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Post by RichGuy on Aug 1, 2011 8:37:57 GMT -5
For anyone else still looking for a PC, my Furman Elite 15DMi is so beautiful and so perfectly matched to my Emo gear (a match made in heaven) that is virtually brings tears to my eyes! Actually another thing I like about the PF-60, it looks gorgeous with Emotiva gear. The PF-60's Blue LCD is an exact match for the Emo power button blue and they look great together. From what I can find the Belkin and Fruman are not really conditioners but more like surge protectors The PF-60 and the Furman are both far more than just surge protectors, personally I definitely prefer either of them over the H15 I did a lot of comparison and checked out a lot of power conditioners at the time I bought my PF-60 the PF-60 was definitely my favorite and I have never regretted my choice. My next favorite was Furman and I was considering a Furman model that cost many times what I paid for the PF-60. I have been very happy with my choice and have no regrets, the PF-60 is still my favorite. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2011 9:46:12 GMT -5
For anyone else still looking for a PC, my Furman Elite 15DMi is so beautiful and so perfectly matched to my Emo gear (a match made in heaven) that it virtually brings tears to my eyes!Actually another thing I like about the PF-60, it looks gorgeous with Emotiva gear. The PF-60's Blue LCD is an exact match for the Emo power button blue and they look great together.Is it so gorgeous that it brings tears to your eyes?  |
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Post by Darksky on Aug 1, 2011 12:10:07 GMT -5
I got a little misty this morning... Wait, no that's pee.
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selkec
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Post by selkec on Aug 1, 2011 12:24:31 GMT -5
For anyone else still looking for a PC, my Furman Elite 15DMi is so beautiful and so perfectly matched to my Emo gear (a match made in heaven) that is virtually brings tears to my eyes! Actually another thing I like about the PF-60, it looks gorgeous with Emotiva gear. The PF-60's Blue LCD is an exact match for the Emo power button blue and they look great together. From what I can find the Belkin and Fruman are not really conditioners but more like surge protectors The PF-60 and the Furman are both far more than just surge protectors, personally I definitely prefer either of them over the H15 I did a lot of comparison and checked out a lot of power conditioners at the time I bought my PF-60 the PF-60 was definitely my favorite and I have never regretted my choice. My next favorite was Furman and I was considering a Furman model that cost many times what I paid for the PF-60. I have been very happy with my choice and have no regrets, the PF-60 is still my favorite. The Apc H10 or H15 are also emo blue leds and lights so that is a plus. How did yuou decide they are better tha the apc h15. From what I see they are not. the Belkin has higher joulle rating but it is not a power conditoiner. It does not correct line sags or voltage fluxuations. It does not boost or lower the voltage. Not that I can see. Maybe I overlooked it. As for the Furman. I see nothing of any mention of joulle rating. And again it really does not keep the voltage at a constant 120.... So not sure what you were using to compare and make your decision but I think the apc wins hands down but against the belkin on joule rating. I think with furman your paying a little for the name probably. That does not make it better in my eyes. If I am missing something guys let me know. But the only true power conditioner of the 3 is the apc. The others really just over grown surge protectors only As for looks I like all 3 as that are all blue lights and great with Emo gear. But then again so is panamax but lets not complicate this anymore as their power conditioner like the apc is twice the price.... Any thoughts |
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Post by Darksky on Aug 1, 2011 12:44:59 GMT -5
I noticed that the PF60 does not have a phone line jack.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2011 14:39:27 GMT -5
But your assuming the H15 is better because it does line conditioning..... what if the conditioning in these units is not the greatest? is that better or worse for you gear than just a straight up design like a fp60?
I don't know the answer for sure but it is something I looked into before I bought my fp60 and the tests of the unit vs the cost of voltage conditioners and the actual benefit they ACTUALLY have vs snake oil, is what led me to purchase the FP60.
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selkec
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Post by selkec on Aug 1, 2011 14:55:01 GMT -5
My apc kicks in the line boost everytime my fridge or air conditioner kicks on or when the neighborhood has lower voltage coming too it. So to me I would think im my case its important. But I am starting to like the look of the belkin. My house is so damn old and the wiring is poor. I rent. one of my outlets causes hum so its no good. So I also have to use this for the outlets. If I had kept my h15 I would be fine. The h10 cant handle the big sub or amp plugged into it. Or barely all my components plus plasma tv. My plasma runs it to about 60% on HDTV. I bet my electric bill would drop if I got a different tv thats not plasma.
