Erwin's House & Homecinema project

[Erwin.BE]

Please check out the B&W in cabinet sub-woofers:
bw.keycast.com/med/Libraries/3/CTSW10.pdf

I am planning a HT with the B&W CT700 in cabinet speaker system. Main channels are to be Emotiva powered (of course!) but what about the sub-woofers? I plan to use 2 sub-woofers for sure. This range has a choice of 3 passive sub-woofers (10, 12, 15 inch) of which up to 2 identical SW can be powered by the B&W SA 1000. This amplifier is pricey (1600 € I think) but it comes with the usual frequency crossover settings you need. Can the Emotiva UMC/XMC/RMC do the crossover setting instead? Thus, I could use a pair of XPA-1 to power the 2 CT SW15 I would prefer.

The middle CT SW12 is recommended for 1000Watt/4ohm while the CT SW15 is recommended for 1000Watt/8ohm. I presume (not sure) the SA 1000 is 1000Watt/8ohm, not 4ohm. So if I see this right, the SA 1000 is good for 2 SW12 (4ohm) or only 1 SW15 (8ohm). Or go with 2 XPA-1 instead?

[Deleted]

What a great system you are assembling here. I certainly hope you will post some photos during and after your project. I will have to leave the external sub amp question to the guys that are more knowledgeable.

I found this B&W system very intriguing and spent some time looking into it. I hope you don't mind if I provide some links below for our other members to consider including a very complimentary review. The CTSW 10, 12, and 15 sub manual is available for pdf download for anyone who wants to check out the amp further. This amp appears to be an excellent dedicated amp/controller specifically designed for these subs. The only part that was informative to me was that it had a sub out speaker connections for either one sub or two subs, total 4 ohms:

".....Subwoofer Amplifier Controls
The SA1000 subwoofer amplifier front panel carries
the following controls.
Volume: Sets the overall volume of the subwoofer.
Filter: Sets the low-pass cut-off frequency of the
subwoofer filter.
Low-pass In/Out: Engages or defeats the subwoofer
filter.
Phase: Reverses the subwoofer output phase.
Bass Extension: Provides three bass extension
options.
Movie/Music EQ: Provides equalization options for
music or movie programme material.
On/Auto/Standby: Provides switch-on and standby
options.

Status Indicator: Illuminates to indicate the amplifier is
switched on.
Fault Indicator: Illuminates to indicate a fault condition.
Connecting the Subwoofer
All connections should be made with the equipment
switched off.
The CT SW10, 12 and 15 have a pair binding post
connection terminals and one Neutrik Speakon
connection socket on their rear panels. The binding
post terminals provide quick and easy connection of
stripped wires while Speakon sockets provide a more
secure and reliable connection method.
If the binding post terminals are to be used, connect
the positive cable to the red terminal and the negative
cable to the black terminal. Incorrect connection can
result in poor imaging and loss of bass. Figure 1
illustrates use of the binding post terminals.
If the Speakon option is to be used, disassemble the
Speakon plug as shown in Figure 2. Connect the
positive cable to the terminal marked +1 and the
negative cable to the terminal marked -1. Incorrect
connection can result in poor imaging and loss of
bass. Once the plug is reassembled it can be inserted
into the socket and locked by twisting clockwise.
Ask your dealer for advice when selecting speaker
cable. Keep its total impedance below the maximum
recommended in the speaker specification and use a
low inductance cable.
Connecting the Subwoofer Amplifier
All connections should be made with the equipment
switched off.
The SA1000 amplifier has two pairs of binding post
connection terminals and one four-pole Neutrik
Speakon connection socket on its rear panel. The
binding post terminals provide quick and easy
connection of stripped wires while Speakon sockets
provide a more secure and reliable connection
method. Two identical subwoofers can be connected
to the amplifier through use of either the two pairs of
binding posts or the supplied four-pole Speakon plug.
If the binding post terminals are to be used, connect
the positive cable or cables to the red terminals and
the negative cable or cables to the black terminals.
Incorrect connection can result in poor imaging and
loss of bass. Figure 3 illustrates the use of the binding
post terminals to connect one or two subwoofers.
If the Speakon option is to be used, disassemble the
Speakon plug as shown in Figure 2 connect the
positive cable to the terminal marked +1 and the
negative cable to the terminal marked -1. Terminals +2
and -2 are to be used when two subwoofers are
connected. Incorrect connection can result in poor
imaging and loss of bass. Once the plug is
reassembled it can be inserted into the socket and
locked by twisting clockwise. Figure 4 illustrates the
use of the Speakon plug to connect one or two
subwoofers.
Connect the signal input to the subwoofer amplifier
using either the RCA phono or XLR options. A second
subwoofer amplifier can be daisy-chained from the
first by connecting to either the RCA phono or XLR
output sockets......"


hometheaterreview.com/bowers-wilkins-ct-700-series-loudspeakers-reviewed/

bw.keycast.com/med/Libraries/3/CT7.3.pdf


;D ;D ;D

[Erwin.BE]

Chuckienut,

Some work is still needed... see the attached photo from this Sunday. Hoping to finish the exterior cladding by the end of this summer after which we can concentrate on the inside... It's a multi-year project really (both budget and work-load related).

