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Post by sharkman on Dec 11, 2010 18:40:09 GMT -5
To me the issue is not whether people are satisfied with being able to use 3 out of 80 volume options, but does the XDA operate as Emotiva said it would, in .5 decibel increments. It does not. Many of us purchased it thinking it would operate as advertised, and we are hoping that Emotiva makes it right.
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Post by Chuck Elliot on Dec 11, 2010 19:57:22 GMT -5
CF - I feel like I should qualify my vote in the poll. Yes, by running the XDA directly from my ERC to my amp, I have issues with the volume control (running at 0.5 to 3.0). But it's usable and I must say the SQ is wonderful. I am nervous about what will happen if somehow the volume is up high when I turn on the stereo. Am so far trying to be careful about turning on the amp last, after turning down volume if needed. :-) You don't sound like you are happy with only being able to use 0-3. The poll isn't on SQ, which I agree is fabulous. If your XDA-1 doesn't return to its previous volume setting on start-up, you have another problem. Mine does on a "standby" off or "back-panel" off. But, it might be better if the XDA-1 started at 0 on power-up. |
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Post by Mischief on Dec 11, 2010 20:17:13 GMT -5
To me the issue is not whether people are satisfied with being able to use 3 out of 80 volume options, but does the XDA operate as Emotiva said it would, in .5 decibel increments. It does not. Many of us purchased it thinking it would operate as advertised, and we are hoping that Emotiva makes it right. You don't sound like you are happy with only being able to use 0-3. The poll isn't on SQ, which I agree is fabulous. If your XDA-1 doesn't return to its previous volume setting on start-up, you have another problem. Mine does on a "standby" off or "back-panel" off. ?? What ?? |
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Post by ajani on Dec 11, 2010 20:58:00 GMT -5
To me the issue is not whether people are satisfied with being able to use 3 out of 80 volume options, but does the XDA operate as Emotiva said it would, in .5 decibel increments. It does not. Many of us purchased it thinking it would operate as advertised, and we are hoping that Emotiva makes it right. Agreed... the sound quality is fine... The issue is that the major feature that drew me to the XDA-1 was the remote controlled volume... Sadly that feature is very poorly implemented... So I really hope Emotiva devises a user serviceable fix for it... |
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Post by Chuck Elliot on Dec 11, 2010 21:50:11 GMT -5
You don't sound like you are happy with only being able to use 0-3. The poll isn't on SQ, which I agree is fabulous. If your XDA-1 doesn't return to its previous volume setting on start-up, you have another problem. Mine does on a "standby" off or "back-panel" off. ?? What ?? Thanks, cut and pasted wrong quoted post - fixed, sorry! |
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Post by Topend on Dec 12, 2010 18:33:51 GMT -5
Although I don't have a major issue with the volume, it is still an issue of minor annoyance to me so I voted Yes.
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Post by sharkman on Dec 13, 2010 14:16:04 GMT -5
One man's minor issue is another man's major issue. The question, though, is does the XDA operate as Emotiva said it would. It does not.
I've been looking, has Emotiva said anything officially on the volume issue? Nothing at all was mentioned in the webcast on Friday about the issue. Dan is apparently back from China. No doubt he had it on his agenda and it's been almost 2 weeks since the XDA was released. Surely they will announce what will or will not be done about the volume before our 30 day trial is up.
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Post by ajani on Dec 13, 2010 14:57:22 GMT -5
One man's minor issue is another man's major issue. The question, though, is does the XDA operate as Emotiva said it would. It does not. I've been looking, has Emotiva said anything officially on the volume issue? Nothing at all was mentioned in the webcast on Friday about the issue. Dan is apparently back from China. No doubt he had it on his agenda and it's been almost 2 weeks since the XDA was released. Surely they will announce what will or will not be done about the volume before our 30 day trial is up. They really should respond before the end of the 30 day trial, so persons can know whether they may need to return the XDA-1 and buy something else... |
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Post by Chuck Elliot on Dec 14, 2010 21:40:33 GMT -5
It seems I have another issue. I tried the USB today - appears DOA. Windows (on 3 different machines) picks up the device and installs the default driver, but will not play.
