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Post by deewan on Jul 21, 2019 21:10:29 GMT -5
I’m truly sorry for the issues you still have. As much as I want to please everyone I at a loss what to do now. I have swapped out your unit multiple times and put everything on the back burner so we could work on your problems. To date I have devoted well over a 1000 man hours of my teams resources working to find solutions to no avail. What doesn’t make since is that no one else has these issues so I am truly at a loss and not sure if we will be able to find solutions for you but will continue to work on it. Lonnie While my RMC has been swapped out multiple times, let's remember that there was a lot of moving parts with very little actually swapping out for a RMC that wasn't defective upon arrival. RMC 1 had hardware issues with front knob, LED ring and a few other items. It was replaced with RMC 2. RMC 2 was been plagued with issues and was attempted to be replaced with by RMC 3. RMC 3 arrived to me with the dinging development Dolby chip onboard. While I had RMC 3, I was told a hardware issues (broken connections) were found with RMC 2 and those issues were fixed. I sent back the dinging RMC 3 and I was shipped the repaired RMC 2 with it's repairs. Yes, I've had several RMC's shipped back and forth. But I've had hardware issues with all of them and Emotiva should be aware of that. The current issues I have are very easy to duplicate with my Oppo or Mede8der media player. This crackle/static issue was an item Damon said he was able to reproduce in the lab (using a different movie). With FW 1.4 I can reproduce the crackle/static with only my RMC, Oppo 203 and JVC connected to each other.
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Post by deewan on Jul 21, 2019 21:12:41 GMT -5
This crackle, do you get it from different movies or just Justice League? I think I had this a couple of times before with 1.3, but shorter length. While testing atmos tracks. Just as you I noticed that sometimes the bass seemed normal and sometimes almost excessive.. It seems behaving different depending on source. I have tried a bunch of movies which I don’t feel had ”too much” bass. Although playing music with direct mode I have felt an increase in bass level. I have not recalibrated my speaker levels since upgrading to 1.4. Will do this later.. As reported to the Emotiva staff, I was also able to get the same crackle/static sound while watching Passengers using my movie streamer and a bit-for-bit copy of my BluRay, however that movie was viewed without an Atmos soundtrack. I'd have to go back and see what I logged for that movie.
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Post by Thunderduck on Jul 21, 2019 21:13:54 GMT -5
With all the positive feedback on firmware 1.4 results, decided to join the RMC-1 club and take advantage of the XMC-1 upgrade program. Emotiva received my XMC-1 this past Friday. Really looking forward to receiving my RMC-1 this coming week. Congratulations! So we’re you given any option to have your RMC-1 shipped to you first (presumably paying full price), and then getting a credit when you return your XMC-1? If you take advantage of the upgrade / trade in, do you forfeit your evaluation period? These questions should probably be asked in the trade in thread, but no one has posted there yet. Sorry to say neither question came up. I did not ask directly about having the RMC-1 shipped directly before they received my XMC-1, but I certainly suggested such a plan. Emotiva definitely wanted my unit first for them to check over. They did give me a list of the accessories they wanted returned and their cost if I did not have any of them. Once we got the accessories squared away, I was sent an invoice, and once that was paid for I received a UPS label for returning mine.
Afraid I did not ask about the evaluation period although I assumed (I know) that it would at least be 30 days as normal and because of the issues with the RMC not until the release of Dirac as stated by Emotiva earlier.
Following is a listing of the accessories along with their value and the info to be provided before the trade can continue:
"The individual value of the accessories is as follows:
Microphone: $30 Microphone stand with clip: $10 Microphone digitizer cable: $15 Remote control: $30 Power cord: $10 Radio antennas: $5 Packing Materials: $25
Before we are able to offer the trade, we will need to verify that you are eligible for the upgrade.
