ratmice
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Post by ratmice on Mar 12, 2010 8:39:56 GMT -5
why don't you set your volume to say 35 or 40 for example and set it to that every time you run speaker cal... That's what you have to do. I counter with the question: why doesn't it do it for you so you always have the same starting point? |
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Post by moe on Mar 12, 2010 8:57:15 GMT -5
One answer,I like to make my own starting point.I personally see this as a non issue,but it's the Emotiva forum,where everything is an issue.
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ratmice
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Post by ratmice on Mar 12, 2010 9:17:03 GMT -5
One answer,I like to make my own starting point.I personally see this as a non issue,but it's the Emotiva forum,where everything is an issue. Well it actually is an issue, but no one's saying it's a major problem. Just a few days ago someone posted that regardless of the trims applied to their speakers they could not balance at 75 dB and was wondering what was wrong. That's because this unit has a volume dependent test tone, which is different than any other product out there, and not documented in the manual. (Yes, I know the manual isn't final). So what about that scenario makes this a non-issue? Non-standard implementation is an issue. We're just discussing the quirks of the unit in an attempt to make it as great as it's potential. p.s. standards, like reference playback, are not be subject to individual whim. Feel free to have your own preferred playback level, but don't pretend it's reference. |
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Post by aboroth00 on Mar 12, 2010 10:39:38 GMT -5
One answer,I like to make my own starting point.I personally see this as a non issue,but it's the Emotiva forum,where everything is an issue. Well it actually is an issue, but no one's saying it's a major problem. Just a few days ago someone posted that regardless of the trims applied to their speakers they could not balance at 75 dB and was wondering what was wrong. That's because this unit has a volume dependent test tone, which is different than any other product out there, and not documented in the manual. (Yes, I know the manual isn't final). So what about that scenario makes this a non-issue? Non-standard implementation is an issue. We're just discussing the quirks of the unit in an attempt to make it as great as it's potential. p.s. standards, like reference playback, are not be subject to individual whim. Feel free to have your own preferred playback level, but don't pretend it's reference. NADs have volume dependent test tones. Never really bothered me. I went over once with an AVIA disc and again with the internal test tones and it yielded similar results. You're right though, there isn't a real problem with this because all you have to do is turn the volume knob to read 75db on your spl meter. I'm not sure what you mean by a standard reference playback, isn't it just an arbitrary number? I'm sure once everything is calibrated, it's just a matter of determining whether the material is too loud or too soft. |
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ratmice
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Post by ratmice on Mar 12, 2010 11:23:48 GMT -5
Well it actually is an issue, but no one's saying it's a major problem. Just a few days ago someone posted that regardless of the trims applied to their speakers they could not balance at 75 dB and was wondering what was wrong. That's because this unit has a volume dependent test tone, which is different than any other product out there, and not documented in the manual. (Yes, I know the manual isn't final). So what about that scenario makes this a non-issue? Non-standard implementation is an issue. We're just discussing the quirks of the unit in an attempt to make it as great as it's potential. p.s. standards, like reference playback, are not be subject to individual whim. Feel free to have your own preferred playback level, but don't pretend it's reference. NADs have volume dependent test tones. Never really bothered me. I went over once with an AVIA disc and again with the internal test tones and it yielded similar results. You're right though, there isn't a real problem with this because all you have to do is turn the volume knob to read 75db on your spl meter. I'm not sure what you mean by a standard reference playback, isn't it just an arbitrary number? I'm sure once everything is calibrated, it's just a matter of determining whether the material is too loud or too soft. Take a peek at my previous post. The idea is that you can get the audio volume that the sound engineers want for playback of the media source. That's where the 75 dB number comes from. With all speakers trimmed for output SPL, that volume (which corresponds to a certain pre-out voltage) where each speaker produces SPL of 75 dB is considered reference volume. If you play back your source at reference volume you will get what the sound engineers want you to hear, and what theaters are calibrated to produce, as well. Additionally, If I play a source at reference on my system, I can go to your house and play it at reference, and in theory it should sound the same. In this instance the term "reference volume" has a very specific meaning, more than just the definitions of the two words. It's similar, in spirit, to the term "cheese food" that has a very specific definition much more than just food that has cheese in it. Just ask the FDA  . |
