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Post by ghstudio on Aug 13, 2010 14:38:52 GMT -5
right now, I'd say one of the stars is blue and the other two would be gold....but we'll see after the next update I love the sound but the other annoyances are driving my wife and I nuts. (I don't use or plan to use Emoq although I may set up some tailored eq curves similar to what you might find in a car radio or car eq...and my sub is the actually the same distance as my fronts). The jury is still out on the value of Dolby Volume because I can't tell any difference between low/med/high...and volumes seem to jump all over the place, even with dolby volume on...but that may be due to FIOS/STB/HDMI.....and, of course, my umc-1 is calibrated correctly . Prior to calibration Dolby Volume was just awful....
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Post by Brian on Aug 13, 2010 15:10:11 GMT -5
Know is a subjective word. 99% of the folks whose homes I visit have sound systems from walmart, target, sams or Best Buy...they bought on price and advertising and perhaps and unfortunately factual information from the salesman....or they bought BOSE at the local discount mall. Any room tuning will sound better than what they have. They like boomy bass.....they strive for it. They will never listen to a string quartet or clean acoustic guitar. They do not listen to acoustic music, do not spend $1000 on their speakers, let alone one speaker. Sorry...but that's the real world for audio...and if you had a business, you would probably try to appeal to that big world. So I don't know statistically...I just know based on my limited experience. You stated it as fact. I can say since most (don't know the number) people think that BM is not correct. Why Lonnie can't change it? He will make more money from the people that know this for a fact and the others, they don't know any better.
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Post by ghstudio on Aug 13, 2010 15:34:41 GMT -5
Anything I state is my opinion or my belief based on reading, observation or experience. Although my graduate degree is in Market Research, no, I have not done a statistically valid survey to find out if this is true.
To be accurate, I said "for many other potential buyers, it's not a problem and it will improve their sound....and they are in the majority folks." I did not qualify it as fact, nor did I qualify it as my opinion. If you want that statement to be more accurate....add: look around you folks to the sentence.....look around and you'll see that the UMC-1 would be an improvement to the sound system that the majority of folks you know are using. and yes, there are many other processors and receivers that would also be an improvement......
I can't tell you exactly how many audyssey capable receivers I've seen in homes where the owner never got around to setting "that part" up. In many cases, they haven't even set up the speakers.....whatever the default was...that's what they are using.
I am obviously not referring to you or me or most of the others who are on this forum....but we are the minority (there I go again)....it's just like my statemen that techies assume that everyone is a techie (not true)......audio nuts assume that everyone cares about audio, and that's not true (in my opinion, in my observations and in my experience), and many of those who claim to care, have no idea about room equalization, flat subs, speaker placement etc. How many of your friends have a sound meter or even know what one is?
Sorry if I confused you with an assertion which you assumed was fact....
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Post by Brian on Aug 13, 2010 15:46:10 GMT -5
Anything I state is my opinion or my belief based on reading, observation or experience. Although my graduate degree is in Market Research, no, I have not done a statistically valid survey to find out if this is true. To be accurate, I said "for many other potential buyers, it's not a problem and it will improve their sound....and they are in the majority folks." I did not qualify it as fact, nor did I qualify it as my opinion. If you want that statement to be more accurate....add: look around you folks to the sentence.....look around and you'll see that the UMC-1 would be an improvement to the sound system that the majority of folks you know are using. and yes, there are many other processors and receivers that would also be an improvement...... I can't tell you exactly how many audyssey capable receivers I've seen in homes where the owner never got around to setting "that part" up. In many cases, they haven't even set up the speakers.....whatever the default was...that's what they are using. I am obviously not referring to you or me or most of the others who are on this forum....but we are the minority (there I go again)....it's just like my statemen that techies assume that everyone is a techie (not true)......audio nuts assume that everyone cares about audio, and that's not true (in my opinion, in my observations and in my experience), and many of those who claim to care, have no idea about room equalization, flat subs, speaker placement etc. How many of your friends have a sound meter or even know what one is? Sorry if I confused you with an assertion which you assumed was fact.... Most of Emo customers are audio educated, some more than others. They are not Bose buyers. I am sure Emo is taking a hit for BM. I read so many posts that refuse to buy because of the Ref. factor.
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Post by petes on Aug 13, 2010 15:49:09 GMT -5
hmmm - would that be fact, or opinion.....
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Post by Brian on Aug 13, 2010 15:50:41 GMT -5
hmmm - would that be fact, or opinion.....[/quote Try reading the forum. Lots of educated people on here/ AVS.
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Post by petes on Aug 13, 2010 15:59:27 GMT -5
hmmm - would that be fact, or opinion.....[/quote Try reading the forum. Lots of educated people on here/ AVS. I was just pointing out that you'd just done exactly what you'd called out ghstudio for doing - stating your opinion or observations as if they were definately correct. I don't necessarily disagree with you, but it seemed a little ironic to express it in exactly the same way that ghs had and that you'd objected to. BTW - I do read and post on this and other forums regularly. You say that most Emo customers are audio educated then justify that by telling me to read the forum. Are most Emo customers on this forum - I don't know, but I doubt it. So, I would suggest that stating that is a real stretch. Having said that, I don't disagree that BM is a real issue of course.
