hemster
Global Moderator 
Particle Manufacturer
...still listening... still watching
Posts: 51,951
|
Post by hemster on Aug 5, 2011 20:39:08 GMT -5
To me, any surge protector/power conditioner that can handle the widest voltage swing, would be the best for all applications. As long as the APC H15 is sending a steady 120V to the components, what is the worry. Power fluctuations vary according to locations and how close your are to certain power hungry entities such as hospitals, commercial & manufacturing businesses, etc. I live in a residential development with no heavy users of electrical power within 3 miles of my home. My APC shows a steady incoming voltage of 121v. With my narrow setting, I am assured that the APC will stabilize incoming swings of +/-5% (114v - 126v) to 120v to my components. Anything over or below that range, it immediately goes into lock down. I play my system and sleep very easy my friends! It doesn't do that. The H15 manual states in narrow band your H15 will stabilize power swings in the range of 102-132 volts to within 114 volts and 126 volts. Yes but in real life usage in Florida, with all the brownouts and wild A/C swings, I've never seen it go down to 114V or up t 126V. The specs are one thing but in practice, this unit gives out an almost constant 120V. Of course, YMMV... |
|
|
|
Post by RichGuy on Aug 5, 2011 21:15:30 GMT -5
It doesn't do that. The H15 manual states in narrow band your H15 will stabilize power swings in the range of 102-132 volts to within 114 volts and 126 volts. Yes but in real life usage in Florida, with all the brownouts and wild A/C swings, I've never seen it go down to 114V or up t 126V. The specs are one thing but in practice, this unit gives out an almost constant 120V. Of course, YMMV... And in real life usage so have the other power conditioners I have used. I have a nearly rock steady constant 123 -124 volts. Over a 3+ year period of time I have only seen about a +/- 2% total variance of this. My point is that the voltage regulation that the H15 offers does not appear to have any extra benefit over what most other power conditioners offer. Many people on here believe the APC's voltage regulation will keep their voltage at 120 volts, it in fact does not. APC only promises in narrow band that its voltage regulation will maintain voltage output to be within 114v and 126v a total +/- 5% variance. |
|
|
|
Post by flamingeye on Aug 6, 2011 9:35:01 GMT -5
That still doesn`t mean much your components can handle and are designed for greater swings then this with out hurting or negatively effecting it`s performance Exactly! And the H15's voltage regulation has horrible specifications. It does not promise an exact 120 volts as many believe, what it promises is 114 volts to 126 volts in narrow band. Which is perfectly fine and more then good enough for the components why spend more for something that`s not even needed I don`t understand why you would think that`s horrible? it`s above and beyond what the components need and in fact if you use the APC`s lowest/widest setting that is perfectly adequate as well and your components will perform as intended with no ill effects or diminish it`s performance and or shorten it`s life span these power regulations are only needed for the most extreme of fluctuations and most if not all people do not even need them |
|
|
|
Post by RichGuy on Aug 6, 2011 10:25:12 GMT -5
Exactly! And the H15's voltage regulation has horrible specifications. It does not promise an exact 120 volts as many believe, what it promises is 114 volts to 126 volts in narrow band. Which is perfectly fine and more then good enough for the components why spend more for something that`s not even needed I don`t understand why you would think that`s horrible? it`s above and beyond what the components need My point is that I have heard a few people think the H15 has some kind of unique, great voltage regulation system that keeps the power output at exactly 120v and it does not. In fact the H15's voltage output is no more stable than any other power conditioner I have used or seen. My original point in this thread about the subject was as you stated above that keeping the voltage at an exact steady 120v was unnecessary. The member selkec was torn between the PF-60 and the H15 and thought the H15 had a promised steady 120v output and again my point is it does not. It promises a 120v +/-5% output, which is actually less steady than most real life use and appears to be no added advantage above other power conditioners I have compared it with. In my personal opinion the H15 is an OK power conditioner but I think there are far better ones available. Personally I think the PF-60 is far better than the H15 and I would pay several times as much money on the PF-60 and still feel it was a good bargain as I have seen nothing else I prefer to the PF-60 at the $800 and even considerably above price range. While I have seen power conditioners I prefer to the H15 as low as $150, actually even less. |
|
bootman
Emo VIPs 
Typing useless posts on internet forums....
Posts: 9,358
|
Post by bootman on Aug 6, 2011 15:46:08 GMT -5
|
|
jamrock
Emo VIPs
Courtesy Costs Nothing. Give Generously!
Posts: 4,750
|
Post by jamrock on Aug 6, 2011 17:16:03 GMT -5
Any A/V component that is adversely affected by voltage swings between 114v - 126v 100v - 130v is seriously flawed.  |
|
|
|
Post by roadrunner on Aug 6, 2011 18:50:16 GMT -5
Bootman, Looks like a decent price for adding protection. The one thing that struck me as odd was the clamping voltage seemed too high. I may be misremembering this, but I thought that the goal to shoot for with these devices is to have a clamping voltage of around 300 volts. I don't pay all that much attention to the Joules rating because there are so many ways to fudge that; and practically nobody reports how they tested to obtain the reported Joules. To me, the response time and clamping voltage is what are more important. IIRC, the one I installed when I built my home in WY a number of years ago had a response time of less than 1 nanosecond and a clamping voltage of 312 volts. It has been too long for me to remember the cost but I remember thinking it was a good price, being about the same as buying 2 or 3 Tripp-lite surge protectors at that time. |
|
selkec
Emo VIPs
SCREW YOU GUYS, IM GOING HOME!!!