But with this said. I do not trust my wiring. Therefore I need atleast something to protect my ed a5-350 and xpa-5. I will not plug them into the wall. And besides Im one that does not believe they dont sound as good plugged into a conditioner. And I also dont want to worry about them getting fried and having to get them fixed. So this is for peice of mind mainly and protection of my gear.
If the voltage regulation is not something that matters then the belkin is winning with the high joule rating adnthe furman rating is a mystery.
Note I started a poll on these three
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2011 15:25:51 GMT -5
I really don't know if it matters or not. There is way to much conflicting info about the subject. though if your wiring is bad and your voltages are all over the place, That in it's self would stand to reason a voltage stabilizer would be a good idea in your case. I'm lucky as my place and our power here is very stable and I guess I take that for granted sometimes.
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kt10r
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Post by kt10r on Aug 1, 2011 15:48:33 GMT -5
I'd probably check and see if you plug into the high current outlets if that bypasses the "conditioning" or "regulating" in these units.
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selkec
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Post by selkec on Aug 1, 2011 16:26:39 GMT -5
Im not sure if it bypasses the conditioning. All I know is that its only rated 1kw. Not 1.5 like the three we are duscussing. And when Im really cranking out some loud music. The sub can puch the h10 to its max and the h10 shuts off. The 120% led light lights up in yellow and then shut down. I can also do this with the xpa5. And this is using the high current outputs.
Now with that being said I never had the h15 shut down. I just never thought the xpa5 or ed a5-350 would pull so much power.
If I didnt have bad power the belkin would be a no brainer to me as the price and joules and looks are right were I like it to be. The apc has less joule rating if that matters but has the power conditioning.
Does anyone here know if power fluctuations can be harmfull. Most the time im actually under 120 down around 115. sometimes lower. But sometimes around 125
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Post by RichGuy on Aug 1, 2011 19:38:45 GMT -5
I noticed that the PF60 does not have a phone line jack. They used to... it was one of the slight changes made when the msrp was dropped from $799 to $599. It also used to also come with rack mounts and a heavier and longer power cord, the cord is still very heavy and nice. |
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Post by RichGuy on Aug 1, 2011 20:38:00 GMT -5
Actually another thing I like about the PF-60, it looks gorgeous with Emotiva gear. The PF-60's Blue LCD is an exact match for the Emo power button blue and they look great together. The PF-60 and the Furman are both far more than just surge protectors, personally I definitely prefer either of them over the H15 I did a lot of comparison and checked out a lot of power conditioners at the time I bought my PF-60 the PF-60 was definitely my favorite and I have never regretted my choice. My next favorite was Furman and I was considering a Furman model that cost many times what I paid for the PF-60. I have been very happy with my choice and have no regrets, the PF-60 is still my favorite. The Apc H10 or H15 are also emo blue leds and lights so that is a plus. How did yuou decide they are better tha the apc h15. From what I see they are not. the Belkin has higher joulle rating but it is not a power conditoiner. It does not correct line sags or voltage fluxuations. It does not boost or lower the voltage. Not that I can see. Maybe I overlooked it. As for the Furman. I see nothing of any mention of joulle rating. And again it really does not keep the voltage at a constant 120.... So not sure what you were using to compare and make your decision but I think the apc wins hands down but against the belkin on joule rating. I think with furman your paying a little for the name probably. That does not make it better in my eyes. If I am missing something guys let me know. But the only true power conditioner of the 3 is the apc. The others really just over grown surge protectors only As for looks I like all 3 as that are all blue lights and great with Emo gear. But then again so is panamax but lets not complicate this anymore as their power conditioner like the apc is twice the price.... Any thoughts You are calling the H15 a power conditioner and other brands not because they don't have a feature unique to APC, no there are many power conditioners and the feature unique to the APC is one I don't want. I want my power conditioner to protect against under or over voltage not have the ability to up the voltage itself, what if the H15 has a failure which causes it to create it's own spike. I prefer the PF-60 for many reasons, the highest joule protection, great filtering, 6 completely isolated power banks (2 outlets per bank keeping components much more isolated from one another), advanced trigger options with built in "wall wart" trigger as well as 2.5mm triggers, advanced ON/OFF/delay options for each bank. Amperage usage meters overall and per power bank, quality of build, exceptionally nice looks with a styling that really compliments the