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Post by Darksky on Jul 22, 2011 9:26:25 GMT -5
Surge Protector/Power Supply
I need a new surge protector. The older “Monster” surge protector that I have had sitting on the floor behind my tv has given up the ghost. Apparently it did not like the increased load from supplying my new amps (XPA-2 and XPA-3). I don’t recall the model number, but it was basically a glorified power strip with 8 plugs and connection jacks for both the cable and phone line that feed my dish network receiver as well.
With what would recommend that I replace this sad little travesty of an AV component? (gently now)
I think that protecting the phone line and maybe even the cable is valid in case of a lightning strike. We have power outtages and the associated spikes as it is being restored on a semi regular basis in my "neck of the woods", so I have been convinced that surge protectors are a necessary piece of equipment. If nothing else the multi-plug function is useful for me.
When I built the house I put in four outlets behind the the AV areas and used 14-16? ga (heavier wire). I also includes two cat 5 lines and four (two loops) cable lines. But now I have such a large amount of equipmnet that plug space is somewhat limited, so if for nothing else a surge protector earns it's keep as a multi-plug.
Any how, whatta you got? Whattaya think I need?
And as always, Thank You for your participation. Bradley
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Post by briank on Jul 22, 2011 9:30:12 GMT -5
I'm shopping for one of these too. I like Furman but not the price. $599 for the "power factor" Elite model(elite 15pf). Leaning towards the APC h15 at Vann's for $237. Anyone have any recommendations for me and Darksky?
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Post by Darksky on Jul 22, 2011 9:31:49 GMT -5
A reply within thirty seconds of posting... That's what I'm talkin' about. I REALLY like this forum.
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Post by carlp336 on Jul 22, 2011 9:36:55 GMT -5
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Post by geebo on Jul 22, 2011 9:37:07 GMT -5
Surge Protector/Power SupplyI need a new surge protector. The older “Monster” surge protector that I have had sitting on the floor behind my tv has given up the ghost. Apparently it did not like the increased load from supplying my new amps (XPA-2 and XPA-3). I don’t recall the model number, but it was basically a glorified power strip with 8 plugs and connection jacks for both the cable and phone line that feed my dish network receiver as well. With what would recommend that I replace this sad little travesty of an AV component? (gently now) I think that protecting the phone line and maybe even the cable is valid in case of a lightning strike. We have power outtages and the associated spikes as it is being restored on a semi regular basis in my "neck of the woods", so I have been convinced that surge protectors are a necessary piece of equipment. If nothing else the multi-plug function is useful for me. When I built the house I put in four outlets behind the the AV areas and used 14-16? ga (heavier wire). I also includes two cat 5 lines and four (two loops) cable lines. But now I have such a large amount of equipmnet that plug space is somewhat limited, so if for nothing else a surge protector earns it's keep as a multi-plug. Any how, whatta you got? Whattaya think I need? And as always, Thank You for your participation. Bradley We may be better able to make a recomendation if we knew how much you were willing to spend. I can only say at this point don't skimp on you surge protector. And also note that Emotiva recomends plugging those amps directly into the wall socket. If you opt for using a protector for the amps, get something with high current capabilities. |
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Post by Darksky on Jul 22, 2011 9:53:27 GMT -5
I did not realize that the amps should plug directly to the wall outlet. I guess that I need to become a better reader. As far as what I want to spend, that is kind of a loaded question. As little as humanly possible is one viable answer, but more appropriately the amount where I am paying for function and not pride of ownership. I really don't have anyone with whom to play my power supply is bigger than your power supply. So, I don't know where to start. The APC H15 listed above looks like it does everything and more than I even considered. Does trimming the power coming out of the socket to a max of 120 volts (down from 128 in the google product reviews) even matter? Are the electrical compnents really that fragile or sensitive?
I mean I have had a blender or an electric razor die over the years, but have never burned up anything expensive. I have basic surge protection on my computers, but not anything drastic- nothing more than surge protection.
