XDA-1 and stereo SACD from Oppo BD-83?

[jmargaglione]

So I was trying to get SACD output from my Oppo to work with the XDA-1. I changed the SACD output from DSD to PCM, but it didn't work. Tried changing format from LPCM to Bitstream, and that didn't help either. Also tried to limit the bitrate to 48k, and that failed as well. I used 2ch SACD's exclusively.

The product description says it will handle 192/24, which is what (I think) I am sending it.

Help?

[geebo]

Isn't there an option in the Oppo to select which tracks to play with hybrid SACD's?

[jmargaglione]

Dec 4, 2010 23:59:41 GMT -5 geebo said:

Isn't there an option in the Oppo to select which tracks to play with hybrid SACD's?

How so? There is a Setup menu that lets you specify if you want an SACD to default to Multichannel, Stereo or CD. Then there are options to select DSD or PCM, another option to select LPCM or Bitstream, and another option to select the maximum bitrate for LPCM.

[geebo]

I just looked at the Oppo 83 online manual and there is an option in the setup menu for SACD priority.

SACD Priority: To select which audio layer to play for SACD (Super Audio CD). The options
are:
• Multi-Channel – Play the multi-channel surround audio layer
• Stereo – Play the 2-channel stereo audio layer
• CD Mode – Play the CD layer of a hybrid SACD disc

[jmargaglione]

Dec 5, 2010 0:05:49 GMT -5 geebo said:

I just looked at the Oppo 83 online manual and there is an option in the setup menu for SACD priority.

SACD Priority: To select which audio layer to play for SACD (Super Audio CD). The options
are:
• Multi-Channel – Play the multi-channel surround audio layer
• Stereo – Play the 2-channel stereo audio layer
• CD Mode – Play the CD layer of a hybrid SACD disc

Right, I set it to Stereo. That should output the 192/24 stereo tracks, which in bitstream should be handle-able by the XDA-1. But I get nothing but silence unless I choose the CD layer. Which of course is not what I want.

[irishsammy]

SACD is a completely different animal than your typical high-rez audio files. You won't be able to play the SACD layer at all digitally through the XDA. Check out the table under Overview in this wiki entry:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacd

Normal redbook CD's are 44/16 as we all know and sampling rates and bit depths go up in rough multiples from there...but SACD has a bit depth of 1 and a sampling frequency of 2.8224 MHz. So if there are 44,100 samples per second at 16 bits deep in a regular CD, SACD gives you 2,822,400 samples per second at 1 bit depth.

So you can see that particular combo isn't included in the list of "normal" sampling rate/bit depth combos. Good ol' Sony...

[geebo]

Dec 5, 2010 0:07:30 GMT -5 jmargaglione said:

Dec 5, 2010 0:05:49 GMT -5 geebo said:

I just looked at the Oppo 83 online manual and there is an option in the setup menu for SACD priority.

SACD Priority: To select which audio layer to play for SACD (Super Audio CD). The options
are:
• Multi-Channel – Play the multi-channel surround audio layer
• Stereo – Play the 2-channel stereo audio layer
• CD Mode – Play the CD layer of a hybrid SACD disc

Right, I set it to Stereo. That should output the 192/24 stereo tracks, which in bitstream should be handle-able by the XDA-1. But I get nothing but silence unless I choose the CD layer. Which of course is not what I want.

I see your dilema. I was under the impression that a hybrid SACD only contained 2 layers. A multi-channel layer and a CD layer for backward compatability.

[jmargaglione]

I am beginning to think the problem might be the limits of toslink/coax...

[jmargaglione]

Or that the digital stream is still encoded with HDCP... damn copy protection. I bought the disk and want to play it, not pirate it.

[irishsammy]

Don't know if you guys saw my post above. The limitation isn't with coax or toslink or with HDCP...SACD is just a completely incompatible sampling frequency/bit depth.

[jmargaglione]

Dec 5, 2010 0:53:17 GMT -5 irishsammy said:

Don't know if you guys saw my post above. The limitation isn't with coax or toslink or with HDCP...SACD is just a completely incompatible sampling frequency/bit depth.

I missed your post, but came to the same conclusion a few minutes later

[burki]

Hi,
the real problem isn't the sampling rate, but the copy protection with DSD.
Some years ago a small company from switzerland offers a additional card for some dvdps, which allows an an output through SPDIF for DVD-As and SACDs.

