klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Aug 11, 2012 20:40:01 GMT -5
and to rclark...PS...how much "assembly is required" on Ncores...I can do fine connecting things to things, as long as they are not too small. Bifocal eyes are not good for soldering small parts onto PCB's! But, they can connect wires from board to board.
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Post by rclark on Aug 11, 2012 22:01:54 GMT -5
You have to buy two nc400 amp modules and the two smps600 power supplies. The prices are in euros and there is a currency calculator. Then you have to buy either one big chassis, or mono chassis' if you prefer, and your preference in connectors (cardas are the most popular).
No I have not heard the xpa-1's but their reputation is that they are excellent amps for the money but fall short when compared at a world class level (Audio Research, Accuphase, etc) but these Ncores are proving themselves so far as world beaters. I can attest to the extreme level of sound on my Maggie's, it's the best sound I've heard so far, bar none, in any system.
and they are bridgeable for 1200 watts power.
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Post by rclark on Aug 11, 2012 22:32:12 GMT -5
Oh and as far as building, someone is doing mine for me (I've been demoing them over the weekend, I send them out on Monday), I'm sure you could find someone handy with DIY to lend a hand. It's worth a try if you can swing it. Your 1.7's should love them.
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Aug 12, 2012 11:35:57 GMT -5
Hmmm...this looks like something I could build myself! It looks like the amp modules and power supplies have everything connected to a PCB that would need connected, so it's a matter of connecting inputs & outputs to the amp modules and power supplies - which appear to be plug in's and/or screw connections + mounting it all inside some box. I will have to research this more and think about "biting the bullet" before I think about XPA-1's.
Just to make sure I have this right, I'd need an nc400 module and smps600 power supply to make a monoblock, along with whatever box & input/output connectors I wanted. It looks like the cabling to connect the module and power supply is included. I see references to managing heat...I presume one also needs to get heat sinks or fans...right?
Looks quite intriguing!
Mark
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Post by roadrunner on Aug 12, 2012 14:48:30 GMT -5
I am curious to see what Emotiva's Class D power amps are going to be like. Big Dan mentioned that Emotiva will be entering that market segment in the near future. I got the feeling they are going to being entering that market, Big Time. If I remember what he said, they will be releasing product during 2013. Maybe we can pick Dan's mind at Emofest for more details. Hmm, I wonder if this might be one of the surprises he mentioned in the podcast.
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Post by rclark on Aug 12, 2012 16:29:13 GMT -5
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Post by rclark on Aug 12, 2012 16:35:10 GMT -5
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Aug 12, 2012 16:44:26 GMT -5
Thanks for all the info...it looks like I can easily get all I want/need for around $1400 to make 2 monoblocks. And, from all I read - the sound is sweet and the build is pretty simple (within my abilities!).
I am strongly leaning toward ordering some. Right now, the 400's are sold out, so I'd have to get in line to get my order. Decisions, decisions...
Also - a question...the ones you demo'd...what kind of cases were they in? The ones in the link have no ventilation holes and that just seems wrong. I would think some type of venting would be needed.
Mark
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Post by GreenKiwi on Aug 12, 2012 18:00:58 GMT -5
At $1400, you might get into the range of the XPR-2, don't know how much it will be... Or two used xpa-1s
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Post by jackfish on Aug 12, 2012 18:39:24 GMT -5
cecilg...I do wonder what the mods would do for 1.7's. I plan to enjoy them "as is" for now. And, if/when I get tired of them "as is"...I will look to the mod's or 3.7's. The all quasi-ribbon Magnepans are a different animal and are not as well suited to the Magnestand modification. The 1.6QR Magnestand modified compares well to the $45,000 Wilson MAXX 2, while the Magnestand MG12s I heard side by side a $17,000/pair of Vandersteen 5As were every bit as good except for the lowest octave. www.indiespinzone.com/mag/mag1.7.html
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Post by paintedklown on Aug 12, 2012 19:49:50 GMT -5
These (NCore amps) look very interesting indeed, but I am a believer in the idea that "There is no such thing as too much power". At only 200w into 8ohms and 400w into 4ohms, I have to believe that you would be getting more bang for your buck by going with a couple of XPA-1s (500w/1000w) or an XPA-2 300w/500w). Magnepan speakers are very power hungry, and I feel the extra power may serve them very well. This is ONLY my opinion from looking at the specs though, as I have not heard all amps in question here. If these amplifiers measure flat, as do Emotiva amplifiers, then I would assume (perhaps incorrectly) it would be impossible to differentiate them from Emo amps when level matched in a double blind listening test. For the record, I am NOT trying to start that debate, I am just saying what I think might be the case and will admit up front that I do not know for sure and could be VERY wrong. Having said that, I am interested in hearing what these amplifiers sound like. In the very little reading I have done, they seem to have a class A section to amplify the line level input, and then a class D section to amplify (boost the output level) of the class A signal. Thus, making an amplifier with high output, and class A sound quality, for a low cost. Is that a correct understanding? It certainly is an interesting idea IMO (if my understanding is correct) and it will be interesting to see how this technology develops and continues to mature. Either way, these amplifers seem to be making a BIG splash in the audio community...10,000 audiophiles can't be wrong. EDIT: By the way, Mark, I am excited to hear your impressions of your new Maggies. I have read the info regarding the Magnestand mod and the 1.7 series and feel that if you are in love with the sound of the 1.7s stock, then the mod (which is quite costly IMO) isn't really necessary. It seems to have a bigger effect/impact on the sound of the 1.6s, from what I have read at Peter Gunns web site. I certainly don't think you went wrong with the 1.7s and since Maggies require a subwoofer either way, then just listen and enjoy!
