XPA-1 clicking randomly

[Deleted]

I have an Adcom GFA-555 mkII that clicks (or did, haven't used it in a long time) because of the massive heat sinks expanded. I don't own this anymore, but I experienced the same clicking noise with a great sounding B&K ST 140 amp I had a few years back

If you don't like it, don't buy it. No one will fault you for exercising choice.

Dec 17, 2011 13:07:36 GMT -5 runnin17 said:

BS there is nothing to fix!!!! Do other amps in this price range click because of their heatsinks expanding? I know for a fact that sunfire and odyssey amps don't click.

THIS IS EMO'S REFERENCE LEVEL AMP AND IT HAS A KNOWN ISSUE THAT THEY HAVE YET TO FIX. That is completely unacceptable. Also, why the hell would I ever open up the amp and loosen the heatsinks. That is utter retarded. I am not going to go d***** around in the amp and possible void the warranty. This is a manufacturing issue. Anyone who can't see that is blind IMO and a complete EMO fanboi!

[stiehl11]

Dec 17, 2011 13:07:36 GMT -5 runnin17 said:

BS there is nothing to fix!!!! Do other amps in this price range click because of their heatsinks expanding? I know for a fact that sunfire and odyssey amps don't click.

THIS IS EMO'S REFERENCE LEVEL AMP AND IT HAS A KNOWN ISSUE THAT THEY HAVE YET TO FIX. That is completely unacceptable. Also, why the hell would I ever open up the amp and loosen the heatsinks. That is utter retarded. I am not going to go d***** around in the amp and possible void the warranty. This is a manufacturing issue. Anyone who can't see that is blind IMO and a complete EMO fanboi!

Sunfire's mono-block that is similar cost more than 3x the price. The Odyssey Stratos Extreme cost more than 3x the price and has less power (i.e. less heat).

So, there are no other amps like the XPA-1 from those manufacturers in this price range. So, as I've offered to people like you in the past: Simply send me $3,200 per XPA-1 mono-block amp you would like and I'll make sure that it performs to OEM specification (and won't click). I will take care of any shipping in the lower 48 states and it will ship with everything included. If there are any issues with the product when I receive it I will handle it with Emotiva so that you will not have to deal with it. It will simply be good out of the box when you receive it.

[stiehl11]

My 2 channel amp cost the same (actually a bit less) than an XPA-1 as well. And I bet the Adcom had less to offer. No clicking with my amp at all.

[roadrunner]

Would you say that Krell, Classe, McIntosh, and Boulder Amp make quality amps? So would I, but I have to tell you I have heard "clicking" from their heatsinks while auditioning high-end speaker systems in dealer showrooms. Is there something different about the expansion/contraction noises of the heatsinks in these ultra expensive amps that differentiate them from the XPA-1?

As was pointed out, the XPA-1 did not make any audible clicking sound during its early usage; and I am sure that all of the ultra expensive amps had no audible clicking noise from their heatsinks during the early usage. Would you say that all of these $20K to $50K amps have "known issues that have yet to be fixed"?

Eventually, with enough expansion/contraction cycles, any amplifier will develop audible noises when the heatsinks do their designed job. It is a law of physics, not a know issue needing to be fixed.

[runnin17]

All I keep hearing is excuses and that is simply not good enough. Only one of my XPA-1's click. The other one doesn't. The sound from both of them is the exact same as far as I can tell. So someone throw out an excuse for that!

You guys keep spouting your excuses and I will just spend my money elsewhere. Also, to the person who stated the whole "bang for the buck" argument. Who gives a flying terd the exact difference in price!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Emotiva advertises there products to be reference audiophile level components. Thus, they should perform at that level. If you want to harp on the affordability of Emo's products then fine, but that will never be an excuse I accept as legitimate.

[Lonnie]

I know I have said this in the past but since there are so many new friends, let me jump in here and put everyone's mind at ease.

The clicking sound you are hearing is coming from the heat sinks inside the amplifiers and will have no bearing on the performance or longevity of the unit. What is happening all comes down to thermal expansion (when the amps are running) and thermal compression (as the amps cool down). This is just a byproduct of all high bias amplifiers (the XPA-1 is currently the only high bias unit we manufacture). You see the root cause of a clicking sound is the aluminum heat sink expanding and contracting at a different rate from the steel chassis that it is mounted too. With any high bias amplifier design you will need larger heat sinks to dissipate the thermal energy that comes from the output devices. So large aluminum heat sinks are required for long term reliability. When rigidly mounted to a steel sub-structure (also needed to support the weight of the heat sinks) there will be expansion and contraction differences due to different thermal properties of steel vs. aluminum. In most cases the clicking sound is very soft and usually masked by the music being played. Since the metallurgic properties of both aluminum and steel alloys vary slightly during the foundry process, it is not unusual for one amp to be a little more prominent from the other.


