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Post by aswiss on Oct 18, 2019 5:06:58 GMT -5
Yes - I use a HTPC with my RMC-1 - but with 3D I'm out - don't use this for years. And Industry also stopped to produce 3D Movies.
Question:
What Software do you use for playing 3D on the HTPC? What Files do you play?
When you write: 3D capable Intel Coffeelake, what exactly do you mean with this ?
When you know this: Intel have a known bug with 3D and HDMI 2.0 syncs - why would you go and try?
The RMC-1 can be set up for HDMI 1.4 on a specific HDMI In Port - so no worries about it. I tried to get UHD HDR running on a HTPC - and its not very succesful with standard Tools. MadVR and Stuff is not really HDR, its a calculated picture.
I use Kodi with my PC as a player - but since I have a Zidoo Z9S Box - mostly watch movies over this (also capable to do 3D and UHD with HDR).
For the 2-3 3D Movies I still have, I'll let them play over the oppo203. Thank you for the reply. I'm using a custom build of Kodi 18 for Windows with 3D MVC support. By 3D capable coffeelake I mean it is currently working with hardware 3D despite a lot of people saying the newer CPUs don't work; the truth is newer Intel NUCs don't work. We still get a few 3D releases here in Europe (eg. Godzilla, Aqauaman and End Game this year). The why I'm trying is the important bit I think. I need to make sure the Emotiva will switch between all the different types of bitstream audio tracks. My files are all MKV made by me and not re-compressed so much more consistent than most. Does the Emotiva switch audio formats properly with your Zidoo? What about your PC? Is it using integrated Intel graphics or an AMD/Nvidia card? Yes - with the Zidoo - the Audio Switch is fine for all watched movies so far, including DTS-HRA, DTS-MA, Atmos, DTC.x etc. - also switching between laguages (German and English, as German often has no Atmos) is flawless working. For Kodi Usage on Zidoo, there is ZDMC (a Kodi Fork) which comes pre-installed. I have .NFO Files created with TinyMediaManager for all ripped Material, and the onboard Player of the Z9S can import these during scanning. With the onboard player (as well as the ZDMC) Frame Switching is perfectly working. I'm very happy with this.
I'll try to figure out if there is any 3D Movie in my collection in order to test on Z9S, it's mentioned in the SPECS that its supported. But the Z9S is Android with als its limitation when it comes to music.
On my PC I had a Nnidia GTX960 running with Kodi - but when 4K with HDR was not really working on W10, I decided to go for the Zidoo.
The 960 is no longer installed (my son took it for his gaming PC ;-) ), 1080p Material is played fine, incl. all Sound Formats. Native Resolution on HTPC is now 1080p with the onboard Intel. HTPC is now used for music only with ROON and an external USB-DAC (which is connected with XLR to RMC-1).
I have also tested the new ODROID N2 Coreelec Box - Linux based - which is also playing everything under Kodi 18.4. This box is cheaper than the Z9S.
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Post by hsamwel on Oct 18, 2019 6:03:23 GMT -5
Try the Dumbledore Voldemort battle scene at the end of the 5th movie (Order of the Phoenix). It was the best use of immersive audio I have ever heard. I did not try it on my RMC yet. Ill pop it in tonight and report back, FWIW I am set up 7.1.4 For quite some time I was unable to get anything out of my middle overhead speakers in my 7.1.6 configuration. But I was using the sub left and sub right XLR outputs which may route sound differently than if you are using a dedicated overhead output. You could try to change your overhead speakers to front and see if they come alive. You can just mute/disconnect your bed channels and see what you hear through your height channels. As for DTS, this is where it’s gets stupid. ATMOS has top designation while DTS has height designation. What you pick for one on the processor will be wrong for the other format causing the renderer to bleed the sound into the bed channels. That said, depending on the resolution of your system, you may not be able to hear the difference. This is where having a graphical interface where speakers can be assigned per format is a MUST!; but then that’s just wishful thinking these days as it will be some time before this will be implemented on the RMC1. Finally, the DTS issues are related to streaming audio and not