But in your case, the solution will be easy: Your UMC-1 can handle audio through HDMI and the digital tapeout from the UMC-1 "produces" stereo PCM, which can handled from the XDA-1.
That's the way, how I'm using the XDA-1: Let decode the UMC-1 and use the XDA-1 as the DAC.

Greetings,
Burkhardt

[Erwin.BE]

I am no specialist in this, but over on Computeraudiophile.com, I remember reading that ripping the SACD layer to a computer for later playback is all but impossible unless you want to bend/break some laws. Unlike CD or DVD(-audio). So I am guessing it's the same restrictions that play here.

These restrictions are the certain siucide of the SACD format obviously. Last time I looked, there were only 7,000 titles avalable, against millions on CD. Over half of them are Classical. I doubt there are 100 SACD out there that I would like to own. There's your Pink Floyd and your Dire Straits, aimed at fat middle-aged men like myself... The choice is rather depressing for a curious type like me. SACD is stuck! Why does an old SACD album has to cost more than a one-year-old BluRay blockbuster? Last week, I spent €100 on Blu-rays and it got me 16 (!) disks in the form of the Harry Potter saga (1-6) and the first ten Star Treks. Try that with SACD.

To bad, because now I can play them with my Oppo BDP83SE-NE, I can appreciate the SQ (both 2ch via analogue and multichanel via HDMI for the time being). And that's with an AVR, so I would be curious enough to send it to separates (XMC or AV7005 and the likes).

[LCSeminole]

Dec 5, 2010 0:53:17 GMT -5 irishsammy said:

Don't know if you guys saw my post above. The limitation isn't with coax or toslink or with HDCP...SACD is just a completely incompatible sampling frequency/bit depth.

This is ridiculous on so many levels. Once I confirmed the SACD incompatibility, I tried a couple of DVD-A's and no problem. Hybrid SACD's do however play through the ERC-1 just fine, that must be the red book layer/capability.

[ratmice]

So if you have your player output PCM, how can the analog signal contain copy protection? Shouldn't you be able to tell the Oppo to utilize the 2-channel hi res audio and output PCM? I guess I need to get behind the rack again and hook up the Oppo to the XDA.

[iwf]

It's the copy protection that comes with SACD. You simply can't output anything from a SACD through the digital outputs. SACD has to be decoded within the SACD player and output though the analog outs.

Though I agree about the limitations of SACD no one else has yet provided hi res multi channel. DVDa is limited to 48khz though 24 bit I think.

The only way you'll be able to use a XPA with hi res is to use a PC or MAC as the source.

[jhoak]

I currently have two SACD capable players. A Sony SCD-C222ES and a Sony BDP-S570. Neither of them will output anything by way of the optical or coaxial ports when playing a SACD. The BD player outputs SACD content over HDMI by either DSD or PCM.

I've had several SACD players over the years and none of them would output over the digital connections.

You know we're ALL music "pirates" and need to be protected from our music thieving ways.

[moovtune]

Dec 5, 2010 13:53:37 GMT -5 iwf said:

Though I agree about the limitations of SACD no one else has yet provided hi res multi channel. DVDa is limited to 48khz though 24 bit I think.
quote]

I have a few 96K 24 bit DVD-A's. It's not limited to 48K - but that particular format is essentially dead now anyway. SACD is still around and many new titles are announced - but it's interesting to hear about the playback digitally not being possible even with two channels.

[Trey]

I was just reading this today on the BDP-93 thread at AVSforums....SACD from the optical/ coax doesn't work, only HDMI or analog.

[Erwin.BE]

I was reading this review on the Cambridge Audio 650BD and came to this interesting fact for SACD playback via HDMI:

"SACD’s DSD code is also processed
and/or routed via HDMI in the same
transparent fashion as Dolby/DTS HD
bitstreams. However, within the player,
DSD is downsampled to 88.2kHz LPCM
before conversion to analogue audio, a
‘corruption’ of SACD’s bitstream that’s
avoided in both of the two heavyweight
universal players from Denon and Marantz."

The 650 BD is no clone of the Oppo 83, but it does use the same Mediatek processor.
The full review:
www.cambridgeaudio.com/assets/documents/650BD-review-HFN_June2010-licenced-PDF.pdf