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Post by Captain Stubing on Aug 13, 2010 16:53:35 GMT -5
I can't speak for everyone here. I have a (since '98) Radio Shack analog sound level meter. I use the pink noise from my LMC-1 (OSD for distance), digital video essentials pink noise test as well as my BD player pink noise test. If I hear something funny, I pull out the meter. I have a keen sense of hearing being instructed by a blind piano teacher. She taught me to see with my ears and I tried to teach her to see with her eyes.
I do not really see a major need for the auto sound calibration. I didn't say I wouldn't use it or give it a try, I just don't see this as a feature that will make me buy or not buy a pre/pro.
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jamrock
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Post by jamrock on Aug 13, 2010 16:54:50 GMT -5
I would have to agree with BrianHD that most EMO customers are savvy audio enthusiasts. EMO products are not found in Walmart, Costco or Best Buy. People who buy from these entities are not likely to research anything but price. Not anything relating to the production of top notch audio and/or video.
The distinction that needs to be made about forum members is: between those who are tecchies and those who are audiophiles or A/Vphiles.
I am not a tecchie savvy person, and really dont' care too much either. I am a bonafide audiophile - I believe that objective measurements closest to perfection are most likely to guarantee good A/V reproduction. I'm not too much interested in anybody else's ears or eyes. I trust my own. I also don't give a rat's ass about the name on the product, just that the measurements are good.
The reason that I am persisting with Emotiva is because the company represents excellent value (good price and good products) and that makes all the difference in the world.
jamrock
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Post by Captain Stubing on Aug 13, 2010 17:03:27 GMT -5
I actually invite friends over to lend an ear to make sure everything sounds correct. I will even change a setting to see if my friends will catch it. For those that do, I value their judgment on acoustics, bass extension and overall breath of sound.
I can't tell you how many times a setting somehow was changed over the years without my knowledge. Three.
I have no reason not to upgrade any of my (pre/pro/amp) audio gear with Emotiva. I am very happy with the performance and most notably, their fit and finish of their products. They look like they cost $$$$.
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Post by Captain Stubing on Aug 13, 2010 17:05:06 GMT -5
On a side note, is your name really jamrock? You sign jamrock at the end of every post. Just curious.
The only time people use the word captain in my presence is here and whenever captain morgan is around.
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Post by AudioMancer on Aug 13, 2010 17:30:26 GMT -5
Well, I have found the discussion of this dead horse extremely educational. I have learned a lot, but unfortunately I don't have enough knowledge to contribute. Before we go, do any of you have any good reference material on bass management that you could share (other than just Google it). thanks I have to agree with that. I'm not completely incompentent on the subject, but not an expert either. This has been very informative. I just have a question, based on the LFE signal: if it gets routed(from what I understand) exclusively to the subwoofer (if you have one, of course), why would one want to X\O any of the signal?? Wouldn't one be effectively cutting out some of the signal that goes nowhere else? Wouldn't one be missing something?
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Post by Captain Stubing on Aug 13, 2010 17:51:18 GMT -5
Well, I have found the discussion of this dead horse extremely educational. I have learned a lot, but unfortunately I don't have enough knowledge to contribute. Before we go, do any of you have any good reference material on bass management that you could share (other than just Google it). thanks I have to agree with that. I'm not completely incompentent on the subject, but not an expert either. This has been very informative. I just have a question, based on the LFE signal: if it gets routed(from what I understand) exclusively to the subwoofer (if you have one, of course), why would one want to X\O any of the signal?? Wouldn't one be effectively cutting out some of the signal that goes nowhere else? Wouldn't one be missing something? You will not be missing any sound if you have a subwoofer set to 80db and the eq of your pre/pro set to 80db in your speakers. The lows that would be sent to your main speakers are now sent to the subwoofer. Most main speakers have 4"-8" woofers which are not capable or do not sound as good as a dedicated powered sub. Properly balanced for volume, the sound from your sub should be non directional. The bass will sound as if it's coming from your main speakers. Usually, people also set their main speakers to small with the eq on sub amp and pre/pro eq set the same 80hz. You can go lower, typically 80hz is the standard. Some people set both to 70hz and 60hz depending on how well your speakers can handle bass. The lower the setting, the more bass is sent to the main speakers instead of the sub.
