LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Mar 10, 2010 21:04:51 GMT -5
While I'll agree Oppo makes two really nice blu-ray players, Oppo's business & technical models don't have 8 power amplifiers/4 sets of speakers/cd transport/analog pre-amp/pre-pro and so many more soon to be released products on their plate.
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Post by Mike Ronesia on Mar 10, 2010 21:15:26 GMT -5
That would put them over the edge in a heartbeat! They do one thing and I hear they do it well but even I can juggle one ball...  |
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hemster
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Post by hemster on Mar 10, 2010 21:26:51 GMT -5
I already have products from both companies in my cabinet and I'm glad that these 2 companies are doing well in their respective fields. Obviously, one company cannot do everything well. Imagine if all broadcast networks were all owned by the same company. No more CNN, FOX, CBS, ABC... I'm not sure I'd be happy with XYZ (or whatever they'd call themselves..).
And for the record, even I can juggle 1 ball well.. or 2 balls with 1 eye closed! ;D
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Post by gocolts on Mar 10, 2010 22:49:46 GMT -5
I dreamt that Oppo bought out Emo (and re-named the company EmOppo or Optiva - I prefer Optiva) and they immediately instituted their technical, product release, and customer service savvy across the the entire Optiva line. Now, wouldn't THAT be an AV-lovers dream come true?!? We probably would have had the UMC-1 in our hands almost a year ago, the XMC-1 would be on-sale and would be THE BEST PRE-PROCESSOR on the market, regardless of price! And Optiva's firmware update procedures would be known as the the best in the business as would their Customer Service and and Public Relations departments. Please don't get me wrong, I really do like the folks at Emo and I think they are among the nicest in the business, but they sure could do themsleves and their entire customer base a HUGE favor by thoroughly studying and then implementing Oppo's business and technical models. Or just cash in their chips and let Optiva do the heavy lifting while Big Dan, et al retire to their newly-purchased Caribbean real estate - Optiva Island!! And imagine the AV powerhouse that Optiva would become virtually overnight by absorbing the entire Emo product line and then instituting their manufacturing prowess, processes, and procedures in the production and distribution of said products. In one fell swoop, Optiva would crush Yamaha, Onkyo, Denon, HK, Bose, and Sony (hooray!!) and virtually run all those guys out of the home AV business. And, if Optiva then bought out Vizio (and called the new company Optivio), they could offer a complete, extremely well-engineered and realistically-priced AV system that would, in short order, be the envy of the entire AV world. And, best of all, Sony would FINALLY be exorcised from the home entertainment business once and for all!!! They could then stick with producing what they know best - professional video recording, editing, and playback equipment. Imagine the ticker-tape parade that would be thrown for such a momentous and long-overdue! I'm even willing to bet that Shoichiro Toyoda and Tiger Woods would *gladly* finance the entire cost of the parade just to divert the news media's attention from their current problems. I also know that I would be MIGHTY proud to have an all-Optivio AV stack blasting away in my man-cave... -RW- As long as it means customer beta testers would be implemented by Oppo's people for future processors to avoid firmware fixes 3 seconds after the product goes on sale, then I'm in full support. |
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tb123
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Post by tb123 on Mar 11, 2010 3:38:20 GMT -5
While I'll agree Oppo makes two really nice blu-ray players, Oppo's business & technical models don't have 8 power amplifiers/4 sets of speakers/cd transport/analog pre-amp/pre-pro and so many more soon to be released products on their plate. and not the same issues..... Perhaps there is a point where one can bite off more than one can chew, or do justice to something. Maybe sticking to what you are really good at and have a few smaller products to keep things interesting, rather than trying to be all things to all people. Just saying and all, but hey, good luck to them if they can pull it off  |
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hemster
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Post by hemster on Mar 11, 2010 3:50:33 GMT -5
So should Harley Davidson buy Segway?... both have excellent products that work very well.
There's a lot to be said for sticking with one's core business. Otherwise we'd all be buying everything labeled 'Great Value' at Walmart!
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Post by Casey Leedom on Mar 11, 2010 3:54:03 GMT -5
I've been in the product release business for a very long time. Software, but honestly as far as the process of doing QA, it's really all the same. You're always balancing all sorts of issues. Time to market, feature competitiveness, quality and customer support, etc. One of the biggest truisms in the business is: quality, schedule, features ... pick two. But even when you resign yourself to the truth of that wisdom, you still have execution ...