discs. So tonight I tried two things. First I replayed the Dumbledore / Voldemort scene David suggested, with the surrounds at -12 and heights at +12. I still heard nothing (even right next to the overheads). Then I went into setup and a checked out my options for the LR/RR Height I’m plugged into, as Front Height was not an option, I chose Rear Height. When I listened again with the same level settings, I could easily hear the overhead speakers. It appears that in a 7.2.2 configuration, DTS does not use middle heights, whether it’s because they’re heights or middles I don’t know. I’m beginning to see the dilemma in speaker selections, and another reason why having all selections for each channel is important. I may try replugging into LF/RF and try Front Heights when I have time. Thanks for the suggestions. Many DTS:X movies (most?) are fixed to a 7.1.4 setup with either top fronts and rears or front heights and rear heights. I don’t know if this just movies don’t using real objects or a limiting implementation from Emotiva. Probably the former. Maybe using objects but locked to a fixed speaker position like Keith has explained a couple of times. Edit: I Dolby recommends using top middle when having only x.x.2 speakers on the ceiling. But this setup is not working so good for most DTS:X movies. I would recommend using top front and placing them slightly infront instead of directly above the seating position.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Oct 18, 2019 10:04:42 GMT -5
So tonight I tried two things. First I replayed the Dumbledore / Voldemort scene David suggested, with the surrounds at -12 and heights at +12. I still heard nothing (even right next to the overheads). Then I went into setup and a checked out my options for the LR/RR Height I’m plugged into, as Front Height was not an option, I chose Rear Height. When I listened again with the same level settings, I could easily hear the overhead speakers. It appears that in a 7.2.2 configuration, DTS does not use middle heights, whether it’s because they’re heights or middles I don’t know. I’m beginning to see the dilemma in speaker selections, and another reason why having all selections for each channel is important. I may try replugging into LF/RF and try Front Heights when I have time. Thanks for the suggestions. Many DTS:X movies (most?) are fixed to a 7.1.4 setup with either top fronts and rears or front heights and rear heights. I don’t know if this just movies don’t using real objects or a limiting implementation from Emotiva. Probably the former. Maybe using objects but locked to a fixed speaker position like Keith has explained a couple of times. Edit: I Dolby recommends using top middle when having only x.x.2 speakers on the ceiling. But this setup is not working so good for most DTS:X movies. I would recommend using top front and placing them slightly infront instead of directly above the seating position. Thanks for the suggestion, I think the next time I have an opportunity I will replug my height channels so that I can access the front height option.
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 9,961
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Post by KeithL on Oct 18, 2019 11:30:06 GMT -5
Our new processors use the same volume control chips (CS3318 in the main zone and CS3308 in zone 2).
What exactly is your point? Is it that the 33xx series is capable of 0.25 dB and Emotiva choose 0.5 dB? Cheers Gary I want to know if the analog volume control in the RMC-1 & XMC-2 are still the CS3318 and CS3308 as described back in 2017 (¼ dB steps) or if they deployed a different solution (does the XMC-2 also use the CS3318 or dual CS3308s)? I.E. something custom along the lines of Benchmark's HPA4 stepped attenuator (½ dB steps). The Cirrus solutions are excellent and used in "high-end" preamps like the Classé SSP-800. The performance of something like the Benchmark is simply off the charts. >10dB Cirrus CS33x8 • -96 dB to +22 dB in ¼ dB steps • > 127 dB dynamic range (CS3318) • > 123 dB dynamic range (CS3308) • < -112 dB THD+N • > 120 dB inter-channel isolation Benchmark HPA4 • -122 dB to +15 dB range in ½ dB steps • THD < -125 dB • SNR > 135 dB, unweighted, 20-20 kHz • SNR > 137 dB, A-weighted • Crosstalk < -133 dB @ 1 kHz, -116 dB @ 10 kHz KeithL ? I've seen the dynamic limits of human hearing reported between 117dB - 119dB. I think its safe to say that anything ≥120dB is undetectable.