So now do I need to "condition" the power I am buying from the electric company before it enters and damages or (worse) causes the dreaded poor performance?
I mean $200 bucks for the APC H15 is not out of sight to protect thousands of dollars worth of AV addicition, but did the equipment manufacturers not plan for the end user to plug their product into the wall? Are they not designed to run at whatever the power company calls 120v more or less?
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Post by Darksky on Jul 22, 2011 10:18:04 GMT -5
Okay the Belkin PF60 looks like it does everything. What about the PF30? it's only 65-90 bucks. I know it does not have the digital readout, but is that something I want anyway?
I mean do I need something else to think (read worry) about? Oh My the voltage to the house is spiking it's up to 125- she's gonna' blow! I'm being facetious here, but the more I think about it... I have an air conditioner attached to my house that is an all electric geothermal refrigerator/furnace combo. It has more boards in it than any other electrical device I've seen. It controls pumps and valves- does all kinds of whizz bang and is crazy expensive (too me). It plugs directly into a breaker, receiving the deadly unfiltered electricity. Is it fixin' to splode as well?
I am not trying to be too difficult here, but didn't the guys who thought this stuff up, or the ones who brought the power lines to my home, or the people that made the breakers, or the guy that installed them think about this?
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Post by carlp336 on Jul 22, 2011 10:34:41 GMT -5
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Post by Darksky on Jul 22, 2011 10:46:01 GMT -5
I don't know. They seem to be basically the same machine just the 60 has a lot more features. I am thinking the sixty just because of the two high power outlets to run both of my amps and then having the eleven (count'em) additional outlets to power any and every little thing I can think of that needs momentary or very little power now and again. I am thinking about things like the Sirius receiver that runs on a wall wart and maybe a DC fan set up. On top of the Dish receiver, Cd Player, PS3. If I only had one amp I think I would just have the PF30. $65 bucks is pretty affordable. I almost think it would do anyway. It has eight outlets. here is a link to the owners manual on the PF30: www.belkin.com/support/download/download.asp?download=AP20800-10&lang=1&mode= |
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Post by briank on Jul 22, 2011 10:50:04 GMT -5
I always plug my amps directly into the wall, but I want my TV and all my front end components on a quality surge protector/conditioner to protect my investment. The APC offers the highest surge protection of these three based on the Joules rating and also offers the highest insurance of $750,000. Only $500 offered by Furman and only a 3 year warranty compared to 5 year on the APC. Belkin offers a lifetime warranty which equates to a 5 year warranty based on what I've read and they offer 350,000 in connected equipment coverage on the smaller Belkin and $500,000 on the Belkin pf60 which also has the highest joule rating of 7114. I like the Belkin PF60 the best except for the $599 price. The APC looks like maybe the best value. Oops, spoke too soon, I just saw the $195 Amazon price on the Belkin PF 60 thanks to the link posted above. :-). I may be ordering the Belkin today. Thanks Carlp!
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Post by Darksky on Jul 22, 2011 10:52:02 GMT -5
So you are saying that the amps aren't as sensitive to voltage spikes through the power supply as the other equipment?
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Post by RuggSkins on Jul 22, 2011 10:55:03 GMT -5
Power is an issue... when one has thousands invested into ones audio/video system, and within an instant, a brown-out or a power surge can damage the investment one made into their amplifiers, processors, subs and speakers... can one skimp on a power solution? IMHO No.
A power spike after a brown-out on a very warm summer day (due to everyone's AC usage) damaged one of my XPA-1s and one of my Gallo 3.1s. Both companies exhibited excellent customer service and repaired the products under warranty. Although I did have to pay to ship the products back to the manufacturers. Next time I may not be so lucky! I took control of the power issue.