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Aug 12, 2012 20:24:49 GMT -5
Not sure about the A/D aspect...never found that yet in my reading. All I have seen only mentions class D. But, as you note - they are making a big splash in the community. Every review I've found has raved. And, ultimately, which "class" an amp is only means so much...how it sounds is more important than a label.
Given I already have an XPA-2, I have plenty of power for my (soon to arrive this week) Maggies. As you note - I am curious to hear the nCores myself. So, specs/power be damned...the reviews make it appear to be a different and good sound.
In any case, if I buy the nCores, I will for sure be comparing them to my XPA-2. I find specs can be very misleading. They only compare what is measured, not what is not measured (which may be important). So, I like to check specs, read reviews, give a listen myself if possible - but if not, decide based on word of mouth + specs.
In this specific case, if I like them better, then "super"...I get an upgrade for less cost than the XPA-1's! If not, I can decide what to do...sell them, use them in another system in my house, whatever...
And at this point, I have decided I will almost for sure be trying them. My main question now is timing...when will they be available again + when will the XSP-1 actually be here. I'd plan to run ERC-2 to XSP-1 w/XLR's, then XSP to nCores also via XLR. The nCores won't be set up to run RCA when I build them, so I need to be able to go from preamp to amp w/XLR's...something I do not have w/my USP-1.
Mark
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Post by rclark on Aug 12, 2012 20:27:16 GMT -5
I have no doubt in my mind these amps are far beyond anything Emotiva has on offer, all due respect. Read the reviews. Those are guys with pricey systems and decades of experience a lot of them, pure audiophiles, no ht stuff. Go to the website and look at the measurements to, they are beyond anything you can get in this price range. Definitely not just another amp.
200 watts is a lot at 8ohms but I believe they bridge for 600 watts. The 400 watts at 4ohms is perfect for the Maggie's.
But it's more than the power, it's the quality of the power, and these are phenomenal. I have no doubt that when the very pricey retail nc1200 versions come out, they will sweep every award possible. Being hailed as a disruptive tech, a game changer.
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Post by paintedklown on Aug 12, 2012 21:21:39 GMT -5
Not sure about the A/D aspect...never found that yet in my reading. All I have seen only mentions class D. But, as you note - they are making a big splash in the community. Every review I've found has raved. And, ultimately, which "class" an amp is only means so much...how it sounds is more important than a label. Given I already have an XPA-2, I have plenty of power for my (soon to arrive this week) Maggies. As you note - I am curious to hear the nCores myself. So, specs/power be damned...the reviews make it appear to be a different and good sound. In any case, if I buy the nCores, I will for sure be comparing them to my XPA-2. I find specs can be very misleading. They only compare what is measured, not what is not measured (which may be important). So, I like to check specs, read reviews, give a listen myself if possible - but if not, decide based on word of mouth + specs. In this specific case, if I like them better, then "super"...I get an upgrade for less cost than the XPA-1's! If not, I can decide what to do...sell them, use them in another system in my house, whatever... And at this point, I have decided I will almost for sure be trying them. My main question now is timing...when will they be available again + when will the XSP-1 actually be here. I'd plan to run ERC-2 to XSP-1 w/XLR's, then XSP to nCores also via XLR. The nCores won't be set up to run RCA when I build them, so I need to be able to go from preamp to amp w/XLR's...something I do not have w/my USP-1. Mark Mark, you are correct, the Ncore is a pure class D amp. I was reading the 6moons info and it says " The Devialet however is not a real class D amplifier. The sound and textures all derive from its tiny class A amplifier circuit. The hybridized class D follower stage simply boosts it. The best part of that unusual arrangement is that this follower neither adds nor subtracts anything. It simply boosts the class A signal. And boy what a great job it does of it." I thought this was talking about the Ncore, but it was instead talking about a previous design from Hypex. Sorry about the confusion.
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Post by paintedklown on Aug 12, 2012 21:32:49 GMT -5
I have no doubt in my mind these amps are far beyond anything Emotiva has on offer, all due respect. Read the reviews. Those are guys with pricey systems and decades of experience a lot of them, pure audiophiles, no ht stuff. Go to the website and look at the measurements to, they are beyond anything you can get in this price range. Definitely not just another amp. 200 watts is a lot at 8ohms but I believe they bridge for 600 watts. The 400 watts at 4ohms is perfect for the Maggie's. But it's more than the power, it's the quality of the power, and these are phenomenal. I have no doubt that when the very pricey retail nc1200 versions come out, they will sweep every award possible. Being hailed as a disruptive tech, a game changer. Don't get me wrong here, I am excited about these amplifiers as well. The hype they have generated is nothing short of a "phenomenon". I suppose I am just skeptical of how the quality can vary that much if the amplifiers (Emo and Hypex)are both working properly. I know that hearing is believeing though, and will say up front that I may indeed be totally wrong about the differences in sound (quality) these amplifiers are reported to exude.