Still waiting on the volume control issue - coming up on 3 weeks now with no word from Emotiva. I sure don't want to have to send it back twice!
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Post by Chuck Elliot on Dec 14, 2010 22:19:23 GMT -5
It seems I have another issue. I tried the USB today - appears DOA. Windows (on 3 different machines) picks up the device and installs the default driver, but will not play. Which player and OS platform are you using? If the player doesn't have the ability to choose a sound device, then it will have to be selected as the default sound device for the system. Steve 2x Windows 7; 1 Windows XP Set to default and 44.1/16 on all. Nothing! Also on your systems does it report as "Emotiva".... or "USB PnP sound device"? I always get the USB PnP. The second Windows 7 machine was a fresh install! Also 3 different USB cables! |
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Post by bigmm79 on Dec 15, 2010 18:21:21 GMT -5
I voted no prob bc I'm using USP-1, but I want to qualify my vote. I have tried running the XDA direct into my amp and the volume control is basically useless. .5-4 out of 80 usable range, with each increment drastically increasing volume. I have high eff. 101db speakers, but my amp is specifically designed to be a *low gain* amp due to efficiency of speakers so I was surprised. This volume control issue is just plain stupid, especially where the merits of running the XDA directly into amp were so highly touted before the XDA hit the streets. I've seen various excuses from apologists here on the boards but I don't buy any of them - this should have been and should be fixed by Emo.
On a positive note - the sound is good, the price is good and I love the remote. I hope I can get a similar remote for my USP in the future.
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Post by matt on Dec 16, 2010 22:41:33 GMT -5
CF - I feel like I should qualify my vote in the poll. Yes, by running the XDA directly from my ERC to my amp, I have issues with the volume control (running at 0.5 to 3.0). But it's usable and I must say the SQ is wonderful. I am nervous about what will happen if somehow the volume is up high when I turn on the stereo. Am so far trying to be careful about turning on the amp last, after turning down volume if needed. :-) You don't sound like you are happy with only being able to use 0-3. The poll isn't on SQ, which I agree is fabulous. If your XDA-1 doesn't return to its previous volume setting on start-up, you have another problem. Mine does on a "standby" off or "back-panel" off. But, it might be better if the XDA-1 started at 0 on power-up. I have been leaving my input on optical 1. Every day I turn off the power at the power strip (extension lead) without using the XDA-1 standby feature and when I turn it back on after restoring the power, it has always come back on at the volume that I left it at. I have a "TC Electronic Level Pilot" to slightly attenuate the signal via XLR, which increases the number of usable volume steps on the XDA-1. The level pilot is a quality product and I have no issues with integrating it into my setup. The audio sounds the same with and without the level pilot in the signal path. Yes, it is an extra component that I would not have bought if the XDA-1 had a logarithmic volume scale, but having a tactile volume control is not a bad thing for me. TC Electronic Level Pilot: www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001PGMNRG/ |
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Post by carlp336 on Dec 16, 2010 23:29:02 GMT -5
just ran across this after getting the xda online today.
no problem for me but i dont use it without a preamp, well mine doesnt have any issues that way. i can go from .0 to 80 and it not get too loud. using the volume from the USP, compared to the erc they are similar in level..
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Post by bobbyt on Dec 17, 2010 0:01:46 GMT -5
You guys who keep saying it's "not a problem" while using it as a standalone DAC, that's kind of like saying a DVD/CD player with a malfunctioning CD laser isn't a problem because you only watch DVDs.
It's a combination DAC/preamp. If you're bypassing the preamp, it isn't "not a problem", you just aren't using that feature. You might as well say broken XLRs aren't a problem because you're using the RCAs...