But on the topic: I heard the CT700 system 2 times.

First was @ a Dutch dealer (iEar) who had the larger CT7.3 as LCR and the small CT7.5 in the side as surround and 1 CT SW12 powered by the SA1000. Speakers were powered by the Rotel 15-series (forgot which one, 1575 -250W/ch- I think). Positioning was perfect, space was a zone in the showroom with light movable drywalls. There was some rattling going on, caused by the fact that this was only a temporary set-up (you need decent cabinets and you have to isolate the speaker from this cabinet using proper foam insulation, especially the SW). But all in all it sounded great with BluRay (Marantz player). Powerful and accurate. The larger CT7.3 uses very good FST mid-ranges (fixed Kevlar) like my CM7 towers. These are the ones to have. My CMC center does not have the FST and this, IMO, causes a huge difference in sound when I watch a music video and switch between DPLII Music (little to no center content) and DPLII Movie (to much content to the center). The CMC is also to small for decent mid-bass.

Second time was @ a show in a Brussels hotel: the room was a small meeting room, set-up was the middle CT7.4 as LR and the small CT7.5 as center and surround. SW was the 12" again. Power was the Rotel 1565 (100W/ch) I think. It was not bad, but not as good as the first time. And on top of this, the surround were placed in the back, not to the side.

My tip would be to avoid the 7.4 which adds little to the small 7.5, but suffers of poorer imaging and sound dispersion because of the 2 horizontal mid-bass cones in stead of one. And add a 2nd SW.

A good system for a smaller room would be 5*CT7.5 (UPA-5 powered) and 2*CT SW10 (1*SA1000)
A step-up would be the CT7.3 as LCR (XPA-5 powered) and 2*CT SW12 (1*SA1000) for average size rooms

My dream for the HT / family room would be a processor with DPLIIz (with Heights) and video matrix (to send video to the living Room independent). I even emailed with Audissey to discuss a DSX set-up with Wides. But in the end the room can not accommodate the Wides in the design I settled for, so only the Heights survive. There's also little point in Rears in our layout. We also need to use in ceiling speakers for the surround (OTOH, we could use the XT-4 which can be mounted on the posts between the windows if they don't stick out to far). B&W has a CT-700 matching series of in-wall and in-ceiling speakers coming very soon (EDIT: already avalable)
So, the system should have 3*CT7.3 LCR (200 watt) / 2*CT7.5 Height LR (120 watt) (put upside down for better sound dispersion) / 2*CCM7.3 in ceiling Surround LR. Subs would be 2*CT SW15 powered by 2*SA1000 (if not Emotiva XPA-1). Matching power would be 5*UPA-1 (LCRS) and 1*UPA-2 (Height LR), 1*XPR-7 for all would probably be a bit to much.

The cabinet in the front surrounds the screen (10' wide) with 2 (L/R) tall units (2.5' wide) LR which contain from top to bottom: the Heights (L/R), the Fronts (L/R) and the SW (L/R). Below the screen would be a 2.5' "cupboard" holding the center, connecting the tall units. Black stained oak, matte finish. I would put 2" thick sound insulation with black cloth behind the screen. Drywall ceiling will be double-plated with a special heavy thin sheet sandwiched in between for sound insulation, HT-zone will have a thick black carpet (rest of room and house is white PU surface) and a 2" thick acoustic ceiling (black) that is promised to me to be good with bass too. There's a kitchen and dining table (hence no wides) on the far right side. Left and rear wall are 100% glass, with heavy black curtains. Do you see it?

general info b&W in-wall/in-ceiling:
news.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/10381/591365.html
the folder:
www.nicollpr.com/BowersWilkins/Files/B&W%20CI%20600_700%20Series/CI_700Series_LR%20copy.pdf
Already on B&W website:
www.bowers-wilkins.com/display.aspx?infid=4840

[Deleted]

Really a lot of detail for us to digest. Sounds great, the photos will allow me to see it better. ;D

[Erwin.BE]

A lot has shifted these last 2 weeks. I don't take me for a fool, that's why I change my mind all the time.