Posts: 3,779
|
Post by selkec on Aug 6, 2011 19:49:32 GMT -5
I realized I had my H10 set to narrow. Thats why it was always boosting the voltage. I set it to normal and it has not once went off. I guess that means my voltage is not fluctuating too much. I guess that means my voltage stays between 108 to 132. I first thought the apc kept it at 120. With knowing this now. My voltage seems good enough for me. I now think I prefer the Belkin for looks and for the isolated outlets. Thanks all for all the comments. Its nice to learn something about my equpiment that I didnt know.
|
|
|
|
Post by flamingeye on Aug 7, 2011 8:41:14 GMT -5
Which is perfectly fine and more then good enough for the components why spend more for something that`s not even needed I don`t understand why you would think that`s horrible? it`s above and beyond what the components need My point is that I have heard a few people think the H15 has some kind of unique, great voltage regulation system that keeps the power output at exactly 120v and it does not. In fact the H15's voltage output is no more stable than any other power conditioner I have used or seen. My original point in this thread about the subject was as you stated above that keeping the voltage at an exact steady 120v was unnecessary. The member selkec was torn between the PF-60 and the H15 and thought the H15 had a promised steady 120v output and again my point is it does not. It promises a 120v +/-5% output, which is actually less steady than most real life use and appears to be no added advantage above other power conditioners I have compared it with. In my personal opinion the H15 is an OK power conditioner but I think there are far better ones available. Personally I think the PF-60 is far better than the H15 and I would pay several times as much money on the PF-60 and still feel it was a good bargain as I have seen nothing else I prefer to the PF-60 at the $800 and even considerably above price range. While I have seen power conditioners I prefer to the H15 as low as $150, actually even less. OK then I agree and just to make my point clear one shouldn`t buy a surge/conditioners on it`s regulation ability alone and spending more then $100- 200 IMHO on surge/conditioners is not needed in most applications/systems |
|
RadTech
Emo VIPs
X Rayed It!
Posts: 4,462
|
Post by RadTech on Aug 7, 2011 14:30:40 GMT -5
I have mine set to normal and I'm at 111 Vin and 119 Vout with the line boost engaged. I could set the AVR to wide and it will not boost the voltage. I turn off the lights so I don't see the orange boost light. My question is should I set it to wide or keep it at normal and let the APC boost the Vout with a Vin of 111?
|
|
|
|
Post by flamingeye on Aug 7, 2011 16:07:33 GMT -5
IMHO Ether way is fine that`s not enough for it to do anything to your components But if it makes you feel better let the APC boost I have my APC on normal but not for any particular reason I just have it there because I have it and that`s where it was set when I got it ;D
|
|
|
|
Post by bobbyt on Aug 7, 2011 21:29:46 GMT -5
flamingeye, that backdash you keep using in place of an apostrophe is a real eyesore...you want the one next to the Enter key.
|
|
|
|
Post by flamingeye on Aug 8, 2011 9:25:14 GMT -5
oK thank's I appreciate any help one can give me on my spelling and grammar , but no guarantee that I will be able to retain that helpful hint do to my disability but I'll try  |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2011 9:30:48 GMT -5
I have voltage drops so severe that room fans slow down. This has had zero impact on the sound of my components, to my ears. This has happened because of both air conditioners (which are so ineffective that it is often 80+ f' degrees) and space heaters. If I could see some data on objective tests of the impact of voltage drops on sound and reliability than I would purchase one that regulated voltage.
|
|
bootman
Emo VIPs
Typing useless posts on internet forums....
Posts: 9,358
|
Post by bootman on Aug 8, 2011 10:25:23 GMT -5
Bootman, Looks like a decent price for adding protection. The one thing that struck me as odd was the clamping voltage seemed too high. I may be misremembering this, but I thought that the goal to shoot for with these devices is to have a clamping voltage of around 300 volts. I don't pay all that much attention to the Joules rating because there are so many ways to fudge that; and practically nobody reports how they tested to obtain the reported Joules. To me, the response time and clamping voltage is what are more important. IIRC, the one I installed when I built my home in WY a number of years ago had a response time of less than 1 nanosecond and a clamping voltage of 312 volts. It has been too long for me to remember the cost but I remember thinking it was a good price, being about the same as buying 2 or 3 Tripp-lite surge protectors at that time. For a whole house solution I think how many amps it can clamp down at the panel is more important. For voltage protection I do have my gear hooked up to a Furman unit. |
|
|
|
Post by RichGuy on Aug 12, 2011 1:38:12 GMT -5
Here's a pic of my PF-60 and XPA-2 & XPA-5, they look great together as well as work great together.  |
|
hemster
Global Moderator
Particle Manufacturer
...still listening... still watching
Posts: 51,951
|
Post by hemster on Aug 12, 2011 2:17:58 GMT -5
^ That looks sharp and complements your Emo gear quite handsomely. Enjoy!
|
|
selkec
Emo VIPs
SCREW YOU GUYS, IM GOING HOME!!!
Posts: 3,779
|
Post by selkec on Aug 12, 2011 6:39:12 GMT -5
the pf 60 does look really good with the emo gear. Nice  |
|
|
|
Post by RichGuy on Aug 12, 2011 11:39:04 GMT -5
Thanks guys, also the lights all look much better and match really well, however in the picture the flash sort of washed them out a bit.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2011 13:18:58 GMT -5
I have my fp60 in view, so I turn off the lcd or keep it at it's minimum brightness.
|
|
