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Post by tjhenry on Jan 1, 2011 3:05:27 GMT -5
I've compared the coax and optical inputs on the XDA-1 and noticed a small difference in sound quality. I wonder if anyone else has a similar experience.
The optical input has slightly less bass weight and impact than the coax input. Male vocals sound slightly less full and upright bass notes have less overhang. The difference is of a similar magnitude as when changing interconnects.
Has anyone else had a similar experience?
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Post by sharkman on Jan 1, 2011 3:32:29 GMT -5
Out of curiosity I had compared the two and found no difference, are you running the XDA straight into an amp? I also tried the difference between RCAs and XLRs from the XDA to the amp with no discernible difference.
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Post by srb on Jan 1, 2011 3:37:51 GMT -5
I have come to the same conclusion, not just with the XDA-1, but with most DACs as well as receivers and processors with DACs, when comparing the S/PDIF coax versus optical.
Electrical S/PDIF transmission via coax is simpler. The optical S/PDIF via optic fiber first has to have the electrical signal be converted through a laser diode transmitter to light pulses on the transmitting end and then back to an electrical signal with another laser diode component on the receiving end. It adds a small additional layer of dual conversion, perhaps adding a little extra jitter or noise.
Also, the original Toslink spec was for 24-bit/96KHz maximum transfer, and some DACs will recommend their coax inputs for more stable signal transfer up to 24-bit/192KHz.
Steve
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Post by magico309d on Jan 1, 2011 18:24:35 GMT -5
The difference between the two could also be caused by your sound card.
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Post by srb on Jan 1, 2011 19:17:55 GMT -5
The difference between the two could also be caused by your sound card. Could be. But that is the conclusion I have come to with several motherboards with integrated coaxial and optical S/PDIF outputs and several disc players with both coaxial and optical S/PDIF outputs. These sources were used with a number of different DACs having both types of inputs. Nothing real scientific, and the difference was not night and day, but overall a subtle difference that was enough for me to comment on. The difference was that in most of the cases, the coaxial had a more solid, clearer and focused sound, both in bass and treble. The tone, timbre and frequency response was unchanged. YMMV. Steve |
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Post by rclark on Jan 2, 2011 0:11:38 GMT -5
I have found there is quite a difference between the two. I am using a MacUltra Silver+ cable on the coax and versus the optical connection the coax connection has a lot more life to it, more upper end clarity and just a more pleasing sound.
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edrummereasye
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Post by edrummereasye on Jan 3, 2011 1:57:34 GMT -5
I have found there is quite a difference between the two. I am using a MacUltra Silver+ cable on the coax and versus the optical connection the coax connection has a lot more life to it, more upper end clarity and just a more pleasing sound. So, what did you (and everyone else) use on the optical? I've never done any serious comparison, but I do have a real "glass" optical cable or two; cheaper ones often use a clear "plastic" or "nylon-like" core to carry the signal. There's also the issue of condition and bends; with the better cables especially, optical is susceptible to damage from excess bending, tight-radius bends, etc.; to the point the conductor can actually crack/fracture/etc., which I'm sure would play hell with light transmission. Similarly, I would think that excessive length would be more of a factor with optical (especially lower-quality cables) than with coax. In short, if "cable magic" exists anywhere, I'd expect it to be most pronounced with optical; there's a big difference between a cheap plastic core and a real "glass" one, and I could see guage playing a bigger part too. Of course, transceiver quality might factor in as well, but I don't know enough about that in terms of actual parts on the market right now. |
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Post by Chuck Elliot on Jan 3, 2011 13:38:50 GMT -5