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Post by MonsieurAl on Oct 18, 2019 13:02:58 GMT -5
Frankly we fight the balls of the volume control chips CS3318 someone to a problem with the volume, tell us rather than what is going to make evolve this machine, an update for DTS is too much asked? for the money that has to be spent
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Post by nospam on Oct 18, 2019 17:20:58 GMT -5
Our new processors use the same volume control chips (CS3318 in the main zone and CS3308 in zone 2). Thanks Keith! I want to know if the analog volume control in the RMC-1 & XMC-2 are still the CS3318 and CS3308 as described back in 2017 (¼ dB steps) or if they deployed a different solution (does the XMC-2 also use the CS3318 or dual CS3308s)? I.E. something custom along the lines of Benchmark's HPA4 stepped attenuator (½ dB steps). You may have missed my earlier post but as Rich said in his avs forum post the RMC1 uses the CS3318 as described in your 2017 sheet On the feature page of the RMC1 and XMC2 are identical volume control solutions Yes, I had missed that. Thank you. Following the suggestion to search proboards with google site:, I found the posts I remember discussing the "fixed resistor ladder" volume control. There is no reference to Benchmark so that was a connection I must have made on my own. ... Since we are all talking about volume numbers, and how they do or don't matter, I will say that my 10+ year old Sony ES receiver that I have in my living room has adjustments by half numbers (at least as it approaches 0) and i find this to be a really useful feature. But the RMC-1 adjusts by whole number only as far as I've seen so far. I sure would like a finer degree of adjustment with .5 changes instead of whole numbers only, anyone else have an opinion on that? 1 dB is generally consider the smallest difference you can hear, but it does depend on frequency and where you are on the scale. I find 1 dB changes about right for me and I like not having to hit the remote too many times to get to a specific place, I also don’t ever have the feeling that (for instance) 14 is too quiet, but 13 is too loud (I once had an ARC SP-16 with that problem). I could probably live with 0.5 dB steps, but many people complained about the 0.25 dB steps on the DC-1. As cwt pointed out however, it may be what it is because of the fixed resistor ladder for the analog volume control, which is fine with me.
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Post by asiano on Oct 19, 2019 9:44:12 GMT -5
I'm setting speaker levels and all of my speakers (low setting) get to 65db either at 0 or +1 with the exception of my front left and right speakers. For those speakers, I need to set the level at +10db. I've never had to do this before. Is there a bug in the software for the levels?
I am using a different amp (more powerful) for the front left and right and those speakers have slightly lower sensitivity than my other speakers. I would understand a small increase in level (maybe +3), but +10 seems excessive. Also, I am on the current firmware.
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Post by emofrmcgy on Oct 19, 2019 9:47:51 GMT -5
I'm setting speaker levels and all of my speakers (low setting) get to 65db either at 0 or +1 with the exception of my front left and right speakers. For those speakers, I need to set the level at +10db. I've never had to do this before. Is there a bug in the software for the levels? I am using a different amp (more powerful) for the front left and right and those speakers have slightly lower sensitivity than my other speakers. I would understand a small increase in level (maybe +3), but +10 seems excessive. Also, I am on the current firmware. How much lower sensitivity and what is the gain for each amp?
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Post by asiano on Oct 19, 2019 10:06:13 GMT -5
I'm setting speaker levels and all of my speakers (low setting) get to 65db either at 0 or +1 with the exception of my front left and right speakers. For those speakers, I need to set the level at +10db. I've never had to do this before. Is there a bug in the software for the levels? I am using a different amp (more powerful) for the front left and right and those speakers have slightly lower sensitivity than my other speakers. I would understand a small increase in level (maybe +3), but +10 seems excessive. Also, I am on the current firmware. How much lower sensitivity and what is the gain for each amp? The main speaker's sensitivity is rated at 1db lower than my other speakers. The amp gain for the fronts is 4db lower than my amp for the remaining channels.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Oct 19, 2019 10:15:16 GMT -5
I'm setting speaker levels and all of my speakers (low setting) get to 65db either at 0 or +1 with the exception of my front left and right speakers. For those speakers, I need to set the level at +10db. I've never had to do this before. Is there a bug in the software for the levels? I am using a different amp (more powerful) for the front left and right and those speakers have slightly lower sensitivity than my other speakers. I would understand a small increase in level (maybe +3), but +10 seems excessive. Also, I am on the current firmware. How much lower sensitivity and what is the gain for each amp? emofrmcgy 's question is probably at the core of the issue. My L/R surround, and height speakers have identical drivers and crossovers, but are just in different cabinets, they are also using the same amp (actually the height amps have 1dB less gain). My level settings are generally within 1 or 2 dB of each other, so I don't believe in this case the 1.5 firmware is to blame. That said, I have seen some issues with the levels themselves if I set my speaker levels in setup, exit the setup menu, and then go back in; the speakers I just set now measure differently. I now start from a cold boot, and then setup all my levels without exiting. If I do need to exit the level setup, I start over. I haven't tried to duplicate this as I've been too busy, but I should try and then report it. Also, some have reported differences in subwoofer levels between the various FW.