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hemster
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Post by hemster on Mar 12, 2010 11:24:38 GMT -5
Turning the volume knob to read 75dB with the SPL meter is the method I used. How much you turn the vol knob depends on the speakers, room, etc. and will vary per system. Reference to reference levels is fine and dandy but most people don't listen to reference levels, just preference levels.  |
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ratmice
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Post by ratmice on Mar 12, 2010 11:55:47 GMT -5
Turning the volume knob to read 75dB with the SPL meter is the method I used. How much you turn the vol knob depends on the speakers, room, etc. and will vary per system. Reference to reference levels is fine and dandy but most people don't listen to reference levels, just preference levels. True. And you're getting the same end result that way, but wouldn't it make sense to have the level automatically done for you so it's consistent. That way you don't get the problem referredt to in my prior post where the trims aren't sufficient to calibrate speaker level because the volume is too high or too low. |
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Post by aboroth00 on Mar 12, 2010 12:05:14 GMT -5
NADs have volume dependent test tones. Never really bothered me. I went over once with an AVIA disc and again with the internal test tones and it yielded similar results. You're right though, there isn't a real problem with this because all you have to do is turn the volume knob to read 75db on your spl meter. I'm not sure what you mean by a standard reference playback, isn't it just an arbitrary number? I'm sure once everything is calibrated, it's just a matter of determining whether the material is too loud or too soft. Take a peek at my previous post. The idea is that you can get the audio volume that the sound engineers want for playback of the media source. That's where the 75 dB number comes from. With all speakers trimmed for output SPL, that volume (which corresponds to a certain pre-out voltage) where each speaker produces SPL of 75 dB is considered reference volume. If you play back your source at reference volume you will get what the sound engineers want you to hear, and what theaters are calibrated to produce, as well. Additionally, If I play a source at reference on my system, I can go to your house and play it at reference, and in theory it should sound the same. In this instance the term "reference volume" has a very specific meaning, more than just the definitions of the two words. It's similar, in spirit, to the term "cheese food" that has a very specific definition much more than just food that has cheese in it. Just ask the FDA . If by "standard" reference playback you mean the Dolby reference level, then yes it is set at 75db with 30db peaks to hit 105 db. While 0 is the convention, I don't believe it's absolutely necessary. The reference volume is still an arbitrary convention as sound is still all relative. I don't believe there is an actual desire for sound engineers to make playback only at 75db but it was constructed toward a standard or reference. Whether your pre/pro's reference level is 0 or -14, it doesn't really affect anything as long as your speakers are calibrated correctly. I believe everyone will choose a certain volume to their fitting above or below whatever the reference point on their receiver is. |
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Post by aboroth00 on Mar 12, 2010 12:08:55 GMT -5
Turning the volume knob to read 75dB with the SPL meter is the method I used. How much you turn the vol knob depends on the speakers, room, etc. and will vary per system. Reference to reference levels is fine and dandy but most people don't listen to reference levels, just preference levels. True. And you're getting the same end result that way, but wouldn't it make sense to have the level automatically done for you so it's consistent. That way you don't get the problem referredt to in my prior post where the trims aren't sufficient to calibrate speaker level because the volume is too high or too low. To achieve 75 db in a room, might vary greatly, depending on many factors. While it is true that our rooms are relatively small and our speakers relatively efficient it would make sense for most modern receivers to output a certain preout voltage at 0db. Whether this is the end of all ends remains a debate. Who knows I might stick my UMC-1 when i get it in a 10000 ft^3 room. I don't believe this is an issue or a problem. Perfectly manageable situation which takes a little more effort. I'm sure everyone can live with it. |
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Post by moe on Mar 12, 2010 13:04:38 GMT -5
That's because this unit has a volume dependent test tone, which is different than any other product out there
That is absolutely INCORRECT,maybe for mass mrkt Pioneer etc....You may want to own a wider variety of gear before making total blanket statements.