So what you are hearing is completely normal and will occur in any high bias amplifier from any manufacture unless they use a aluminum chassis which will expand and contract at the same rate as the heat sinks.

Hope this helps.

Lonnie

[House]

this thread makes me LAUGH!

thank you lonnie for explaining metal expansion and contraction....people dont realize sometimes that there are NATURAL properties to all materials especially metals...that are completely unavoidable.....and if you think your money is better spent on "higher end" products......then simply.......


....cya, have a nice life......click click click tick tick tick tick click click click.

I used to be EXCESSIVELY ANAL...then finally someone slapped me in the back of my head and made me realize there is simply just way more important things in life to worry about than the ticks, clicks, hisses, and misses of everything and anything so materialistic in the world...

[monkumonku]

Dec 19, 2011 14:51:24 GMT -5 Lonnie said:

I know I have said this in the past but since there are so many new friends, let me jump in here and put everyone's mind at ease.

The clicking sound you are hearing is coming from the heat sinks inside the amplifiers and will have no bearing on the performance or longevity of the unit. What is happening all comes down to thermal expansion (when the amps are running) and thermal compression (as the amps cool down). This is just a byproduct of all high bias amplifiers (the XPA-1 is currently the only high bias unit we manufacture). You see the root cause of a clicking sound is the aluminum heat sink expanding and contracting at a different rate from the steel chassis that it is mounted too. With any high bias amplifier design you will need larger heat sinks to dissipate the thermal energy that comes from the output devices. So large aluminum heat sinks are required for long term reliability. When rigidly mounted to a steel sub-structure (also needed to support the weight of the heat sinks) there will be expansion and contraction differences due to different thermal properties of steel vs. aluminum. In most cases the clicking sound is very soft and usually masked by the music being played. Since the metallurgic properties of both aluminum and steel alloys vary slightly during the foundry process, it is not unusual for one amp to be a little more prominent from the other.


So what you are hearing is completely normal and will occur in any high bias amplifier from any manufacture unless they use a aluminum chassis which will expand and contract at the same rate as the heat sinks.

Hope this helps.

Lonnie

Thanks, Lonnie. I love my XPA-1's and haven't heard any clicking. Since you are "here" I would like to ask you a question about these amps:

I recently bought mine from another lounge member. When I turn them on, there is a low-level buzz (not a hum, but more like an electrical static-type buzz) that I can hear from the speakers. It is not that loud but loud enough to hear from my listening position. Over the next minute or so, the volume decreases and the buzz disappears. What I can hear after that, with my ear right up to the tweeters, is hiss. I can't hear the hiss off-axis, or if I move my ear more than about a foot away it becomes inaudible.

I am wondering - is this normal? Do you know what could be causing the buzz? This happens with both amps, and also happens whether or not I have any source connected to the amp (i.e., same if I have the UMC-1 connected, or if it is just the amps feeding the speakers with nothing plugged into the inputs). And is the tweeter hiss normal? Since it happens with both amps I am thinking it is not a defect of the amps but I figured I should ask the expert. Thanks!

[Lonnie]

Dec 19, 2011 15:03:23 GMT -5 monkumonku said:

Dec 19, 2011 14:51:24 GMT -5 Lonnie said:

I know I have said this in the past but since there are so many new friends, let me jump in here and put everyone's mind at ease.

The clicking sound you are hearing is coming from the heat sinks inside the amplifiers and will have no bearing on the performance or longevity of the unit. What is happening all comes down to thermal expansion (when the amps are running) and thermal compression (as the amps cool down). This is just a byproduct of all high bias amplifiers (the XPA-1 is currently the only high bias unit we manufacture). You see the root cause of a clicking sound is the aluminum heat sink expanding and contracting at a different rate from the steel chassis that it is mounted too. With any high bias amplifier design you will need larger heat sinks to dissipate the thermal energy that comes from the output devices. So large aluminum heat sinks are required for long term reliability. When rigidly mounted to a steel sub-structure (also needed to support the weight of the heat sinks) there will be expansion and contraction differences due to different thermal properties of steel vs. aluminum. In most cases the clicking sound is very soft and usually masked by the music being played. Since the metallurgic properties of both aluminum and steel alloys vary slightly during the foundry process, it is not unusual for one amp to be a little more prominent from the other.


So what you are hearing is completely normal and will occur in any high bias amplifier from any manufacture unless they use a aluminum chassis which will expand and contract at the same rate as the heat sinks.