rest of the system. This is just to name a few it's been a while since I did my shopping for power conditioners. I have had my system hooked up by several different means and it has performed it's best with the PF-60. Anyway I have been extremely happy with the PF-60 there is not another I would prefer and even if I had paid three times as much I think I would have been just as happy with my purchase as I preferred it to conditioners costing much much more. I think for the aprox $200 price it can be had it is definitely the best bargain and one of the best power conditioners. BTW my PF-60 does not kick in and has never shut OFF or create any noise or attract any attention to itself when power of any of my other appliances go on OFF or change... it's readings stay very stable though and I have only seen them gradually vary by a few volts no matter what power is being used. On another note you seem to think the H15 as being more expensive, it actually has a lower suggested retail price and was one of the lowest priced when it was on sale a couple times for $99 with free shipping, this was when I noticed it really became popular. |
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Post by selkec on Aug 2, 2011 16:23:21 GMT -5
The reason it went for 99 is because they discontinued the silver models. Those were the close out prices.. YOu could not get the black at$99. The same happened with the apch10.
I have never heard of anyone claiming the apc went nuts and produced a spike.
If maintaining a constant voltage of 120 and spikes and brownouts do not effect electronics then I would get the belkin pf60.
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Post by jamrock on Aug 2, 2011 18:59:42 GMT -5
I have the APC H15 Silver. I set the voltage range to narrow. No problem to date. I have it now for 2 years. Plus it has the exact blue LEDs like my Emo gears. Ouch!
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Post by hemster on Aug 2, 2011 20:01:42 GMT -5
I have the APC H15 Silver. I set the voltage range to narrow. No problem to date. I have it now for 2 years. Plus it has the exact blue LEDs like my Emo gears. Ouch! Ditto! I have the silver model and it looks and performs great! Ideally, I'd like the black model so it matches all the other components but then again, all my gear is hidden inside a custom-made cabinet so who cares? |
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Post by RichGuy on Aug 2, 2011 21:03:28 GMT -5
The reason it went for 99 is because they discontinued the silver models. Those were the close out prices.. YOu could not get the black at$99. The same happened with the apch10. I have never heard of anyone claiming the apc went nuts and produced a spike. If maintaining a constant voltage of 120 and spikes and brownouts do not effect electronics then I would get the belkin pf60. I was just saying that because when the $99 sale went on was when I noticed that people on the forums I visit were buying the H15 like crazy and they became very popular. I have never heard of people claiming it either but I want my power conditioner to protect my system from severe voltage changes not have the ability to increase the voltage itself. I would be more afraid of this ability and feel it adds no extra benefit. My system has always maintained a continuously stable voltage, it never changes quickly or rapidly if you sit and watch it rarely varies more than a few tenths of a volt, overall looking at it at different times, on different hours or different days it rarely varies more than 3-4 volts and it definitely does not change its sound quality by the amount of voltage it's receiving, its quality is always rock stable with no interruptions from either itself or other things operating on the circuit or throughout my home. Anyway everyone has their own opinions, like and dislikes. I did a lot of looking before I bought my PF-60 and thoroughly checked out power conditioners from every major brand current and older models including Furman, Panamax, Monster, APC and even others, costing from a couple hundred to a couple thousand dollars. I had the opportunity to buy a new top end Furman for around $800 which was about 1/4 its normal price. I preferred and choose the PF-60 this choice was not made on the price but it was the power conditioner I preferred. My second favorite was the very expensive Furman, next a a top end and discontinued Panamax, (I prefer the discontinued Panamax models to their new models). Then after that some other models from Furman and Panamax, then some high end Monster and I was least impressed with the APC H15 the only APC I would have considered at all. Also know I had no interest in a UPS of any kind as I do not want my AV system running on battery power which tends to limit performance rather than enhance it. Although I do have a very nice UPS on my computer. |
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Post by selkec on Aug 3, 2011 6:41:38 GMT -5
The ups is just to give your equipment time to shut down like if you have a projector or something that needs to cool. I would not suggest people keep on running the system off the battery. What makes the apc inferior in your eyes. The furman does not even list the joulles. The belkin has a high joule rating. So it wins in that category. Both have blue leds if you like to match looks. I must be over looking something that you are seeing if you are thinking its the worst of them all.