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Post by aboroth00 on Mar 12, 2010 13:25:02 GMT -5
That's because this unit has a volume dependent test tone, which is different than any other product out there That is absolutely INCORRECT,maybe for mass mrkt Pioneer etc....You may want to own a wider variety of gear before making total blanket statements. I'm sorry Moe, what do you think is incorrect? No need to be offensive around here. |
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Post by billmac on Mar 12, 2010 15:49:54 GMT -5
One answer,I like to make my own starting point.I personally see this as a non issue,but it's the Emotiva forum,where everything is an issue. Of course you do not see it as an issue . If the UMC-1 had a preset volumes for the test tones you would be saying that would be your preference ;D. If you think everything is an issue here on the Lounge maybe you might want to try a different forum . Just because you do not find something here as an issue does not mean others here can not discuss it in a civil manner. I strongly believe the more UMC-1 owners discuss the issues with the UMC-1 the better handle Emotiva will have on what is going on in peoples systems. You just seem to want to argue any point that is even the slightest bit negative towards Emotiva. Other than your rather abrupt posts this thread has been very civil and helpful to some (myself included) about the test tone levels with the UMC-1. Emotiva will most likely leave the test tones as volume dependent but it would be helpful if it was mentioned in the future versions of the UMC-1s manual. Bill |
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Post by flamingeye on Mar 12, 2010 16:45:55 GMT -5
I do not see this as an issue , but it should be stated in the user manual clearly so there is no confusion so people no how to prosed when doing manual calibrations
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Post by RayoVac on Mar 12, 2010 16:51:24 GMT -5
I do not see this as an issue , but it should be stated in the user manual clearly so there is no confusion so people no how to prosed when doing manual calibrations Yes... it would be nice if it had a blurb like: "Set your Left Channel Level to 0, then start the Test Tone... increase or decrease Volume to achieve 75db on your SPL meter. Level remaining channels using this reference." And of course this should mean that "starting channel" you use to set reference, wether it is Left, Center, Right etc. should always be at 0 (Zero) in the levels... Right? |
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ratmice
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Post by ratmice on Mar 12, 2010 17:01:47 GMT -5
That's because this unit has a volume dependent test tone, which is different than any other product out there That is absolutely INCORRECT,maybe for mass mrkt Pioneer etc....You may want to own a wider variety of gear before making total blanket statements. If you're going to quote me, please use the quote button so we can all follow along. Most of the people in the forum are probably used to mass market Pioneer etc...and I was gearing my comments to them. Can you point out a manual that discusses the volume dependence of the test tones? Maybe one from the vast array of equipment you've owned that has that feature? Maybe then I can become edumicated. See, I am amenable to being wrong, and learning. P.S. in the example I was describing the poster obviously had the same expectations I did in regards to the test tones, and subsequently thought something was wrong. So, no matter what you think, this behavior can be perceived as a problem. |
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ratmice
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Post by ratmice on Mar 12, 2010 17:05:38 GMT -5
Bill the second quote you have there from moe, is actually my words, posted by him, with no attribution. See above ^^^^ my last post
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Post by billmac on Mar 12, 2010 17:12:34 GMT -5
I do not see this as an issue , but it should be stated in the user manual clearly so there is no confusion so people no how to prosed when doing manual calibrations I agree as long as you are aware of the way the master volume plays a role when you are settings speaker levels with the UMC-1s test tones. Having this in the manual is key as you point out. The big issue for me is the test tone for the sub which is not very accurate in the least. I find it is best to set the sub by ear or use a calibration disc to set all levels. But when I tried DVE the sub was way too hot but DVE is known to have issues with the test tones for the sub on their discs. I'm hoping the sub test tone is corrected with the upcoming FW update. Bill |
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Post by billmac on Mar 12, 2010 17:20:00 GMT -5
Bill the second quote you have there from moe, is actually my words, posted by him, with no attribution. See above ^^^^ my last post Mat, Thanks I edited my post  . It would be good if the quote feature was used correctly. That could be yet another issue at the Emotiva Lounge that we can discuss ;D. Bill |
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Post by billmac on Mar 12, 2010 18:13:24 GMT -5
Yes... it would be nice if it had a blurb like: "Set your Left Channel Level to 0, then start the Test Tone... increase or decrease Volume to achieve 75db on your SPL meter. Level remaining channels using this reference." And of course this should mean that "starting channel" you use to set reference, wether it is Left, Center, Right etc. should always be at 0 (Zero) in the levels... Right? Ray, Good point as I was just setting the master volume at 34 then running the test tones. So your way of setting the L front at 0 then turning up the master volume till reaching 75 is a much better way to go . I just have to remember to use the volume knob on the UMC-1 as any change in volume with the remote will knock out the setup menu. I will try this tomorrow at possibly high noon as I hear that is the best time to do any calibrations . |
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Post by RayoVac on Mar 12, 2010 21:23:03 GMT -5
Heck... I did not even think to try the master volume. When I was messing with mine, I just kept going back in forth out of the menu until I got it correct. |
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. It would be good if the quote feature was used correctly. That could be yet another issue at the Emotiva Lounge that we can discuss ;D.