To begin the process, please reply to let us know you are ready. In your reply, please verify: 1. Shipping address for your new processor 2. Any missing accessories or packing material 3. Any known hardware issues with your XMC-1 (if applicable) 4. XMC-1 Serial Number 5. HDMI board version (if you know) 6. If you ordered from a dealer, please also include you purchase receipt"
That is about it. Sorry about being a bit wishy washy on the evaluation period. Figured it would be tied to the release of Dirac.
Best regards to all,
Steve
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 21, 2019 23:21:27 GMT -5
... That is about it. Sorry about being a bit wishy washy on the evaluation period. Figured it would be tied to the release of Dirac. ... The reason I wondered about the eval period was because of the trade in. If you changed your mind would you get ‘your’ XMC-1 back? or might it be like a 40% card and you forfeit your XMC? Anyway, I won’t derail this anymore, it belongs in the trade in thread and 1.4 discussion is more important here.
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Post by goozoo on Jul 21, 2019 23:35:32 GMT -5
This crackle, do you get it from different movies or just Justice League? I think I had this a couple of times before with 1.3, but shorter length. While testing atmos tracks. Just as you I noticed that sometimes the bass seemed normal and sometimes almost excessive.. It seems behaving different depending on source. I have tried a bunch of movies which I don’t feel had ”too much” bass. Although playing music with direct mode I have felt an increase in bass level. I have not recalibrated my speaker levels since upgrading to 1.4. Will do this later.. As reported to the Emotiva staff, I was also able to get the same crackle/static sound while watching Passengers using my movie streamer and a bit-for-bit copy of my BluRay, however that movie was viewed without an Atmos soundtrack. I'd have to go back and see what I logged for that movie. I think that there is something about your setup/ hardware that is simply incompatible with how the RMC1 handles audio. You have done this dance long enough and found a replacement that you are very happy with. At this point there really is no reason to drag this out any further. There are other processors also on the horizon should you wish to try those but I think that you are beating a dead horse by hanging onto the RMC1. I’m also guilty of holding out for too long but I just wanted to see if I could get to the point to where I could be happy and so far the answer has been no. That said I’m very happy for the end users who are enjoying what they bought and how far the dev. team has come along in listening and resolving the issues that were discovered.
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Post by st6212 on Jul 21, 2019 23:57:09 GMT -5
As reported to the Emotiva staff, I was also able to get the same crackle/static sound while watching Passengers using my movie streamer and a bit-for-bit copy of my BluRay, however that movie was viewed without an Atmos soundtrack. I'd have to go back and see what I logged for that movie. I think that there is something about your setup/ hardware that is simply incompatible with how the RMC1 handles audio. You have done this dance long enough and found a replacement that you are very happy with. At this point there really is no reason to drag this out any further. There are other processors also on the horizon should you wish to try those but I think that you are beating a dead horse by hanging onto the RMC1. I’m also guilty of holding out for too long but I just wanted to see if I could get to the point to where I could be happy and so far the answer has been no. That said I’m very happy for the end users who are enjoying what they bought and how far the dev. team has come along in listening and resolving the issues that were discovered.
What problems are you still experiencing after the 1.4 update, besides the test tones?
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doozer
Seeker Of Truth
Posts: 8
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Post by doozer on Jul 22, 2019 1:15:58 GMT -5
Hi,
Over the weekend I installed the 1.4 firmware. Some great fixes in there. After the update, I factory reset the RMC-1, setup the speaker sizes/levels and figured I would try out my Lumagen Radiance Pro (firmware 042119) again.
The following setup works, but isn't ideal as I can't apply settings per input:
oppo 203 -> RMC1 -> Lumagen -> Sony 4K Projector
If I run with: oppo 203 -> Lumagen -> RMC1 -> Sony 4K Projector
The best I can get is PCM 2.0. I imagine it's an EDID issue somewhere, but no amount of unplugging or rebooting devices will get it to negotiate anything but PCM 2.0.
Please let me know if you need me to try anything or provide logs etc.
On the plus side, I watched a full movie and didn't experience any audio dropouts at all.
Matt.