I had a spike suppressor installed for the entire house at the main. At my system equipment rack, I installed a "power re-generation system" with battery backup takes my system off the power grid altogether. It takes the 110V in, converts it to 12 volts, then filters the power and produces a perfect sine wave and a constant 110v of clean and constant power to the entire system, not only protecting the system, but also improving the sound of the system and providing all the power the system requires. Was it cheap? Heck no. At around $3,000 list price it isn't cheap. Does it improve the sound of my system? Yes. Does it protect my system? Yes. Was it worth my investment in the Power Regeneration System as insurance against damaging 5 Speaker Gallo system, JL Audio Fathom F113, Emotiva XPA-1 ( times two), Emotiva MPS-1 and DMC-1, , and LaserVue TV... not to mention all of the other devices such as game systems, CD & DVD players & Music servers?
You tell me... when you invest in having quality sound, why would you skimp on; a) protecting that investment, and b) not conditioning the power to allow your system to sound its best?
Really?
I am very happy with my PurePower 2000. It has made a noticeable improvement in the sound of my system and I no longer am worrying about the electrical company frying my gear.
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Post by Darksky on Jul 22, 2011 11:07:57 GMT -5
Okay, what you have said makes sense to me, but I have to wonder why your whole house conditioner is not enough to rectify the situation. DId you have a surge protector on the damaged equipment when the spike Occured? I am asking not to be mean or intrusive, but because while I value my AV equipment I have much more money tied up in my HVAC equipment. Not to mention tools that stay plugged in continously, they are turned off at the switch when not in use, but are they vulnerable to damage as well? And if so, have I just been fortunate in the past.
I am not trying to skimp, which is why I am asking you all what you recommend. But I don't want to fall prey to the mindset that allows pride of ownership to overtake function.
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Post by Darksky on Jul 22, 2011 11:30:36 GMT -5
At the moment I am likint the Belkin PF60. Any other voices want to chime in?
Ruggskins- the more I think about it I just don't see the wisdom (for me) in investing $3K in a power conditioning system for my ht/stereo system. Maybe the whole house surge arrestor would be a good investment for me, but I don't know. I have lived out here for more than ten years without a major equipment failure (none really) I mean I wore out a coffee pot, but nothing electrical has fried. I never really worried about (more than buying probably cheapo surge protectors) it until today. I am out of my depth for sure.
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DYohn
Emo VIPs 
Posts: 18,489
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Post by DYohn on Jul 22, 2011 11:34:27 GMT -5
I have a PF60 and really like it. But yes, your amps should be plugged directly into the wall with everything else plugged into the conditioner.
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Post by RuggSkins on Jul 22, 2011 11:44:43 GMT -5
Okay, what you have said makes sense to me, but I have to wonder why your whole house conditioner is not enough to rectify the situation. DId you have a surge protector on the damaged equipment when the spike Occured? I am asking not to be mean or intrusive, but because while I value my AV equipment I have much more money tied up in my HVAC equipment. Not to mention tools that stay plugged in continously, they are turned off at the switch when not in use, but are they vulnerable to damage as well? And if so, have I just been fortunate in the past. I am not trying to skimp, which is why I am asking you all what you recommend. But I don't want to fall prey to the mindset that allows pride of ownership to overtake function. No worries and no mean intent accepted. I didn't have any spike suppression in place when my system was damaged. I followed Emotiva's recommendations and plugged system dirrectly into a dedicated 30amp wall outlet that I had installed to support power hungry Emotiva kit. Is my solution overkill? Some might say so. Some might say it's necessary. Does the Power-Regeneration system improve the sound of my system... IMHO probably more so than spending the same amount of money investing in another AMP or speaker upgrade. Pride of ownership... You bet. That being said, please don't take my word alone as gospel. Research online the benefits many others have experienced by addiing a power regeneration system. several companies are now making "power regeneration systems"... So even within the product parameters, there are choices. see also PSAudio I don't regret my decision/investment. If I did, I would have returned it for a refund or sold it. www.purepoweraps.com/APSreviews.htmwww.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/viewpoint/0610/audiolics_anonymous_chapter_128.htmhifi-unlimited.blogspot.com/2009/08/more-power-play-pure-power-aps-2000.htmlwww.whathifi.com/forum/your-system/purepower-2000-reviewThe cool thing about this hobby.... is to me it's just that, a hobby to be "enjoyed"... and a very subjective one that! There is no right or wrong way... only your way! Best of luck, keep smiling! |
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Post by briank on Jul 22, 2011 12:17:45 GMT -5
Thanks for all the info Rugskins, I really like the product you pointed out but too expensive for me right now. Definitely something to consider down the road.