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Post by matt on Dec 17, 2010 4:15:01 GMT -5
You guys who keep saying it's "not a problem" while using it as a standalone DAC, that's kind of like saying a DVD/CD player with a malfunctioning CD laser isn't a problem because you only watch DVDs. It's a combination DAC/preamp. If you're bypassing the preamp, it isn't "not a problem", you just aren't using that feature. You might as well say broken XLRs aren't a problem because you're using the RCAs... This reminds me of using induction cooktops. Most have a limited number of heat settings and the heat setting that is desired is sometimes between the settings that the cooktop has. The difference here is that I cannot take an induction cooktop with this issue and add an attenuator in it myself and enjoy the full use of the appliance. By the way, the only induction cooktop that I have found (and I have looked at plenty) that does not have the limited heat levels issue is made by Viking. Perhaps there needs to be more Internet sales based induction cooktop manufacturers with forums. :-) |
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Post by jimangie1973 on Dec 17, 2010 5:38:43 GMT -5
From the locked thread someone asked:
Explain why linear is not good in an audio product?
Answer:
The reason you want a logarithmic (actually exponential is easier to visualize) is because you want the adjustments to be relative to what your current level is. For example, regardless of the output level, you want the adjustment to be an increase of say 20% of what you're currently outputting.
So initially you're muted. Let's say the lowest volume setting corresponds to 1 mV output. The next setting would be 1.2 mV output. Then increase the 1.2mV by 20% which is 1.44mV, then 1.73mV, 2.07mV.....
You can see, it takes several steps just to increase the first millivolt. Contrast this to the top of the range where you're at 1V. It's the exact same thing, 1.2V, then 1.44V, then 1.73V, and finally 2.07V. The last few steps increase the voltage 1000 times more coarsely than the first few!!
BTW, in this example, 20% corresponds to jumps of 1.58 dB. The XDA-1 should be 3 times finer than this at the advertised 0.5 dB steps.
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Post by rogerwilco on Dec 17, 2010 7:05:52 GMT -5
It's a combination DAC/preamp. If you're bypassing the preamp, it isn't "not a problem", you just aren't using that feature. I am using it as a preamp and it is "not a problem". |
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Post by Chuck Elliot on Dec 17, 2010 7:37:26 GMT -5
You guys who keep saying it's "not a problem" while using it as a standalone DAC, that's kind of like saying a DVD/CD player with a malfunctioning CD laser isn't a problem because you only watch DVDs. It's a combination DAC/preamp. If you're bypassing the preamp, it isn't "not a problem", you just aren't using that feature. You might as well say broken XLRs aren't a problem because you're using the RCAs... The title is "Is it an issue for YOU?" meaning your use of the XDA-1. But, that doesn't invalidate what you are saying. |
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Post by Chuck Elliot on Dec 17, 2010 7:40:29 GMT -5
I will re-post: Volume setting on top / dB on left.  |
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Post by rockguitar on Dec 17, 2010 8:49:01 GMT -5
I will also repost something from last night, since it's useful to have the actual XDA numbers in the graph. I've been trying to keep my posts informative and factual as one of the other threads dealing with the volume control is getting emotionally charged ;D. There are facts and there are opinions. I'm sticking to the facts. The problem with the volume control is well known. It didn't meet the original published specs. The original published spec was to control the volume setting from 0 to 80 in 0.5 db increments. That would yield a usable volume range of 80 db. What I've calculated the usable volume range of the actual volume control is from 0.5 to 80 with a usable volume range of only 44 db. That is why at the low end of the scale, many people do not get usable volume. The lowest possible usable volume setting was only 44 db down from the max, instead of the specified 80 db down from the max. Sometimes a picture is worth a thousands words.  The blue curve is the actual performance of the unit as a linear volume control. The red curve is my graph of the original volume curve that the original published specs led us to believe would occur. If the actual performance met the original specs, there would be no issues right now of finding a usable volume, because there are two problems with using the linear control (blue curve)-- not enough dynamic range for the volume and too drastic volume differences at low volumes. With the original specs, we would get 1) 80 db of volume control vs 44 db of volume control and 2) have small 0.5 db volume intervals to finely control the volume. It's from what I've posted here. emotivalounge.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=preampdac&action=post&thread=15010"e=238103&page=3 |
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