One can do your best job and push the result out after "reasonable" QA ... only to find that your customers end up using your products in ways that expose bugs you never saw. Then you can resolve to "never have that happen again" and put in enormous efforts at in-house QA before releasing your product ... to find that yet again your customers end up using your products in environments and with differing inputs which expose bugs which you never saw.
The right answer is to engage in a layered QA process which includes in-house and Engaged BETA testers. You get the product mostly good via Good Engineering Practices (unit test vectors, QA engagement, etc.) and start phasing in BETA testers when the new in-house bug rate starts dropping (there's really no point in starting ALPHA or BETA testing before the in-house new bug rate starts dropping).
If anything, watching this process from outside, I'd say that the UMC-1 depended too much on trying to crush all of the bugs with in-house testing and not enough on a moderate number of BETA testers. This is what made Oppo's BDB-83 rollout so successful.
Plus, the automatic update over the internet. Yeah, that's great. Hhmmm, definitely put that in. :-)
Note that I have both Emotiva and Oppo products and I'm happy with both.
And, as an engineer, I know that there's always room to improve the process.
Casey
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cgolf
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Post by cgolf on Mar 11, 2010 5:03:27 GMT -5
So should Harley Davidson buy Segway?... both have excellent products that work very well. There's a lot to be said for sticking with one's core business. Otherwise we'd all be buying everything labeled 'Great Value' at Walmart! Other than OPPO, EMO & Harley we're probably closer to the "Great Value" than we thinks!!!!! ;D |
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cgolf
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Post by cgolf on Mar 11, 2010 5:08:09 GMT -5
OPPO's model is to produce 1 product and they are excellent at what they do. Most companies don't do that. Is the right model electronics or just amps, or just processors or just CD players or just speakers,......  Who knows.. They've all been tried--some successful, some not so successful. Lots of variables involved. I'm in commercial construction. We build things but we are also looking to diversify right now because of the economy. Times they are a changing and they are getting more interresting every day..  |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Mar 11, 2010 5:55:21 GMT -5
Hmmm...a Harley Segway with an Oppo player with Emo amps and speakers...talk about "get your motor running" (but head out on the sidewalk...).
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Post by raylock on Mar 11, 2010 6:35:58 GMT -5
Well, I am retired now but during my working life I have seen a lot of great products come from small companies. When the products were unique in some way, function, quality, service and captured the attention of a significant number of customers, the company is almost always bought by a larger company or merged with someone else to gain the economies of scale. With scale comes a division of interests and delegation. The qualities that made the products so attractive in the first place are spread across a broader range of products and in the process are diminished. So, I hope that Dan stays with the current mode of operation for a few more years so I can continue to enjoy receiving a higher quality product at an attractive price. I am one of the people who pound Emotiva for some lapses in communication, but at least there IS communication. As the old saying goes Low price, high quality, fast service......pick any two. I think Emotiva has it about right.
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Post by moe on Mar 11, 2010 7:24:43 GMT -5
Maybe OP should go to Oppos forum and ask them to make a prepro.I presume it would start out cheap,then be midpriced,then high dollar,but still look cheap.I also presume it would work pretty well and cost the same as many other good prepros,a few $k.
Oh yeah,be sure to tell em' you want 40% off your next OPPO.