Searching for a cheaper SW amp, I did 1 better: with help from Mike P from Hometheatershack.com, I designed a pair of DIY subs for the HT.

The Exodus Maelstrom 18" were suggested, each powered by their own rack-mount Behringer EP4000 amp in bridged mode. Yeah, the 4000 means 4000 Watts /4ohm
In the end I will probably settle for the EPX3000 which is 3000W/4ohm but runs cooler and uses less power because it's class H, not AB. If Emotiva wants to step in with a 1500 to 3000 Watt class D SW amp, let me know!

The Maelstrom 18" pair was delivered yesterday. Yes, that's correct, the house isn't built yet, but the SW pair will be put together very soon. It will be a LLT (large & low tuned) tower design, tuned to 13Hz. For this you need 550 liters nett air volume (some 20 cubic feet) with a large port. Tuned to 13Hz means 13 Hz with +/- ZERO dB! Note that your average commercial sub is DIN (minus 6dB) and the minus 3 dB is also posted most of the time. -3dB is half as loud & -6dB is half of half = 1/4 as loud.

Emotiva is a sponsor there, so here's the link to the discussion if you are interested in the process:
www.hometheatershack.com/forums/diy-subwoofers-general-discussion/27065-sw-type-our-ht.html

And that's not all, because I am eyeballing a big-gun LCR DIY project also, because the B&W CT7.3 was a budget compromise (even @ 1500 € each) because what I really wanted if money was no object, were the B&W CT8.2. These cost 5500 € each (so it's like 20K $ for a trio).

[Deleted]

Very interesting post Erwin. I read thru that Shack thread. Some of those folks really know subs, especially the DIY designs. The sub you are building is a real monster. It should get to 10Hz or below in-room at -3dB's which is the American standard deviation. WOW!

What a great project. Thanks so much for keeping us in mind at the Emotiva Lounge. Maybe you'll be one of the first to buy the XPR-7. We look forward to more updates. ;D


We're talking about two of these folks in a custom built enclosure driven with 3000 watts/4 ohms per driver! I hope that house Erwin is building conforms to Chilean earthquake standards.


Exodus Maelstrom-X 18" Subwoofer

[mookieb]

I've got 3 CT7.4s up front in my theater. They're really good....

[roadrunner]

For that "itty-bitty" sub woofer project you will need to build the HT room with 4x6 studs, on 18" center with lots of fiberglass insulation. Anything less than a bomb shelter construction would walk across the foundation when feeding 3000 W to those dual 18" drives. ;D ;D Oh, don't forget to properly anchor the furniture in the HT. The vibrations would make the furnishing resemble a game of foosball.

You are going to have one fantastic sound system. It reminds me of the movie clip from "BACK TO THE FUTURE" where Marty is standing in front of the giant subwoofer with his hair and clothes flapping in the wind. lol You will be using a lot of rebar in the foundation, right?

Seriously, you are undertaking a very ambitious HT project. I am jealous.

[Erwin.BE]

Nov 24, 2010 1:26:28 GMT -5 mookieb said:

I've got 3 CT7.4s up front in my theater. They're really good....

Missed this post! Pics? Details?

[Erwin.BE]

Here's where the house build stands now. Pic was just before Christmas. Bad weather forces me to proceed with the SW build instead. But better weather is anounced, so I better hurry.

Attachments:

[Erwin.BE]

The panels were prepared back in April and put aside. This is after a day of assembly.

Can someone tell me how to insert multiple pics?

Attachments:

[Matt193]

Looking good!

You can't insert multiple pics unless you host them yourself and then embed them in the post.

[mookieb]

Jan 6, 2011 21:19:42 GMT -5 Erwin.BE said:

Nov 24, 2010 1:26:28 GMT -5 mookieb said:

I've got 3 CT7.4s up front in my theater. They're really good....

Missed this post! Pics? Details?

I have 3 7.4s up front in a dedicated theater. I love them. I had Paradigm Studio 100s first, then Emotiva ERM 6.3/6.2....now the B&W, which are the best in my setup and for me. I liked them so much I picked up some 7.5s for a 2.1 family room setup.

Attachments:

[mookieb]

Jan 9, 2011 18:16:08 GMT -5 mookieb said:

Jan 6, 2011 21:19:42 GMT -5 Erwin.BE said:

Missed this post! Pics? Details?

I have 3 7.4s up front in a dedicated theater. I love them. I had Paradigm Studio 100s first, then Emotiva ERM 6.3/6.2....now the B&W, which are the best in my setup and for me. I liked them so much I picked up some 7.5s for a 2.1 family room setup.