I have found there is quite a difference between the two. I am using a MacUltra Silver+ cable on the coax and versus the optical connection the coax connection has a lot more life to it, more upper end clarity and just a more pleasing sound. So, what did you (and everyone else) use on the optical? I've never done any serious comparison, but I do have a real "glass" optical cable or two; cheaper ones often use a clear "plastic" or "nylon-like" core to carry the signal. There's also the issue of condition and bends; with the better cables especially, optical is susceptible to damage from excess bending, tight-radius bends, etc.; to the point the conductor can actually crack/fracture/etc., which I'm sure would play hell with light transmission. Similarly, I would think that excessive length would be more of a factor with optical (especially lower-quality cables) than with coax. In short, if "cable magic" exists anywhere, I'd expect it to be most pronounced with optical; there's a big difference between a cheap plastic core and a real "glass" one, and I could see guage playing a bigger part too. Of course, transceiver quality might factor in as well, but I don't know enough about that in terms of actual parts on the market right now. I find it hard to believe there is much, if any, difference between coax and optical unless there is a difference in the transmitting or receiving circuitry. This also extends to esoteric high prices cables of either type. Music data even at 192/24 doesn’t even touch the bandwidth that either of these types is capable of. Look at the lowly SATA cables that we all use to connect our hard drives to our motherboards. They don’t need to be “silver” to transmit a serial stream in excess of 300mb/sec. Optical cables are routinely used to interconnect distant buildings at gigabit Ethernet speeds. As long as you don’t bend it into a knot I don’t think you’ll have much trouble with 20 feet! |
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Post by tjhenry on Jan 4, 2011 12:02:17 GMT -5
I went into the comparison with the bias that I wasn't going to hear any difference between coax and optical. I've done comparisons like this for a couple other DVD players and DACs and had not heard a difference until comparing coax and optical with the XDA-1.
My optical cable is a plastic core made by Sony. It's not great, but I've been careful to take good care of it. There are no bends or kinks in the cable and the connectors are still in great condition.
Again, it's a subtle difference but one that can be heard. It's much easier for me to hear it when listening through headphones and switching inputs on the XDA-1. I'm going to take the XDA-1 over to a friend's house and I'll do the same comparison to see if he notices a difference.
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Post by rclark on Jan 8, 2011 3:17:42 GMT -5
I don't know anything about the "on paper" capabilities of one versus the other. All I know is that my ears hear a difference and a large one.
I've notived that most people who tend to be skeptical about cables tend to have old ears.
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hemster
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Post by hemster on Jan 8, 2011 3:45:50 GMT -5
I've tried both optical and coax cables of same lengths and found no discernible difference.
But then, I suppose my ears are old... after all, I've had them all my life! ;D
In the end, if you hear a difference between the two, go with what sounds best... to you!
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Post by wizardofoz on Jan 8, 2011 10:44:14 GMT -5
between coax and optical from ERC-1 to XDA-1 the coax wins...but if you didnt compare the 2 the optical is still good... only when you ab them its a clear winner for the coax
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NorthStar
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Post by NorthStar on Jan 8, 2011 12:10:06 GMT -5
Coaxial digital anytime!  Optical digital sounds lifeless, tubby, thin, no real bass, typical closed in, thick, dull, ... |
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iceman66
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Post by iceman66 on Jan 8, 2011 12:17:47 GMT -5
between coax and optical from ERC-1 to XDA-1 the coax wins...but if you didnt compare the 2 the optical is still good... only when you ab them its a clear winner for the coax I had the XDA for about a week, ABd it with my Matrix Mini-i while also swapping coax/optical connections between the 2 and I could not detect a difference - between the DACs or the cables, maybe I am to old or my ears are Metal fatigued, I am glad I don't hear differences in interconnects, saves me a lot of money  |
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Post by Chuck Elliot on Jan 8, 2011 12:43:19 GMT -5