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Post by gocolts on Mar 11, 2010 8:12:44 GMT -5
Maybe OP should go to Oppos forum and ask them to make a prepro.I presume it would start out cheap,then be midpriced,then high dollar,but still look cheap.I also presume it would work pretty well and cost the same as many other good prepros,a few $k. Oh yeah,be sure to tell em' you want 40% off your next OPPO. And it speaks to one core thing- Emotiva has absolutely NO competition at their pricepoint. None! Outlaw? Go look at their product line and get back to me....Emotiva has them licked at about everything. So, why would Emotiva change anything??? They didn't learn anything from the LMC-1 rollout when it comes to customer beta testers, but why should they? They can afford to get sloppy when it comes to their public relations (Dann's departure and their ignoring of his accusations, for instance) and shipment expectations of products, not to mention their spotty communication when it comes to new products. But....what are people going to do? Go spend A LOT more? Some will, and some will find good deals on other gear, but the majority will just wait. Emotiva makes an incredible product for the price, and I think we just all need to learn to accept the shortcomings that go along with it. It's just hard as to me, some of the things people are complaining about are SO easy to fix....  I'd love if another company got into the market at a similar quality and pricepoint as Emotiva. I think it'd force them to really get focused on the different things people have mentioned above. The XPR-7, for instance. We were promised an update BY CHRISTMAS, but nothing yet. What are we going to do though? Go buy another 400 x 7 amp for a reasonable price? Yea, right. ;D Competition brings out the best in everyone involved. Until then, I'm not anticipating a lot of change. |
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Post by Wideawake on Mar 11, 2010 8:20:43 GMT -5
I've been in the product release business for a very long time. Software, but honestly as far as the process of doing QA, it's really all the same. You're always balancing all sorts of issues. Time to market, feature competitiveness, quality and customer support, etc. One of the biggest truisms in the business is: quality, schedule, features ... pick two. But even when you resign yourself to the truth of that wisdom, you still have execution ... One can do your best job and push the result out after "reasonable" QA ... only to find that your customers end up using your products in ways that expose bugs you never saw. Then you can resolve to "never have that happen again" and put in enormous efforts at in-house QA before releasing your product ... to find that yet again your customers end up using your products in environments and with differing inputs which expose bugs which you never saw. The right answer is to engage in a layered QA process which includes in-house and Engaged BETA testers. You get the product mostly good via Good Engineering Practices (unit test vectors, QA engagement, etc.) and start phasing in BETA testers when the new in-house bug rate starts dropping (there's really no point in starting ALPHA or BETA testing before the in-house new bug rate starts dropping). If anything, watching this process from outside, I'd say that the UMC-1 depended too much on trying to crush all of the bugs with in-house testing and not enough on a moderate number of BETA testers. This is what made Oppo's BDB-83 rollout so successful. Plus, the automatic update over the internet. Yeah, that's great. Hhmmm, definitely put that in. :-) Note that I have both Emotiva and Oppo products and I'm happy with both. And, as an engineer, I know that there's always room to improve the process. Casey +1 Gazillion. As a fellow IT veteran, I could not agree with you more. This post is spot on!!! |
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eiger
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Post by eiger on Mar 11, 2010 10:12:29 GMT -5
So should Harley Davidson buy Segway?... both have excellent products that work very well. There's a lot to be said for sticking with one's core business. Otherwise we'd all be buying everything labeled 'Great Value' at Walmart! Not the best analogy. I don't think the OP was refering to the technologies as much some very core and fundemental things that Oppo has in terms of the business model. One that comes to mind for me is LARGE BETA DEPLOYMENTS and TESTING IN THEIR PROJECT PLAN and based on above results, dictates RTM dates. |
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Post by cleatus on Mar 11, 2010 10:15:14 GMT -5
I've been in the product release business for a very long time. Software, but honestly as far as the process of doing QA, it's really all the same. You're always balancing all sorts of issues. Time to market, feature competitiveness, quality and customer support, etc. One of the biggest truisms in the business is: quality, schedule, features ... pick two. But even when you resign yourself to the truth of that wisdom, you still have execution ... One can do your best job and push the result out after "reasonable" QA ... only to find that your customers end up using your products in ways that expose bugs you never saw. Then you can resolve to "never have that happen again" and put in enormous efforts at in-house QA before releasing your product ... to find that yet again your customers end up using your products in environments and with differing inputs which expose bugs which you never saw. The right answer is to engage in a layered QA process which includes in-house and Engaged BETA testers. You get the product mostly good via Good Engineering Practices (unit test vectors, QA engagement, etc.) and start phasing in BETA testers when the new in-house bug rate starts dropping (there's really no point in starting ALPHA or BETA testing before the in-house new bug rate starts dropping). If anything, watching this process from outside, I'd say that the UMC-1 depended too much on trying to crush all of the bugs with in-house testing and not enough on a moderate number of BETA testers. This is what made Oppo's BDB-83 rollout so successful. Plus, the automatic update over the internet. Yeah, that's great. Hhmmm, definitely put that in. :-) Note that I have both Emotiva and Oppo products and I'm happy with both. And, as an engineer, I know that there's always room to improve the process. Casey +1 Gazillion. As a fellow IT veteran, I could not agree with you more. This post is spot on!!! +eleventy billion! AND I volunteer to beta a XMC... |
