UMC-1 is back on track

[Topend]

Now the UMC-1 is back on track with final firmware about to be release, I will soon have to decide on getting the UMC-1 or wait for the XMC-1. Emotiva, please, please give us an updated time frame for the release of the XMC-1. I am expecting an email any day now advising me my UMC-1 will be ready to ship and I want to make the most informed decision.

Thanks,
Dave.

[BillBauman]

I hate to say it, but I think that Emotiva learned a hard (and unfortunate) lesson with their extreme transparency on a couple previous products. If you say "it's almost there" or "we expect it to ship on mm/yy" there is a very LOUD minority/majority? that will never let you out of it and will cast it in stone and throw it back at you if you do not deliver an absolutely perfect product at that exact time. Even then, I think they'll complain. So, Emotiva has done the only thing they can do (and for good reason) at this point, and they've clammed up. We don't get the regular XMC update anymore. When it's ready, it's ready. It will have certain features, and it won't have others. And that will be that. It's really a shame, I wish we could know more. At the same time, I completely understand.

I suggest you buy the UMC-1. It is the most under-priced Pre/Pro in existence, maybe ever. If you decide to shift to the XMC-1, you might be able to get full value for it, or maybe lose $50 or $100. That's selling it and KEEPING the upgrade certificate, I'd imagine. It's going to go up at least $100, I predict $200. Those are my guesses nothing official, but i stick by them. You'll get to have a UMC-1 until the XMC-1 is ready, and at most, you'll pay a small rental fee.

[BillBauman]

I meant, I predict $100-$200 increase. It will probably be in the middle there around $150, maybe edging up to $200 at some point.

[ratmice]

Apr 3, 2010 16:42:59 GMT -5 BillBauman said:

I hate to say it, but I think that Emotiva learned a hard (and unfortunate) lesson with their extreme transparency on a couple previous products. If you say "it's almost there" or "we expect it to ship on mm/yy" there is a very LOUD minority/majority? that will never let you out of it and will cast it in stone and throw it back at you if you do not deliver an absolutely perfect product at that exact time.

Untrue and a wild bit of hyperbole. What the problem is revolves around the total lack of communication as the perceived deadlines fade into the past. A simple OFFICIAL statement that, for instance, things are a bit more complicated and we had to push back the firmware release would stop virtually all the posts. Instead, as expected, the vacuum gets filled up.

[Spiky]

Apr 3, 2010 19:09:13 GMT -5 ratmice said:

Apr 3, 2010 16:42:59 GMT -5 BillBauman said:

I hate to say it, but I think that Emotiva learned a hard (and unfortunate) lesson with their extreme transparency on a couple previous products. If you say "it's almost there" or "we expect it to ship on mm/yy" there is a very LOUD minority/majority? that will never let you out of it and will cast it in stone and throw it back at you if you do not deliver an absolutely perfect product at that exact time.

Untrue and a wild bit of hyperbole. What the problem is revolves around the total lack of communication as the perceived deadlines fade into the past. A simple OFFICIAL statement that, for instance, things are a bit more complicated and we had to push back the firmware release would stop virtually all the posts. Instead, as expected, the vacuum gets filled up.

That's an impressive proof of Bill's statement. Perfect example, I congratulate you, sir.

[DYohn]

It was off track? News to me.

[billmac]

Apr 3, 2010 19:31:08 GMT -5 DYohn said:

It was off track? News to me.

The sale of the UMC-1 has been stopped for at least several weeks due to waiting for the new FW so you wouldn't consider that off track?

Bill

[DYohn]

Apr 3, 2010 19:36:15 GMT -5 billmac said:

Apr 3, 2010 19:31:08 GMT -5 DYohn said:

It was off track? News to me.

The sale of the UMC-1 has been stopped for at least several weeks due to waiting for the new FW so you wouldn't consider that off track?

Bill

No, I don't. It may not have gone exactly according to the initial hopeful plan, but it seems like a normal new product introduction process to me.

[ratmice]

Apr 3, 2010 19:23:57 GMT -5 Spiky said:

Apr 3, 2010 19:09:13 GMT -5 ratmice said:

Untrue and a wild bit of hyperbole. What the problem is revolves around the total lack of communication as the perceived deadlines fade into the past. A simple OFFICIAL statement that, for instance, things are a bit more complicated and we had to push back the firmware release would stop virtually all the posts. Instead, as expected, the vacuum gets filled up.

That's an impressive proof of Bill's statement. Perfect example, I congratulate you, sir.

If you think so, then you are missing the point. Have a nice day.

