an Oppo, Apple TV 4K, Brand X hdmi cables and one of a few displays I for one would take a strong look at that list of equipment and see what could be the cause and consider my options of swapping out my gear. As you suggest in a different post I likely won't throw away my JVC projector, but I would strongly consider swapping out my Oppo player, my Gen 3 AppleTV or my cables if Emotiva says they can't reproduce any of my issues.
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Post by aswiss on May 21, 2019 17:16:30 GMT -5
Is there somewhere a list of things, that might cause issues? I tested some files tonight, with my oppo203, streamed content from LAN. MKV Files with Atmos if the MKV has MLP and does not contain the additional Atmos Information - oppo only plays the file properly if its freshly booted. If not, MLP will be given out as LPCM 7.1. Same File plays Atmos fine over my Zidoo Z9S. M2TS Files with Atmos They play fine no Drops at no time - but HDMI CEC needs to be disabled.
Zidoo Z9S plays everything fine - but movie stops always after 53 minutes (maybe an issue with the Firmware). But during the rest of the time - Atmos plays fine, no Drops.
I wanted to watch Netflix from my TV (LG OLED E6) with HDMI ARC - therefore activated HDMI CEC. TV was not willing to send Sound via ARC - after RMC1 reboot, Sound was here.
Then switched again to Zidoo Box, and wanted to check the RMC-1 Setup while Movie was Playing - as soon as Setup is poping up, the movie stopped playing on the box in the back. Then started movie again, Atmos was working, but the front, and Center Channel did not play properly. RMC1 Reboot - all good. After this - i listened SACD with Direct Stream. When pressing the Stop button on oppo Remote - oppo had a freeze - and RMC1 did not stop the DSD Direct Stream (was still written on the Display). Reboot the oppo, and it was working again.
I own the oppo for a longer period of time - and the LAN Play is not really good - what work perfect is with discs.
After 2 weeks with my RMC1 - as long as I don't change anything (Setup, Main etc.), and HDMI CEC is disabled - the box is more or less doing what I expect.
In addition, my TRIM problem is reported, hopefully it's fixed soon - so Dirac should be the next step. And when it comes to sound - had a friend here with a Stereo Pre Amp - and RMC1 in Direct Mode sounded better with my setup. So I'm very happy with the sound quality - wanting to get the rest to the same level.
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Post by mick on May 21, 2019 20:53:17 GMT -5
Well, yes, part of it is that they're essentially using the same technology for all of their HDMI 2.0 products... and they are a lot bigger. This means that, if there's a problem with an integral part of the technology like HDMI, it affects a lot of products, and a lot of sales, and they have a lot of engineers they can enlist to fix it quickly. It also means that, if they find a problem with the HDMI switch chips they use, and they buy several million of them every year, their supplier will be eager to do whatever it takes to make them happy. And, if your new TV or projector model won't work with Marantz AVRs and processors, you won't sell very many - regardless of whose fault it is and who is or isn't complying with the standards.
Of course, the catch is that even the 800 pound gorilla has to answer to someone... and that someone is all of their customers collectively. Now, to be fair, this isn't always a bad thing... as long as the needs of most of those customers agree with what we care about. For example, Marantz knows that most of us hate having to switch an input twice, or having to reboot now and then, so they do a great job of fixing those sorts of issues... The down-side is that they also know that most of their customers are more worried about those sorts of problems than about things like getting the absolute best sound quality...
Here at Emotiva, our priority has always been sound quality, which sometimes means that other things have to wait a little longer... (We made sure to get the sound quality as good as we could first....)
However, make no mistake..... we ARE working on all the other little problems and we will get to them...
Also, to be totally honest - you've been lucky in your experiences with 4k. There have been a lot of compatibility issues, especially with getting 4k gear to work with older equipment, and getting gear with slightly different revision levels to work together.
Although, also to be fair, not everyone has problems... Here on the forums you hear a lot from the people who have problems, but you don't hear much from the people who don't.
Thank you Keith for an honest answer. I do think sometimes we forget that the people with issues are a lot louder than people without issues. Not saying that the people with issues are not valid, just we don't get to see that its maybe 1 out of 10 people with issues. 1 out of 10 with no issues? ...... really!
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Post by cwt on May 21, 2019 23:20:02 GMT -5
There have been a lot of compatibility issues, especially with getting 4k gear to work with older equipment, and getting gear with slightly different revision levels to work together. Yes ;its another factor that Emo has to deal with ; everybody has the hdmi2.0a revision and Emo 2.0b Hi Deewan ;if your intent is to populate your system with Emo test items that have no issues and you did ; Emo then produces a new firmware that screws something up due to a workaround ;I can see a reluctance to lumber someone with "no issue components " and the acrimony that followed . Many times have new firmwares screwed over components that have previously been faultless ; its all a moving target to some extent unfortunately is the way I see it . That new firmware that changes things can be to the component in question or to the RMC1 - 2 ways .. eg ; Its great that individual bd discs need compatibility updates -NOT Encouraging ; seems they haven't said near enough is good enough An update from Lonnie would help ..
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