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Post by gocolts on Mar 11, 2010 10:31:42 GMT -5
^^You guys are all raising very good points. This hobby attracts detail-oriented people who get into the "how" and "why" of business problems. As an auditor it's what I do for a living, and I know from experience the IT side is even more focused on this. Many companies pay for good feedback like this... |
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Post by Casey Leedom on Mar 11, 2010 11:08:51 GMT -5
^^You guys are all raising very good points. This hobby attracts detail-oriented people who get into the "how" and "why" of business problems. As an auditor it's what I do for a living, and I know from experience the IT side is even more focused on this. Many companies pay for good feedback like this... Yes, hence the use of the term "Engaged BETA Testers" I used in my note. It does no good to have BETA testers who either don't send notes in on issues or, worse yet, send vague notes in with no details. As a BETA tester in any product space you must be prepared to take detailed notes, essentially debugging the issue yourself to the greatest degree possible, and potentially work closely with the engineering staff on narrowing down causes. For instance, with the Oppo BDP-83 BETA testers you saw many dedicated people sending in problematic DVDs, SACDs, DVD-As along with detailed notes on how to reproduce the issues. This detailed "pre-debugging" enabled the Oppo engineers to find the problem rapidly. I expect that some of the BDP-83 BETA testers probably spent many, many hours at this process. They of course benefitted by making the product better and most of them treated it as a fun extension of their hobby but don't think that being a BETA tester is easy ...  Casey |
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Post by gocolts on Mar 11, 2010 13:07:04 GMT -5
^^You guys are all raising very good points. This hobby attracts detail-oriented people who get into the "how" and "why" of business problems. As an auditor it's what I do for a living, and I know from experience the IT side is even more focused on this. Many companies pay for good feedback like this... Yes, hence the use of the term "Engaged BETA Testers" I used in my note. It does no good to have BETA testers who either don't send notes in on issues or, worse yet, send vague notes in with no details. As a BETA tester in any product space you must be prepared to take detailed notes, essentially debugging the issue yourself to the greatest degree possible, and potentially work closely with the engineering staff on narrowing down causes. For instance, with the Oppo BDP-83 BETA testers you saw many dedicated people sending in problematic DVDs, SACDs, DVD-As along with detailed notes on how to reproduce the issues. This detailed "pre-debugging" enabled the Oppo engineers to find the problem rapidly. I expect that some of the BDP-83 BETA testers probably spent many, many hours at this process. They of course benefitted by making the product better and most of them treated it as a fun extension of their hobby but don't think that being a BETA tester is easy ... Casey And I have no doubt Emotiva could have gotten plenty of volunteers for the same reason you mentioned- it'd be a fun extention of their hobby. To me it's a no-brainer to utilize such a dedicated fanbase as Emotiva has in this manner. |
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tangible
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Post by tangible on Mar 11, 2010 13:43:14 GMT -5
Dan Laufman as a business owner must always assess his goals for himself and for the company. I can't speak for the man, but for most, those goals usually include what's known as an 'exit strategy'. Sell it to a partner, sell it to the employees, take it public, etc. Ya gotta retire at some point (although he's having good fun right now, and good for him - we're the winners here too).
Your OPTIVA dream is just that - a fantasy. To think that an essentially single-product company could suddenly take over and manage multiple product lines well beyond their competence range (amps, processors and speakers are not playback devices) is at best a reach. Worse, Oppo's business model is about to crater. Ever downloaded a movie? Think the 'cloud' isn't a factor in mass media? Think again about how much gear Oppo can sell.
How's that going to fund them buying Emo?
But to quote the Sundance Kid:
"you just keep thinkin' Butch - that's what you do best"
BTW
Sony in the professional markets has made NO MONEY in recent years. They've bought what business they've achieved in monitors, only recently became profitable in VTR equipment despite having no real competition (and tape is nearing it's end of life cycle, with no Sony replacement of substance), and are throwing cameras at the wall hard in an attempt to stave off a bunch of other vendors. It's a highly cyclical business and their cycle hasn't been up.
Net assessment - "may you live in interesting times" - we do.
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Who knows.. They've all been tried--some successful, some not so successful. Lots of variables involved.