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Post by hsamwel on Jul 22, 2019 3:18:55 GMT -5
try update reboot set levels reboot re-set levels reboot re-set levels do the hokey pokey a rain dance call the witch doctor and take two asprin in the morning . I feel your pain. Even bought different source devices to fix my problems. I nearly gave up, but this thing is finally soo close to being right that I honestly believe there's light at the end of this tunnel. Yes, 1.4 is a huge step forward. I would expect the next or couple of next firmwares to fix most if not all problems.
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Post by hsamwel on Jul 22, 2019 3:32:56 GMT -5
Hi,
Over the weekend I installed the 1.4 firmware. Some great fixes in there. After the update, I factory reset the RMC-1, setup the speaker sizes/levels and figured I would try out my Lumagen Radiance Pro (firmware 042119) again.
The following setup works, but isn't ideal as I can't apply settings per input:
oppo 203 -> RMC1 -> Lumagen -> Sony 4K Projector
If I run with: oppo 203 -> Lumagen -> RMC1 -> Sony 4K Projector
The best I can get is PCM 2.0. I imagine it's an EDID issue somewhere, but no amount of unplugging or rebooting devices will get it to negotiate anything but PCM 2.0.
Please let me know if you need me to try anything or provide logs etc.
On the plus side, I watched a full movie and didn't experience any audio dropouts at all.
Matt.
Excuse my ignorance, but what does this Lumagen do? Is it really needed? I would expect your setup to work fine without it. Anyway unless it improves picture or sound quality I would remove it. Edit: Read about it. Now I understand why you would want to use it Really strange that putting the Lumagen after RMC would stop bitstream from working. Can Lumagen be configured to not receive audio?
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lgjr
Minor Hero
Posts: 42
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Post by lgjr on Jul 22, 2019 4:46:41 GMT -5
Oppo 203 set to bitstream - Lumagen Pro - RMC
On Equalizer 2 4k Went from 7.1 truehd atmos to dolbly digital 5.1 back and forth and audio formats changed and locked on almost immediately On Kill Bill vol 1 Went from dolby digtal 5.1 to uncompressed lpcm 5.1. Dolby digital 5.1 showed correctly, but; uncompressed 5.1 showed as PCM 2.0 On Equalizer 2 bluray went from dts hd ma 7.1 to dolby digital 5.1 to dts hd ma 5.1 and back/forth and everything went fine Worked as expected with dolby digital plus and dolby digital stereo With Oppo set to output lpcm everything showed as pcm 2.0
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doozer
Seeker Of Truth
Posts: 8
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Post by doozer on Jul 22, 2019 5:07:17 GMT -5
Excuse my ignorance, but what does this Lumagen do? Is it really needed? I would expect your setup to work fine without it. Anyway unless it improves picture or sound quality I would remove it. Edit: Read about it. Now I understand why you would want to use it Really strange that putting the Lumagen after RMC would stop bitstream from working. Can Lumagen be configured to not receive audio? The Lumagen is able to split audio and video via 2 HDMI outputs. The Audio only output gives the same result. Ideally I wanted to keep the RMC-1 in the video path as it then gives me on screen volume and input feedback.
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doozer
Seeker Of Truth
Posts: 8
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Post by doozer on Jul 22, 2019 5:09:19 GMT -5
Oppo 203 set to bitstream - Lumagen Pro - RMC On Equalizer 2 4k Went from 7.1 truehd atmos to dolbly digital 5.1 back and forth and audio formats changed and locked on almost immediately On Kill Bill vol 1 Went from dolby digtal 5.1 to uncompressed lpcm 5.1. Dolby digital 5.1 showed correctly, but; uncompressed 5.1 showed as PCM 2.0 On Equalizer 2 bluray went from dts hd ma 7.1 to dolby digital 5.1 to dts hd ma 5.1 and back/forth and everything went fine Worked as expected with dolby digital plus and dolby digital stereo With Oppo set to output lpcm everything showed as pcm 2.0 Yes, the Oppo is set to only output bitstream. Anything that could mess with the audio output has been disabled.