Hope this helps.

Lonnie

Thanks, Lonnie. I love my XPA-1's and haven't heard any clicking. Since you are "here" I would like to ask you a question about these amps:

I recently bought mine from another lounge member. When I turn them on, there is a low-level buzz (not a hum, but more like an electrical static-type buzz) that I can hear from the speakers. It is not that loud but loud enough to hear from my listening position. Over the next minute or so, the volume decreases and the buzz disappears. What I can hear after that, with my ear right up to the tweeters, is hiss. I can't hear the hiss off-axis, or if I move my ear more than about a foot away it becomes inaudible.

I am wondering - is this normal? Do you know what could be causing the buzz? This happens with both amps, and also happens whether or not I have any source connected to the amp (i.e., same if I have the UMC-1 connected, or if it is just the amps feeding the speakers with nothing plugged into the inputs). And is the tweeter hiss normal? Since it happens with both amps I am thinking it is not a defect of the amps but I figured I should ask the expert. Thanks!

Now that is one I have not run across yet. The back ground hiss is normal and just thermal noise from the transistors operating. This is also something you will find with any amp. But the Buzz is something new. Off hand I really couldn't say what would be causing this but I will look into it. If there was a defective part in the front end for example, then it would buzz all the time. But that it goes away after a short time makes it a bit more difficult to pin point. Hmmmmm............Honestly I don't know, but I will look into it.

[monkumonku]

Dec 19, 2011 15:31:48 GMT -5 Lonnie said:

Dec 19, 2011 15:03:23 GMT -5 monkumonku said:

Thanks, Lonnie. I love my XPA-1's and haven't heard any clicking. Since you are "here" I would like to ask you a question about these amps:

I recently bought mine from another lounge member. When I turn them on, there is a low-level buzz (not a hum, but more like an electrical static-type buzz) that I can hear from the speakers. It is not that loud but loud enough to hear from my listening position. Over the next minute or so, the volume decreases and the buzz disappears. What I can hear after that, with my ear right up to the tweeters, is hiss. I can't hear the hiss off-axis, or if I move my ear more than about a foot away it becomes inaudible.

I am wondering - is this normal? Do you know what could be causing the buzz? This happens with both amps, and also happens whether or not I have any source connected to the amp (i.e., same if I have the UMC-1 connected, or if it is just the amps feeding the speakers with nothing plugged into the inputs). And is the tweeter hiss normal? Since it happens with both amps I am thinking it is not a defect of the amps but I figured I should ask the expert. Thanks!

Now that is one I have not run across yet. The back ground hiss is normal and just thermal noise from the transistors operating. This is also something you will find with any amp. But the Buzz is something new. Off hand I really couldn't say what would be causing this but I will look into it. If there was a defective part in the front end for example, then it would buzz all the time. But that it goes away after a short time makes it a bit more difficult to pin point. Hmmmmm............Honestly I don't know, but I will look into it.

Well I thought I would make your life more interesting... as if you didn't have enough to do already. ;D I asked Vince about this and he didn't really know what it could be but thought it was nothing to be alarmed about. No offense to Vince but I figured if anyone would know the answer, you would. Someone said it must be the "ghost in the system" and considering everything I have tried and it occurs with both amps, I'm thinking that might be the final answer. But if you figure out what it could be, I'd sure appreciate it! The buzz is totally gone after a minute.

[Lonnie]

Dec 19, 2011 15:36:54 GMT -5 monkumonku said:

Dec 19, 2011 15:31:48 GMT -5 Lonnie said:

Now that is one I have not run across yet. The back ground hiss is normal and just thermal noise from the transistors operating. This is also something you will find with any amp. But the Buzz is something new. Off hand I really couldn't say what would be causing this but I will look into it. If there was a defective part in the front end for example, then it would buzz all the time. But that it goes away after a short time makes it a bit more difficult to pin point. Hmmmmm............Honestly I don't know, but I will look into it.

Well I thought I would make your life more interesting... as if you didn't have enough to do already. ;D I asked Vince about this and he didn't really know what it could be but thought it was nothing to be alarmed about. No offense to Vince but I figured if anyone would know the answer, you would. Someone said it must be the "ghost in the system" and considering everything I have tried and it occurs with both amps, I'm thinking that might be the final answer. But if you figure out what it could be, I'd sure appreciate it! The buzz is totally gone after a minute.

No problem, there is an answer, what that may be. Not sure right now, but we will find it.

Thanks for your patience, we will dig into it.