Coaxial digital anytime! Optical digital sounds lifeless, tubby, thin, no real bass, typical closed in, thick, dull, ... How do you distort a "1" or "0" to cause this type of issue. This is a digital stream of data, it either gets there or is doesn't. The one form of "digital distortion" called jitter has more or less been removed in most DACs by re-clocking the data before analog conversion. |
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Post by jannick on Jan 8, 2011 17:19:22 GMT -5
Coaxial digital anytime! Optical digital sounds lifeless, tubby, thin, no real bass, typical closed in, thick, dull, ... How do you distort a "1" or "0" to cause this type of issue. This is a digital stream of data, it either gets there or is doesn't. The one form of "digital distortion" called jitter has more or less been removed in most DACs by re-clocking the data before analog conversion. Do we know if the XDA-1 does re-clocking? |
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NorthStar
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Post by NorthStar on Jan 8, 2011 19:55:46 GMT -5
Coaxial digital anytime! Optical digital sounds lifeless, tubby, thin, no real bass, typical closed in, thick, dull, ... How do you distort a "1" or "0" to cause this type of issue. This is a digital stream of data, it either gets there or is doesn't. The one form of "digital distortion" called jitter has more or less been removed in most DACs by re-clocking the data before analog conversion. Hello dear sir, I listened extensively in the past from these two type of digital connections, and from several players using my ears as the judge; and I just said in my above post what I've heard in general. * Now I'm not talking about the XDA-1 as I don't own it, but I am still convinced that the Coaxial digital connection will surpass the Optical digital one in real audio benefit in the vast majority of cases. Call it what you want, but for me and many others that is our findings. Pure and simple listening sessions comparing both type of digital connections. I don't know, perhaps the physics of the coaxial interface is more solid that the optical one? I simply rely on what my ears tell me. Best regards, Bob |
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Erwin.BE
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Post by Erwin.BE on Jan 8, 2011 20:42:46 GMT -5
Coaxial digital anytime! Optical digital sounds lifeless, tubby, thin, no real bass, typical closed in, thick, dull, ... How do you distort a "1" or "0" to cause this type of issue. This is a digital stream of data, it either gets there or is doesn't. The one form of "digital distortion" called jitter has more or less been removed in most DACs by re-clocking the data before analog conversion. "More or less"... I can tell you that with the Apple Airport Express I use to stream from my iMac to my AVR (connected optical to DacMagic first), a track does not sound as good as using the original CD with a CD player (which is either a modded Marantz or the Oppo 83SE NE in my case). AE is reputed to be prone to Jitter. This is all not night and day but I hear it anyway. Ofcourse, that the AE is lousy on Jitter does not mean other devices are. Anyway, it's always advised to keep interconnects as short as possible. I believe the optical I use is 2 meters, way to long. The emerging of the asyncron USB devices proves that it's still an issue, Jitter. |
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Post by phew on Jan 9, 2011 17:53:11 GMT -5
I won't claim to be able to hear differences between digital interconnects, but in my case:
Oppo BDP-80->XDA-1->RPA-2
TOSLINK would only carry up to 24/96 from the Oppo to the XDA, whereas coaxial would carry the full 24/192 stream from the rare DVD-A disc encoded at this bitrate.
I don't know if this is a limitation of the Oppo, the XDA, or my cheap plastic fiber Monoprice TOSLINK cable, but it the matter is now settled for me.
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Post by Chuck Elliot on Jan 9, 2011 19:35:50 GMT -5
I won't claim to be able to hear differences between digital interconnects, but in my case: Oppo BDP-80->XDA-1->RPA-2 TOSLINK would only carry up to 24/96 from the Oppo to the XDA, whereas coaxial would carry the full 24/192 stream from the rare DVD-A disc encoded at this bitrate. I don't know if this is a limitation of the Oppo, the XDA, or my cheap plastic fiber Monoprice TOSLINK cable, but it the matter is now settled for me. It might just be a dirty or bad cable. I can run 192/24 from my PC to the XDA-1 over a 15ft optical with no problem. With the comments on coax vs optical, I moved my PC closer to my XDA-1 and switched between coax and optical. It must be my "old ears" because I can tell absolutely no difference. |
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