I believe the EDID being shown to either the Lumagen or the Oppo is for some reason negotiabled as PCM2.0
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Post by deewan on Jul 22, 2019 6:31:49 GMT -5
As reported to the Emotiva staff, I was also able to get the same crackle/static sound while watching Passengers using my movie streamer and a bit-for-bit copy of my BluRay, however that movie was viewed without an Atmos soundtrack. I'd have to go back and see what I logged for that movie. I think that there is something about your setup/ hardware that is simply incompatible with how the RMC1 handles audio. You have done this dance long enough and found a replacement that you are very happy with. At this point there really is no reason to drag this out any further. There are other processors also on the horizon should you wish to try those but I think that you are beating a dead horse by hanging onto the RMC1. I’m also guilty of holding out for too long but I just wanted to see if I could get to the point to where I could be happy and so far the answer has been no. That said I’m very happy for the end users who are enjoying what they bought and how far the dev. team has come along in listening and resolving the issues that were discovered. I forgot I was also getting the same crackle/static sound while watching Mad Max Fury Road on UHD and the Atmos track. I had to go back to my notes to find that (more on this later). Regarding my setup being the cause, that is a chance and the reason I attempted to find out what Emotiva was using for their test setups so I could try to eliminate my particular equipment from the equation, but we all know where that idea went. My RMC (RMC unit #2) displays these issues with only one source (Oppo 203) and one display device (JVC DLA-X790) connected. RMC #2 has shown these issues with both my JVC projector and secondary monitor connected, both connected individually. RMC #2 has shown these issues with two different brands of hdmi cables (Sewell and AudioQuest, both certified for 4k) used between devices. The only thing I keep coming back to is I know RMC #2 did have some hardware issues discovered and repaired by the Emotiva team when I sent it back to them and I wonder if there are more issues that went undiscovered. I recalled Mad Max also threw static into the channels because I was going back through my notes trying to determine if I heard the static from RMC #3 (the dinging chip). I didn't have any notes regarding #3 and the static, but my memory says I did test that and did not hear the static. I believe I even told Damon the #3 RMC didn't have static via phone conversation while discussing the dinging. RMC #3 did have a different version of FW than I had previously been using with the broken #2 RMC and I believe I attributed the lack of static to the firmware. Bit now I'm thinking the fix was a hardware solution that RMC #3 had that #2 did not. Goozoo, the only reason why I'm still in the RMC camp is the loss of my 40% card, the $100 return shipping and the countless hours I've spent trying to resolve issues with this processor. A close second is I'd like to have a processor with Dirac and the expansion modules, but honestly a working processor is my number 1 priority and for that reason I have the 8805 right now. It might be my stubbornness, but I sort of want to see this thing through to the finish. I hate to think all my time was wasted.
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Post by aswiss on Jul 22, 2019 7:33:33 GMT -5
First check with FW 1.4 - faster, more responsive (except that please wait Screen Thing)
My reported Bug, with TRIM not working when no Sub is active has been fixed as well.
Will check the rest during the day.
But - Thanks to Emo Team @keithl - this is a good step forward - keep doing.
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Lonnie
Emo Staff
admin
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain
Posts: 6,999
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Post by Lonnie on Jul 22, 2019 8:38:53 GMT -5
Hi, Over the weekend I installed the 1.4 firmware. Some great fixes in there. After the update, I factory reset the RMC-1, setup the speaker sizes/levels and figured I would try out my Lumagen Radiance Pro (firmware 042119) again. The following setup works, but isn't ideal as I can't apply settings per input: oppo 203 -> RMC1 -> Lumagen -> Sony 4K Projector
If I run with: oppo 203 -> Lumagen -> RMC1 -> Sony 4K Projector The best I can get is PCM 2.0. I imagine it's an EDID issue somewhere, but no amount of unplugging or rebooting devices will get it to negotiate anything but PCM 2.0. Please let me know if you need me to try anything or provide logs etc. On the plus side, I watched a full movie and didn't experience any audio dropouts at all.