Its difficult to find info on the CT series speakers and subwoofers. I found one editorial review on the SW15, and not a whole lot on any of the speakers.

I would have loved to have 7.3s, but my cabinet size limited my choice.

If only the 8.4s weren't $4K each!!!!

[Erwin.BE]

Jan 9, 2011 18:20:21 GMT -5 mookieb said:

Jan 9, 2011 18:16:08 GMT -5 mookieb said:

I have 3 7.4s up front in a dedicated theater. I love them. I had Paradigm Studio 100s first, then Emotiva ERM 6.3/6.2....now the B&W, which are the best in my setup and for me. I liked them so much I picked up some 7.5s for a 2.1 family room setup.

Its difficult to find info on the CT series speakers and subwoofers. I found one editorial review on the SW15, and not a whole lot on any of the speakers.

I would have loved to have 7.3s, but my cabinet size limited my choice.

If only the 8.4s weren't $4K each!!!!

Well, I never found any review on the CT800 system. I know from a Dutch guy that works at B&W UK that the pics you see on the website and in the brochure, are from a setup at the factory. They also don't sell more than a few and i suppose those kind of folks woild be privative...

I heard a CT7.3 LCR and smaller CT plus one of the medium SW in a showroom in Holland. Pre-pro and power were the top Rotel 15-series. Blu-ray was the top Denon. Result was great! Later I heard a CT7.4 LR and CT7.5 for center and surrounds powered by a Rotel AVR. Have to say I was less impressed. The larger CT7.3 are three-way and use the FST midrange. I would either pick the CT7.3 or the smallest CT7.5: better driver layout vs 7.4 IMO. The CT-700 as a whole sounded far better than the competing Klipsch system. More musical!

Some reviews:
German:
www.areadvd.de/lm/AV_Hardware/test_bwct700r.shtml

American:
hometheaterreview.com/bowers-wilkins-ct-700-series-loudspeakers-reviewed/

I also have a pdf on my HD about an Australian Batcave styled HT. It's 2Mb, so can't post it. Anyone who wants it can send me their e-mail in PM and I will mail it.

[Erwin.BE]

I attached one front panel today.

Attachments:

[Erwin.BE]

On this pic, not from our hous ofcourse, you can see how we want the colour scheme of the house:
Exterior: mostly black, but driveway etc is in white cobblestones.
Interior: mostly white, some details are black (like the HT-zone in the leisure room)
The one with the blue glasses is my misses...

Attachments:

[Erwin.BE]

Those LLt cabinets have been gathering dust long enough and the Behringer NU6000 is now avalable so I ordered one, which I connected today!

Spent the afternoon making decent speaker connects with the neutriks. No way that you will insert a 6 mm2 speaker wire straight into those Neutrik NL2FC cable connectors. I terminated the wires with the proper "shoes" that you fix with a special plier (which I bought since I am building a house anyway). Those went in and fitted perfectly in the Neutriks.

Same decent termination of the same 6 mm2 wires inside the LLT subs. It will never get undone, no matter how heavy things get in there!

Then we moved the LLT's from the workplace (after some heavy vacuming) to my old showroom beneath my living room.

Since the Emotiva ERC-1 has XLR outputs, I went straight from there into the NU6000 (which accepts no RCA). I used both L+R. The NU6000 was set to mono and the LF/HF splitter on (100Hz crossover). So channel A (+100) went to an old Philips tower and the lows (-100) from channel B went to one LLT.

Started the 2 devices, with volume to nought. Immediately, the Behringer started it's loud fan. I was aspecting to hear the fan, but this is really loud, unacceptable for home duties. It's as loud as when you rip a CD with 22x speed. A mod will be needed, or else a ventilated soundproof box?

Turning up both A & B and everything seemed in perfect working order. I had me burned a CD with some neat bass on it, like PIL, Jah Wobble, Basement Jaxx, Yazoo, James Blake and a couple of tracks of the Radiohead TKOL RMX project. As aspected, it was James Blake's Limit To Your Love that got the whole house vibrating... but not rattling. Als this with only 30% off the volume and zero calibration.

That's it for now folks. I need to work my but off to finish the house: I am determined to install the HT Jan 2013! In the mean time: the ERC stays with the Behringer in testing position, since I only listen to the Mac mini as a source these days on the set with the Jamo's.

[aliminas]

I wonder how your SW compares to the ones i would normaly turn to, Danley DS-10 or Tuba HT; nice work, anyways.
By the way, one of my favourite sub amps is Crown K-2. Stays cool, fairly powerful and no fan!

[Darksky]

Can you post build pics of the house? I would like to see the header and joists in the roof of the main straucture. I really like the open build style. Kudos on your work. Bradley