[monkumonku]

Dec 19, 2011 16:00:16 GMT -5 Lonnie said:

Dec 19, 2011 15:36:54 GMT -5 monkumonku said:

Well I thought I would make your life more interesting... as if you didn't have enough to do already. ;D I asked Vince about this and he didn't really know what it could be but thought it was nothing to be alarmed about. No offense to Vince but I figured if anyone would know the answer, you would. Someone said it must be the "ghost in the system" and considering everything I have tried and it occurs with both amps, I'm thinking that might be the final answer. But if you figure out what it could be, I'd sure appreciate it! The buzz is totally gone after a minute.

No problem, there is an answer, what that may be. Not sure right now, but we will find it.

Thanks for your patience, we will dig into it.

Thank you, I appreciate it! (please just don't file it away in the X-Files.. or E-Files) ;D

[NorthStar]

Rickie, I am not totally sure, but I think it could be perhaps the amp transformer or the caps being energized when the amp is powered on.
Then the buzz, like you said disappears after a minute or so.

Just a thought...

[eusebio]

is there anyone else with an XPA-1 that lives close by. the fact that both of them have the same buzz seems odd. if a 3rd XPA-1 were to have the same result then i would guess the culprit is elsewhere in the chain.. either way good luck

and if you aren't happy i'd be happy to trade my UPA-1s for your XPA-1s straight up

[monkumonku]

Dec 19, 2011 23:20:15 GMT -5 eusebio said:

is there anyone else with an XPA-1 that lives close by. the fact that both of them have the same buzz seems odd. if a 3rd XPA-1 were to have the same result then i would guess the culprit is elsewhere in the chain.. either way good luck

and if you aren't happy i'd be happy to trade my UPA-1s for your XPA-1s straight up

That's a good idea - trying a 3rd XPA-1... NOT trading for the UPA-1's. ;D

But who would want to lug an XPA-1 around like that to test? I'll wait to hear what Lonnie has to say. ;D

[monkumonku]

Dec 19, 2011 23:15:21 GMT -5 NorthStar said:

Rickie, I am not totally sure, but I think it could be perhaps the amp transformer or the caps being energized when the amp is powered on.
Then the buzz, like you said disappears after a minute or so.

Just a thought...

Thanks. That is what someone else suggested too, but then I would think if that were the case, Lonnie would have thought the same thing, as well.

[wizardofoz]

Aluminum and steel expand and contract at different rates as most dissimilar metals will and the end result is some give and take, so the noise I's just the stress and strain of different expansion rates as the metals heat up and cool down...if it bothers you you can as suggested by some just finger tight the screws, perhaps leaving one end or the middle only tight and see how that goes.

I fully expect to have to do this when I get my xpa-1's in a few days. Does not bother me at all

[NorthStar]

Big powerful amps have huge transformers and lots of microfarad capacitance (read several larger or smaller caps), and several power output transistors, and a lot of heatsink area, and aluminum and metal and they are heavy, and consume more power from your electrical AC outlet.

When you play with the big boys, you have greater chance to encounter different behavior to what you are normally used to.

A fridge is noisy, a working stove or oven is noisy, a micowave oven is noisy, an outside electrical line power transformer is noisy, an inside electric block heater is noisy, a fan is noisy, a front projector is noisy, an inside air conditioning is noisy, a toaster is noisy, a car/truck engine is noisy, an active city night is noisy, lights are noisy, a discotheque is noisy, a Jazz club is noisy, a PC is noisy, an Apple Mac is noisy, electricity is noisy, an air purifier is noisy, a power conditioner is noisy, a central power nuclear plant is noisy, a generator is noisy, a jet plane is noisy, an electrical toothbrush is noisy, an electric razor is noisy, a nose trimmer is noisy, noise is noisy...

[12elfthfloor]

The buzz you hear on start up is he same for me too. gone after a minute or 2.

it is only from one amp/speaker and when i swap them around with other amps it follows, so definitely Amp. Also tried with all sources disconnected. Same.

also keen to hear any feedback on the cause.

on the clicking... mine do it. I've had my amps apart many times replacing LED panels, and yep there is some pretty big heat-sinks in there along with a lot of differing metals so can see why. Acceptable to me from a design perspective? no not really. living with it... i think i am way worse company so yeah no problem.

they also make gobs of good noise too.

[sharky]

Boulder Amps has just released their new 3050. It's 1500W continuous and it doesn't click as it's all Alu both chassis and heatsinks.
If you don't need all that power you can save the $195K it costs (each) and go, for instance, for the DaVinci Virtu Master Ref, it's all alu as well, so it won't click. It's 40W into 8 Ohm and price is available upon request.

What? I'm just throwing solutions here... ;D