Matt.
We intercept the EDID from the projector and replace the audio info frame to say that we can take all formats and up to 16 channels. The video info frames are untouched. This is passed onto the source device which in your case would be through the Lumegen. So while you have the Lumegen set to accept Bitstream, I'm wondering if it is capable of passing the bitstream on through or if its limited to 2 channel on the pass through and sends the bitstream out the audio only. Can you check with Lumagen and see? Lonnie
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Post by jim80z on Jul 22, 2019 8:58:39 GMT -5
The only thing I keep coming back to is I know RMC #2 did have some hardware issues discovered and repaired by the Emotiva team when I sent it back to them and I wonder if there are more issues that went undiscovered. I recalled Mad Max also threw static into the channels because I was going back through my notes trying to determine if I heard the static from RMC #3 (the dinging chip). I didn't have any notes regarding #3 and the static, but my memory says I did test that and did not hear the static. I believe I even told Damon the #3 RMC didn't have static via phone conversation while discussing the dinging. RMC #3 did have a different version of FW than I had previously been using with the broken #2 RMC and I believe I attributed the lack of static to the firmware. Bit now I'm thinking the fix was a hardware solution that RMC #3 had that #2 did not. Reading your previous note now this post I agree with what you wrote (esp the bit I your bold bit I underlined). I'd bet that there is something else wrong with unit #2 that was passed by due to finding the connections being broken as a quick fix. I know its a pain but if Emotiva could give/swap you a non dinging #3/4 unit you should be sorted. Not from the refurb pile but a new one to reduce the chance of inherent issues. Just a thought.
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Post by SOWK on Jul 22, 2019 9:10:26 GMT -5
I want to make sure this post gets read by Lonnie...
KeithL and Lonnie
When trying to "fix" the LFE issue.
Please keep these bass management/LFE rules in mind.
LFE information is boosted 10dB at the processor for the .1 channel ONLY crossover information sent to the .1 channel from the speakers set to small are NOT boosted 10dB (Low Pass filter)
Real world example:
If you externally send a 75dB full bandwidth pink noise signal into the .1 LFE channel directly it should be outputting 85dB. If you externally send a 75dB full bandwidth pink noise signal into any channel set to small (Do 200hz crossover) and unplug that speaker but leave the sub plugged in, it should be outputting 75dB.
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twism
Emo VIPs
Posts: 683
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Post by twism on Jul 22, 2019 9:27:24 GMT -5
Hi, Over the weekend I installed the 1.4 firmware. Some great fixes in there. After the update, I factory reset the RMC-1, setup the speaker sizes/levels and figured I would try out my Lumagen Radiance Pro (firmware 042119) again. The following setup works, but isn't ideal as I can't apply settings per input: oppo 203 -> RMC1 -> Lumagen -> Sony 4K Projector
If I run with: oppo 203 -> Lumagen -> RMC1 -> Sony 4K Projector The best I can get is PCM 2.0. I imagine it's an EDID issue somewhere, but no amount of unplugging or rebooting devices will get it to negotiate anything but PCM 2.0. Please let me know if you need me to try anything or provide logs etc. On the plus side, I watched a full movie and didn't experience any audio dropouts at all.
Matt.
I have a Lumagen Pro (4446) in my chain. I run all sources to my Lumagen then audio only to the RMC-1 and with this setup I get all the audio types. I have tried it the other way where audio and video pass through the RMC-1 and while I am able to get audio and video its not 100% stable, it was the same way with my Anthem AVM60, I would lose HDMI every once in a while so for a couple years now I just use the Lumagen for all switching as its been rock solid that way.