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Post by bblv on Oct 19, 2019 10:30:06 GMT -5
I'm setting speaker levels and all of my speakers (low setting) get to 65db either at 0 or +1 with the exception of my front left and right speakers. For those speakers, I need to set the level at +10db. I've never had to do this before. Is there a bug in the software for the levels? I am using a different amp (more powerful) for the front left and right and those speakers have slightly lower sensitivity than my other speakers. I would understand a small increase in level (maybe +3), but +10 seems excessive. Also, I am on the current firmware. How much lower sensitivity and what is the gain for each amp? emofrmcgy 's question is probably at the core of the issue. My L/R surround, and height speakers have identical drivers and crossovers, but are just in different cabinets, they are also using the same amp (actually the height amps have 1dB less gain). My level settings are generally within 1 or 2 dB of each other, so I don't believe in this case the 1.5 firmware is to blame. That said, I have seen some issues with the levels themselves if I set my speaker levels in setup, exit the setup menu, and then go back in; the speakers I just set now measure differently. I now start from a cold boot, and then setup all my levels without exiting. If I do need to exit the level setup, I start over. I haven't tried to duplicate this as I've been too busy, but I should try and then report it. Also, some have reported differences in subwoofer levels between the various FW. How can the average RMC user that isn't following this thread religiously expect to know these nuances? There are still far too many of these types of issues to consider this a stable product. Haven't even fired mine up yet as I don't have the free time to deal with it until it's more stable.
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Post by deviate2112 on Oct 19, 2019 10:41:18 GMT -5
Update to the update.
Second unit arrived yesterday. I did a slow burn hooking everything up. First just power, let it get acclimated to my climate (lol) then my blu-ray player, tested...ok, moved to my HTPC...all ok. I set up the speakers etc, and played my first disc. Avenger End game....no center channel...WTF...so I went into settings to make sure I hadn't turned it off...nope...checked levels on the center...yup I have pink noise....went back to End game and Center sound was there....who knows why but all good right now.
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Post by wkingincharge on Oct 19, 2019 15:36:58 GMT -5
I continue to like this unit for it's incredible sound but wondering if I missed a setting. Did a demo for a potential RMC buyer and started on a preset optical input that's used for music listening in direct mode. I then switched to a movie and everything tracked including it picking up atmos. After that we went back to music however it kept trying to use a surround format instead of direct mode until I went into the setup and changed from a unused optical input back to my normal and all was fine. This was not my experience with the XMC.
Did I miss a setting somewhere for it to track my inputs???
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Post by nospam on Oct 19, 2019 17:10:03 GMT -5
In 9.1.6 config, found no difference in sound or immersion between using Tops vs Heights (both Front and Rear) with DD True HD/ATMOS movies. Did you use the Atmos (9.1.6) and/or Dts:X (7.1.4) channel callouts? You should observe a difference.
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Post by Geronimo on Oct 19, 2019 18:45:56 GMT -5
I continue to like this unit for it's incredible sound but wondering if I missed a setting. Did a demo for a potential RMC buyer and started on a preset optical input that's used for music listening in direct mode. I then switched to a movie and everything tracked including it picking up atmos. After that we went back to music however it kept trying to use a surround format instead of direct mode until I went into the setup and changed from a unused optical input back to my normal and all was fine. This was not my experience with the XMC. Did I miss a setting somewhere for it to track my inputs??? I manually set my default mode on each input. Try that for each preset.
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Post by lukewayne on Oct 19, 2019 21:06:58 GMT -5
emofrmcgy 's question is probably at the core of the issue. My L/R surround, and height speakers have identical drivers and crossovers, but are just in different cabinets, they are also using the same amp (actually the height amps have 1dB less gain). My level settings are generally within 1 or 2 dB of each other, so I don't believe in this case the 1.5 firmware is to blame. That said, I have seen some issues with the levels themselves if I set my speaker levels in setup, exit the setup menu, and then go back in; the speakers I just set now measure differently. I now start from a cold boot, and then setup all my levels without exiting. If I do need to exit the level setup, I start over. I haven't tried to duplicate this as I've been too busy, but I should try and then report it. Also, some have reported differences in subwoofer levels between the various FW. How can the average RMC user that isn't following this thread religiously expect to know these nuances? There are still far too many of these types of issues to consider this a stable product. Haven't even fired mine up yet as I don't have the free time to deal with it until it's more stable. I’d consider myself more interested than the average owner, I bought mine on day one, and tried to follow this thread, but it’s nearly impossible to follow, there are so many posts, both on and off topic, that it is very difficult to find the necessary information, or follow a problem through to its end. I’m hoping to get some available time to sit and write out the issues I’m having one at a time, but I intend to do it in separate threads. This thread has grown too massive to be useful in my opinion. I suggest others do the same. Make the titles very clear. “RMC-1 Owner Issue: .... “ for example.