One side note I had the belkin with battery backup a few years back. It was junk. I plugged it in and it jumped around like crazy. No joke. I opened it up and a ground wire to something was not attached. I fixed it but it would also max out with my plasma tv and everything plugged into it. It did not ever shut down though like the h10
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Post by ausman on Aug 3, 2011 6:54:54 GMT -5
I find a company that covers so many area's of consumer electronics should never be trusted as you never know when something will fail..
yup I also agree there is a limitation with battery backup aswell though I would hope someone with enough sense to use a UPS on everything would have commonsense to have some type of automatic cut-over to a generator of some kind for the extended periods without power they may get..
selkec I might suggest you start looking at alternate power sources if your power regulation isn't stable...
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selkec
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Post by selkec on Aug 3, 2011 10:49:58 GMT -5
I find a company that covers so many area's of consumer electronics should never be trusted as you never know when something will fail.. yup I also agree there is a limitation with battery backup aswell though I would hope someone with enough sense to use a UPS on everything would have commonsense to have some type of automatic cut-over to a generator of some kind for the extended periods without power they may get.. selkec I might suggest you start looking at alternate power sources if your power regulation isn't stable... Its a rental house for now so Im just looking for cheap but effective while renting this house. It seems to be a pretty close between the two apc and belkin. But on the poll I started the apc is winning. If power fluctuations dont matter then the belkin would be the choice since its cheaper. |
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Post by RichGuy on Aug 3, 2011 21:33:56 GMT -5
The ups is just to give your equipment time to shut down like if you have a projector or something that needs to cool. I would not suggest people keep on running the system off the battery. What makes the apc inferior in your eyes. The furman does not even list the joulles. The belkin has a high joule rating. So it wins in that category. Both have blue leds if you like to match looks. I must be over looking something that you are seeing if you are thinking its the worst of them all. One side note I had the belkin with battery backup a few years back. It was junk. I plugged it in and it jumped around like crazy. No joke. I opened it up and a ground wire to something was not attached. I fixed it but it would also max out with my plasma tv and everything plugged into it. It did not ever shut down though like the h10 UPS systems are great for what they are designed for, mostly computers and things that require a cool down shutdown etc. But for superior sound quality they are not very good. For one many have fans which add to background noise, some can even be quite loud and even louder if the backup is used. Also battery systems are normally much dirtier power they just do not have the same sound quality that can be achieved with a nicely filtered power conditioner. Last they are often much more peak limiting affecting the bass output of connected amps or subwoofers. The best power conditioners at least in my opinion protect and filter unwanted noise. The conditioner itself should sit there as quiet as a rock, dead silent and attract no attention to itself (other than to look nice) while both protecting and filtering, if a serious spike occurs the system should be shut down to protect itself. Minor voltage fluctuations in the power are not harmful and do not affect quality. Isolation from other components connected to the power conditioner is very beneficial the best power conditioners have the most isolation between its own outlets. In other words a problem or any noise that one component may have will be isolated so it does not affect other components connected to the power conditioner. Different power conditioners have different amounts of isolated outlets many have only 2 or 3 with large numbers of outlets internally connected to each other with no protection or filtering separating them. More isolation between components is best. The PF-60 offers one of the most isolated with 6 isolated banks (2 outlets per bank). with 12 total rear outlets (a convenience front outlet shares one bank) The H15 has either 3 or 4 isolated banks (I can't find the info it looks more like 3 inside and more like 4 on the rear panel) 6 outlets are shared on one of its banks. With 12 total rear outlets. Here are pics of the insides of both the H15 top and the PF-60 bottom. The PF-60 is larger, deeper by about 4 inches aprox. 13.5" vs 9.5" and heavier by about 3 lbs aprox. 19 lb. vs 16 lb. ![]() www.petitesweets.com/pf60-h15.jpg [/img] |
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