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Post by AudioMancer on Aug 13, 2010 18:10:57 GMT -5
You will not be missing any sound if you have a subwoofer set to 80db and the eq of your pre/pro set to 80db in your speakers. The lows that would be sent to your main speakers are now sent to the subwoofer. Most main speakers have 4"-8" woofers which are not capable or do not sound as good as a dedicated powered sub. Properly balanced for volume, the sound from your sub should be non directional. The bass will sound as if it's coming from your main speakers. Usually, people also set their main speakers to small with the eq on sub amp and pre/pro eq set the same 80hz. You can go lower, typically 80hz is the standard. Some people set both to 70hz and 60hz depending on how well your speakers can handle bass. The lower the setting, the more bass is sent to the main speakers instead of the sub. Thanks for the quick reply Capt. I think I either didn't word my question intelligibly, I'm not fully undestanding LFE, or I misunderstood Capts answer. Let me give it another shot: Any other bass signals aside, the LFE signal goes exclusively to the sub (" The crossover for the sub as it is in the UMC is a low pass filter (LPF). It is applied before the bass is summed and affects only the LFE channel" ). If that is the case and the UMC sub crossover only affects the LFE, wouldn't cutting out some of that signal via the X\O leave some kind of "hole" in the signal? To put it another way: under what scenario would you X\O any of the LFE going to the subwoofer, since it's not being reproduced anywhere else?
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jamrock
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Post by jamrock on Aug 13, 2010 18:24:37 GMT -5
"On a side note, is your name really jamrock? You sign jamrock at the end of every post. Just curious"
Jamrock is my forum moniker. However, it represents who I am, 'Sweet but tough'
I reserve the right to screw up my audio and video as much as I want. I don't look to anyone for validation. I listen with my own ears and see with my own eyes. If boomy bass sounds good to me, then my system will be tuned to produce boomy bass. If orange looks red to me, then orange is what it will be. I reserve the right to make myself as happy as I can, no matter how imperfectly that is accomplished.
What I ask for, is that the audio manufacturers such as Emotiva, sells me a properly constructed product. Once I pay for it, I'll do whatever I want with it. Don't tell me that because you believe that I will screw it up or don't know how to get the best out of it, you will limit my options. This is totally not acceptable.
By the way, I have a UPA-7, UPA-2, 2 Ultra 12 subs and interconnects waiting for the UMC-1. I want my blue stars!
jamrock
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Post by ghstudio on Aug 13, 2010 18:42:57 GMT -5
audiomancer....if you set the sub crossover below 120hz then you do risk losing some of the LFE content and it will go nowhere. The only reason you would do this is if your sub could not reproduce up to 120hz with accuracy or there was a resonance that you wanted to eliminate. Reality is that the vast majority of LFE content is below 80hz so as long as you set the sub low pass to 80hz you won't miss much and you will likely never know you missed anything at all.
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Post by Brian on Aug 13, 2010 18:46:53 GMT -5
What I ask for, is that the audio manufacturers such as Emotiva, sells me a properly constructed product. Once I pay for it, I'll do whatever I want with it. Don't tell me that because you believe that I will screw it up or don't know how to get the best out of it, you will limit my options. This is totally not acceptable. That's what we all want. Best post for Emotiva. Lonnie, please read this post.
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Post by AudioMancer on Aug 13, 2010 18:55:25 GMT -5
audiomancer....if you set the sub crossover below 120hz then you do risk losing some of the LFE content and it will go nowhere. The only reason you would do this is if your sub could not reproduce up to 120hz with accuracy or there was a resonance that you wanted to eliminate. Reality is that the vast majority of LFE content is below 80hz so as long as you set the sub low pass to 80hz you won't miss much and you will likely never know you missed anything at all. Ah, excellent. Thank you. I was kinda boxed into the more common problem of some subs not being able to reproduce (adequately) the lowest end spectrum. Didn't hit me that they could have probs with the upper end also. By the way, your DV tutorial was most helpful. I printed and saved it for future reference.
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NorthStar
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Post by NorthStar on Aug 13, 2010 20:20:13 GMT -5
WHAT?.....and waste a perfectly good dead horse? Surely you jest! Well, I have found the discussion of this dead horse extremely educational. I have learned a lot, but unfortunately I don't have enough knowledge to contribute. Before we go, do any of you have any good reference material on bass management that you could share (other than just Google it). thanks There are some excellent articles on this subject at "Audioholics" (www.audioholics.com), and also at "Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity" (www.hometheaterhifi.com).
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NorthStar
Seeker Of Truth
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Post by NorthStar on Aug 13, 2010 20:34:05 GMT -5
audiomancer....if you set the sub crossover below 120hz then you do risk losing some of the LFE content and it will go nowhere. The only reason you would do this is if your sub could not reproduce up to 120hz with accuracy or there was a resonance that you wanted to eliminate. Reality is that the vast majority of LFE content is below 80hz so as long as you set the sub low pass to 80hz you won't miss much and you will likely never know you missed anything at all. True, but the fact remains that the LFE channel contains audio information up to 120 Hz, and to not set your pre/pro at that frequency for the LPF of the LFE is simply dismissing the info that some movie recording engineers had specially put on that channel, and up to that audio frequency! * By the way, on your subwoofer itself, the correct setting for the Low Pass Filter is "Bypass", or if not vailable, its highest position on its rotary knob. ~ It ain't a question of 'missing or not missing what's in there', it's simply the correct setting. ...And you won't miss a thing either!
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