[BillBauman]

Apr 3, 2010 19:09:13 GMT -5 ratmice said:

A simple OFFICIAL statement that, for instance, things are a bit more complicated and we had to push back the firmware release would stop virtually all the posts. Instead, as expected, the vacuum gets filled up.

While I don't necessarily outright disagree with you, it is not quite that simple. Emotiva appears to have wanted to treat its customers as "friends". Ad-hoc, throw out information whenever they feel like it, whenever they get excited about something new, etc. In doing so, they announce something, then don't come back around for a while. When they do, everyone's pissed.

Two approaches will address this.

One, the approach you apparently desire. Pre-announcements, with regular, public updates of progress. Official announcements, followed by official updates, and official update announcements, accompanied by official updates on progress of bug fixes, feature enhancements. An official, public list of all bugs, known, confirmed, reported, unconfirmed, possible, impossible, blue, and orange.

I think it's pretty clear, at this point, Emotiva either can not or will not follow this approach to your (read: that of many) liking.

Two, the approach we are likely to encounter more and more as time goes on. Simply say nothing. Give no early announcements about anything. No product concepts, no product details, etc. Then, if a product (that we don't know exists) slips for 2 years, who cares? If a product (that we don't know exists) gets canceled, no harm, no foul. If a product (that we don't know exists) misses a ship date and needs 6 more months of beta testing, well, hopefully it ships after that.

I support either approach. I think approach 2 is about all that's left at this point. It's too bad, because there are plenty of us that are happy to hear about Emotiva's flights of fancy, fun ideas, new products, and the difficulties in making them a reality that delay them 2 to 3 years. But, there are those that want to plan their entire lives, seemingly, around the exact release date of these products as perfect, infallible works of electronics. And those folks seem to scream the loudest.

And here we are, all hyperbolic, typing away at each other.

[billmac]

Apr 3, 2010 19:41:36 GMT -5 DYohn said:

No, I don't. It may not have gone exactly according to the initial hopeful plan, but it seems like a normal new product introduction process to me.

You gotta love it . If we were talking about a prepro from Denon, Onkyo, Pioneer or Yamaha it would be a disaster in the making from the gang here with a full weenie roast ;D. But seeing it is not all is good.

Bill

[ratmice]

There really is some middle ground between your two approaches. Nowhere did I, or anyone for that matter, demand full accountability about all that is going on, which is what your approach one is. It was a very nice straw man to set-up however. A few comments, now and then would be nice. That's all. No demands, no perfection. Just a bone now and then.

[LCSeminole]

Apr 3, 2010 19:58:31 GMT -5 billmac said:

Apr 3, 2010 19:41:36 GMT -5 DYohn said:

No, I don't. It may not have gone exactly according to the initial hopeful plan, but it seems like a normal new product introduction process to me.

You gotta love it . If we were talking about a prepro from Denon, Onkyo, Pioneer or Yamaha it would be a disaster in the making from the gang here with a full weenie roast ;D. But seeing it is not all is good.

Bill

Bill, Are you implying that Denon, Onkyo, Pioneer or Yamaha get constantly berated on the Lounge? If so, the Moderators needs to be informed about this, I won't tolerate that any more than Emotiva being berated. I do encourage civil, adult-like conversation without personal attacks.

[billmac]

Apr 3, 2010 20:07:35 GMT -5 LCSeminole said:

Bill, Are you implying that Denon, Onkyo, Pioneer or Yamaha get constantly berated on the Lounge? If so, the Moderators needs to be informed about this, I won't tolerate that any more than Emotiva being berated. I do encourage civil, adult-like conversation without personal attacks.

Hi Laurence,

Really nothing specific just what I have seen mentioned in the past when other products are brought up as alternatives to the UMC-1 and the negatives are mentioned freely. If someone has a dislike for Onkyo I can fully understand as their track record specifically for service is far from stellar . But I'm not going to go on continuously on how Onkyo gets a bad rap even though I have had good luck with their products. I guess my point is there is not a problem criticizing other companies products when the criticism is justified. But if some here criticize Emotiva even if it is justified it is not really well received from some here . I feel it works both ways IMO.

The new 5507/80.1 prepros were released recently and there was a month or more that both units were not stocked. Could there have been issues with the units or they were just slow in production not really sure. But I would say that the release for both the 5507/80.1 was "off track" and now its back "on track" .

Bill

[Nodscene]

If I were to hazard a guess, I'd say they are keeping quiet because no matter what they do people complain (fairly loudly I might add). They are in a no win situation and I believe they know it. Once bitten twice shy as they say. I'm also pretty sure they have their hands full what with new staff members (don't remember if it's 1 or 2), new subs, DAC in the works, UMC1 firmware, XMC, new speakers etc etc.