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Post by RichGuy on Jul 22, 2011 12:23:38 GMT -5
I have the PF-60 and love it. I shopped around and looked at lot of power conditioners the PF-60 won out and I've never regretted it. It looks great, is very high quality, has excellent filtering, 6 individually protected banks, excellent protection and has more features than most other conditioners with excellent trigger and delay controls.
I have had my system plugged in through a variety of different sources, several different power conditioners, high end power strips, direct to wall and my PF-60 has been my favorite way of connection. Also yes I have noticed differences with different ways connecting especially with bass.
I also have and do prefer my XPA-2 and XPA-5 connected to the high current amp outlets of my PF-60. I have my sub connected directly to the wall. The only reason I have my sub connected to the wall is I only have the two high current amp outlets. Otherwise everything on my system is plugged into my PF-60.
Personally I think the PF-60 is an excellent conditioner and outshines other power conditioners at several times it's price. It originally sold for $799 msrp then later the price was reduced to $599 msrp and it can usually be bought for around $200 at this price it is definitely a great bargain compared to it's competitors.
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Post by briank on Jul 22, 2011 12:38:44 GMT -5
I have the PF-60 and love it. I shopped around and looked at lot of power conditioners the PF-60 won out and I've never regretted it. It looks great, is very high quality, has excellent filtering, 6 individually protected banks, excellent protection and has more features than most other conditioners with excellent trigger and delay controls. I have had my system plugged in through a variety of different sources, several different power conditioners, high end power strips, direct to wall and my PF-60 has been my favorite way of connection. Also yes I have noticed differences with different ways connecting especially with bass. I also have and do prefer my XPA-2 and XPA-5 connected to the high current amp outlets of my PF-60. I have my sub connected directly to the wall. The only reason I have my sub connected to the wall is I only have the two high current amp outlets. Otherwise everything on my system is plugged into my PF-60. Personally I think the PF-60 is an excellent conditioner and outshines other power conditioners at several times it's price. It originally sold for $799 msrp then later the price was reduced to $599 msrp and it can usually be bought for around $200 at this price it is definitely a great bargain compared to it's competitors. Thanks Richguy, I was actually trying to find some old postings from you last night regarding the Power conditioner you were recommending in the past, so thanks for posting today. I ordered the Belkin PF60 from Amazon today. May even consider a second one down the road. Thanks for everyone's help. Darksky, have you decided what your doing yet? |
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Post by Darksky on Jul 22, 2011 12:44:58 GMT -5
Ruggskins- I looked at all the reviews you posted and it seems like a great product. Not for me today though. I'm not broke, but it is not a wise use of my money. Maybe as I become more obsessed with Audio.
I just received an email from Vince @ Emotiva he states that "our electronic components come with full regulation and isolation in the design of our power supplies" in his opinion power conditioners are not needed. Surge protectors/conditioners may be used with the caveat of if they do not have current limitations that under power the needs of the equipment.
That said: why buy the pf60 over the pf30 if the amps are not plugged into it at all?
I am probably going to buy the bigger PF60 just to not be "skimping" but if money is an issue why not the pf30 that has more or less the same specs, just is smaller. By the way both are rack mountable and come with hardware.
Again, I am afraid the digital display on the PF60 is going to have me jumping up to unplug the dryer to avoid "death spikes"...
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