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Post by lrobertson on Oct 19, 2019 21:09:35 GMT -5
How can the average RMC user that isn't following this thread religiously expect to know these nuances? There are still far too many of these types of issues to consider this a stable product. Haven't even fired mine up yet as I don't have the free time to deal with it until it's more stable. I’d consider myself more interested than the average owner, I bought mine on day one, and tried to follow this thread, but it’s nearly impossible to follow, there are so many posts, both on and off topic, that it is very difficult to find the necessary information, or follow a problem through to its end. I’m hoping to get some available time to sit and write out the issues I’m having one at a time, but I intend to do it in separate threads. This thread has grown too massive to be useful in my opinion. I suggest others do the same. Make the titles very clear. “RMC-1 Owner Issue: .... “ for example. They have an issue thread devoted to that. Maybe a search will bring it up.
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Post by lukewayne on Oct 19, 2019 21:56:13 GMT -5
I’d consider myself more interested than the average owner, I bought mine on day one, and tried to follow this thread, but it’s nearly impossible to follow, there are so many posts, both on and off topic, that it is very difficult to find the necessary information, or follow a problem through to its end. I’m hoping to get some available time to sit and write out the issues I’m having one at a time, but I intend to do it in separate threads. This thread has grown too massive to be useful in my opinion. I suggest others do the same. Make the titles very clear. “RMC-1 Owner Issue: .... “ for example. They have an issue thread devoted to that. Maybe a search will bring it up. Are you talking about this thread by deewan which is only for known issues and workarounds? I'm meaning for when you have either found an issue, or need help diagnosing an issue. deewan's thread is meant to list, in a compact space, known issues and their solution/workarounds. If there is another thread, I'd love to know about it! I haven't been able to find it. A search for "RMC issue" is filled with pages upon pages of this 240+ page thread.
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Post by lrobertson on Oct 19, 2019 21:59:57 GMT -5
They have an issue thread devoted to that. Maybe a search will bring it up. Are you talking about this thread by deewan which is only for known issues and workarounds? I'm meaning for when you have either found an issue, or need help diagnosing an issue. deewan's thread is meant to list, in a compact space, known issues and their solution/workarounds. If there is another thread, I'd love to know about it! I haven't been able to find it. A search for "RMC issue" is filled with pages upon pages of this 240+ page thread. Yup that’s the one. If that doesn’t work I don’t think it’s that hard to start a thread if you want one more specific.
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Post by maconi on Oct 20, 2019 3:17:40 GMT -5
Well I finally got around to hooking my RMC-1 up... and I'm at a complete loss lol.
It worked just fine at first. TV > RMC-1 > Blu-Ray Player. I noticed the RMC-1 was having trouble picking up the DTS-X track (it only wanted to pick up Dolby TrueHD) so I figured I would reboot the RMC-1 to see if that would help. Going from On > Standby > On didn't do anything. So I tried On > Standby > Off > On. That was a mistake.
Nothing I do will display video from the Blu-Ray Player anymore. I've tried every combination of Blu-Ray Player Off/On/HDMI Disconnected, RMC-1 Off/Standby/On/HDMI Disconnected, and TV Off/On/HDMI Disconnected. Switching inputs on the RMC-1 doesn't do anything either. I can even put a Blu-Ray in the Player and hit Play and watch the different audio/video codecs on the front display change around, but the TV still won't pick up a video signal from the RMC-1 anymore.
I'm using Monoprice 8K 48GBs HDMI cables so that shouldn't be the problem. All the HDMI-CEC stuff is turned off on the TV and RMC-1. Firmware is v1.5.
The only tips I've found so far are to use HDMI 2 Out (the ARC port), turn off the "Video Standby" feature on the RMC-1, and to also just try turning the Blu-Ray Player On/Off a bunch of times in a row in hopes that the RMC-1 finally catches the HDMI video signal. I've tried both HDMI Outs (seems like the OSD works better on HDMI 2) as well as turning off Video Standby but it didn't make a difference.
Connecting the Blu-Ray Player directly to the TV works fine. Connecting it to the RMC-1 gives a black screen. I've even did a factory reset on both the Blu-Ray Player and the RMC-1.
Hopefully I'm just overlooking something obvious, as it really shouldn't be this hard to operate a $5,000 "Rethink High End" product (I've seen that message too many times today restarting the RMC-1 over and over again). I've already spent too much time troubleshooting it today, but will give it another shot tomorrow. Hopefully I didn't somehow fry the HDMI board or something just by turning it off?
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