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Post by rclark on Aug 12, 2012 21:42:49 GMT -5
Thanks for all the info...it looks like I can easily get all I want/need for around $1400 to make 2 monoblocks. And, from all I read - the sound is sweet and the build is pretty simple (within my abilities!). I am strongly leaning toward ordering some. Right now, the 400's are sold out, so I'd have to get in line to get my order. Decisions, decisions... Also - a question...the ones you demo'd...what kind of cases were they in? The ones in the link have no ventilation holes and that just seems wrong. I would think some type of venting would be needed. Mark I am using the cases provided in the Tour, and I will post pics in a bit. They don't have vents, but the designer himself has said they are unneccessary. I was rocking these amps all day yesterday and they got just barely warm to the touch. And they are so efficient they sip just a couple of watts at idle. Definitely easy on the power bill. Some fun facts: the amp modules are barely 2.5 inches across yet are capable of 600 watts into 1 ohm! Also, so far reported is that the SMPS600 power supply is also an engineering feat, so good that it doesn't require power conditioning at all! So you save money there as well. The power supply is just that good. I can attest to this, because my current amp is a battery powered Virtue Two.2, totally off the grid, and this Ncore WIPES THE FLOOR WITH IT. Dead silent, and the space between the notes... I am quite certain the Ncore creates a mini black hole and whatever extraneous noise that isn't simply music gets sucked in and destroyed.
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Post by rclark on Aug 12, 2012 21:45:18 GMT -5
I have no doubt in my mind these amps are far beyond anything Emotiva has on offer, all due respect. Read the reviews. Those are guys with pricey systems and decades of experience a lot of them, pure audiophiles, no ht stuff. Go to the website and look at the measurements to, they are beyond anything you can get in this price range. Definitely not just another amp. 200 watts is a lot at 8ohms but I believe they bridge for 600 watts. The 400 watts at 4ohms is perfect for the Maggie's. But it's more than the power, it's the quality of the power, and these are phenomenal. I have no doubt that when the very pricey retail nc1200 versions come out, they will sweep every award possible. Being hailed as a disruptive tech, a game changer. Don't get me wrong here, I am excited about these amplifiers as well. The hype they have generated is nothing short of a "phenomenon". I suppose I am just skeptical of how the quality can vary that much if the amplifiers (Emo and Hypex)are both working properly. I know that hearing is believeing though, and will say up front that I may indeed be totally wrong about the differences in sound (quality) these amplifiers are reported to exude. That is the difference between good value and world class. There is a difference. This amp compares with 20 and 30,000 dollar amps. The Xpa, not so much. Of course, XPA-1's, modded, have a good reputation if you want to go that route. But if you want the best of the best, bleeding edge amp technology, this is it. I'm just one voice of a growing throng.
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Post by rclark on Aug 12, 2012 23:01:45 GMT -5
I do want to throw out one caveat. If your system sucks, putting Ncores in will not solve anything. If you have junky cheap speakers, a junky cheap preamp, etc, it's likely they will need to be upgraded as well to get the full potential of these amps. It's as though a UFO descended and handed you a 400 horsepower engine that only weighs 3 pounds. Well if the rest of your stereo is the equivalent of a Kia Optima... Just sayin. It will cause you to upgrade the rest of your parts.
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Post by Entity on Aug 12, 2012 23:18:21 GMT -5
Of course not, it's just an amplifier. It would be a little silly to expect it to perform some kind of mind blowing, perception altering kind of experience.
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Post by rclark on Aug 12, 2012 23:36:00 GMT -5
Oh believe me, everything in place, it is a perception warping, addictive experience. I dont get my permanent Ncores till Nov. I am crying that I have to go back to my old amp till then. And my old amp rules!
my heavily modified, battery powered Virtue is NO SLOUCH.
I'm listening to the Ncores right now in my system and it is like listening to an audio hologram of the bands. The Virtue had nice 3D properties, but this is like a high definition hologram. Absolutely effortless and stunning.
Most impressive, being with a raw ERC-2 using the ERC-2 dac. It will be interesting to experiment by adding the XDA-2 and an Empirical Audio Synchromesh as are my plans.
I was worried the Emotiva gear wouldn't mate well, but it sounds nice. Of course, the Ncores could have more performance extracted with more high end equipment, many of the guys running them have high five figure preamps and the like, but it is good to know the Emotiva source gear makes a good match for these amps on the "fantastic value" end of the spectrum of which I am still a part of.
the ERC-2 does sound excellent with these and gives me confidence to move forward with an XDA-2 and XSP-1.
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