[LCSeminole]

Apr 3, 2010 20:26:18 GMT -5 billmac said:

Apr 3, 2010 20:07:35 GMT -5 LCSeminole said:

Bill, Are you implying that Denon, Onkyo, Pioneer or Yamaha get constantly berated on the Lounge? If so, the Moderators needs to be informed about this, I won't tolerate that any more than Emotiva being berated. I do encourage civil, adult-like conversation without personal attacks.

Hi Laurence,

Really nothing specific just what I have seen mentioned in the past when other products are brought up as alternatives to the UMC-1 and the negatives are mentioned freely. If someone has a dislike for Onkyo I can fully understand as their track record specifically for service is far from stellar . But I'm not going to go on continuously on how Onkyo gets a bad rap even though I have had good luck with their products. I guess my point is there is not a problem criticizing other companies products when the criticism is justified. But if some here criticize Emotiva even if it is justified it is not really well received from some here . I feel it works both ways IMO.

The new 5507/80.1 prepros were released recently and there was a month or more that both units were not stocked. Could there have been issues with the units or they were just slow in production not really sure. But I would say that the release for both the 5507/80.1 was "off track" and now its back "on track" .

Bill

Bill, I don't follow many other companies and their products very closely, and only if I'm interested at that. Did Onkyo say why their pre/pro's stopped production for that time period? Just curious.

As for the criticizing of Emotiva, I don't have a problem with stating problems with the products, it is when the "piling on effect" and the re-statement of the same problems over and over again that seem to bring out the personal berating of forum members, thus the "battle of words" and non-adult reactions. Again I don't condone bashing of any manufacturers in the forum and I encourage members to bring that to my attention or another moderator. I will completely admit that keeping up with every thread on the forum is a task, so again I ask members to bring up potential problems to my attention that may arise. To those that have brought a few to my attention I want to thank you.

[RSavage]

Apr 3, 2010 19:58:31 GMT -5 billmac said:

If we were talking about a prepro from Denon, Onkyo, Pioneer or Yamaha it would be a disaster in the making from the gang here with a full weenie roast

Wow....I guess I must be reading an entirely different forum. The only roasted weenies I've seen around here belong to Emotiva.....and I seriously doubt that's due to the competition's superlative offerings.

R

[jdskycaster]

I tend to lean toward the side of keeping products that are in development under wraps. At the same time I understand that small companies like Emotiva are trying to build closer relationships with their customer base and by including this information foster's that relationship while at the same time driving demand for future products.

I have worked for several global manufacturers and in each case the R&D efforts have always been under lock and key and on a "need to know" basis for several reasons. A couple of examples include protecting your product roadmap from the competition and allowing the sales force to better position and sell solutions that are on the truck today. If the customer is constantly lusting after the next greatest thing in your lab in many cases they will be less motivated to make a purchase now.

I side on the belief that less information of what is coming can be better for everyone in the long run. In my 25 years of experience in the world of tech under-promising and over-delivering has never put my job in jeopardy or was cause for customer dissatisfaction.

The primary issue with communication of information is that everyone has a different definition of what constitutes an acceptable response level. For some it may be fine to receive monthly or even quarterly updates. For others weekly or even daily is not enough. Meeting these varying degrees of expectation are almost impossible and will always set you up for failure in someone's eyes.

Best Regards,

JD

[billmac]

Apr 3, 2010 20:41:29 GMT -5 LCSeminole said:

Bill, I don't follow many other companies and their products very closely, and only if I'm interested at that. Did Onkyo say why their pre/pro's stopped production for that time period? Just curious.

Laurence,

No reason was given and as typical with Onkyo you would never get one unless you had a mole on the inside .

As for the criticizing of Emotiva, I don't have a problem with stating problems with the products, it is when the "piling on effect" and the re-statement of the same problems over and over again that seem to bring out the personal berating of forum members, thus the "battle of words" and non-adult reactions. Again I don't condone bashing of any manufacturers in the forum and I encourage members to bring that to my attention or another moderator. I will completely admit that keeping up with every thread on the forum is a task, so again I ask members to bring up potential problems to my attention that may arise. To those that have brought a few to my attention I want to thank you.

I guess bashing is one thing but discussing a products flaws no matter which company it is in a civil respectful way should not be an issue I would think. I have seen several threads locked lately that were I thought informative other than a select few on both sides that might go too far. I think those select few should face possible ban or at least be banned from that specific thread instead of locking the threads. Just a thought .

Bill

[moe]

Denon,Oinkyo,Pioneer,Yamaha....great companies,fine products,not quite up to UMC standards of audio but still really great products.I'd say yes the UMC is on track.