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twism
Emo VIPs
Posts: 683
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Post by twism on Jul 22, 2019 9:32:11 GMT -5
Hi, Over the weekend I installed the 1.4 firmware. Some great fixes in there. After the update, I factory reset the RMC-1, setup the speaker sizes/levels and figured I would try out my Lumagen Radiance Pro (firmware 042119) again. The following setup works, but isn't ideal as I can't apply settings per input: oppo 203 -> RMC1 -> Lumagen -> Sony 4K Projector
If I run with: oppo 203 -> Lumagen -> RMC1 -> Sony 4K Projector The best I can get is PCM 2.0. I imagine it's an EDID issue somewhere, but no amount of unplugging or rebooting devices will get it to negotiate anything but PCM 2.0. Please let me know if you need me to try anything or provide logs etc. On the plus side, I watched a full movie and didn't experience any audio dropouts at all.
Matt.
We intercept the EDID from the projector and replace the audio info frame to say that we can take all formats and up to 16 channels. The video info frames are untouched. This is passed onto the source device which in your case would be through the Lumegen. So while you have the Lumegen set to accept Bitstream, I'm wondering if it is capable of passing the bitstream on through or if its limited to 2 channel on the pass through and sends the bitstream out the audio only. Can you check with Lumagen and see? Lonnie Lonnie, I have been a Lumagen dealer for years, I can confirm that it will pass audio through. I use a Lumagen and don't have any issues with it passing through audio in any format.
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Post by hsamwel on Jul 22, 2019 10:05:28 GMT -5
I think that there is something about your setup/ hardware that is simply incompatible with how the RMC1 handles audio. You have done this dance long enough and found a replacement that you are very happy with. At this point there really is no reason to drag this out any further. There are other processors also on the horizon should you wish to try those but I think that you are beating a dead horse by hanging onto the RMC1. I’m also guilty of holding out for too long but I just wanted to see if I could get to the point to where I could be happy and so far the answer has been no. That said I’m very happy for the end users who are enjoying what they bought and how far the dev. team has come along in listening and resolving the issues that were discovered. I forgot I was also getting the same crackle/static sound while watching Mad Max Fury Road on UHD and the Atmos track. I had to go back to my notes to find that (more on this later). Regarding my setup being the cause, that is a chance and the reason I attempted to find out what Emotiva was using for their test setups so I could try to eliminate my particular equipment from the equation, but we all know where that idea went. My RMC (RMC unit #2) displays these issues with only one source (Oppo 203) and one display device (JVC DLA-X790) connected. RMC #2 has shown these issues with both my JVC projector and secondary monitor connected, both connected individually. RMC #2 has shown these issues with two different brands of hdmi cables (Sewell and AudioQuest, both certified for 4k) used between devices. The only thing I keep coming back to is I know RMC #2 did have some hardware issues discovered and repaired by the Emotiva team when I sent it back to them and I wonder if there are more issues that went undiscovered. I recalled Mad Max also threw static into the channels because I was going back through my notes trying to determine if I heard the static from RMC #3 (the dinging chip). I didn't have any notes regarding #3 and the static, but my memory says I did test that and did not hear the static. I believe I even told Damon the #3 RMC didn't have static via phone conversation while discussing the dinging. RMC #3 did have a different version of FW than I had previously been using with the broken #2 RMC and I believe I attributed the lack of static to the firmware. Bit now I'm thinking the fix was a hardware solution that RMC #3 had that #2 did not. Goozoo, the only reason why I'm still in the RMC camp is the loss of my 40% card, the $100 return shipping and the countless hours I've spent trying to resolve issues with this processor. A close second is I'd like to have a processor with Dirac and the expansion modules, but honestly a working processor is my number 1 priority and for that reason I have the 8805 right now. It might be my stubbornness, but I sort of want to see this thing through to the finish. I hate to think all my time was wasted. I have run the atmos track of Mad Max Fury Road and had no crackles. Although only the BD version. I will do full tests when I receive my 4k player tomorrow. A question, have you thought about this being some electrical fault? Do you have som filter connected or shooting straight from the wall socket? Do you have any other devices or whatever connected to the same phase that can cause disturbances? What about XLR cables? RMC is connected differently (hot/cold) than Marantz.. Do you use same cables for both? I know this is a longshot as Marantz is working fine.
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