ARRIVED!!! Pulled the trigger: Maggie 1.7's...

[GreenKiwi]

rclark thanks for all the comments... my actual reasoning for asking about them in comparison to the XPA-1 wasn't questioning whether they were better or worse, but using the XPA-1 as a common baseline for performance that people could understand, as the emo amps that many of us have have similar characteristics to the XPA-1.

Similar to how many many headphone reviews all use the HD-650 as the baseline for comparisons, not because the 650 is the best headphone in the world... but because it provides a baseline that people can understand. Many people have heard/know the 650 and can describe their preferences in reference to that sound.

At any rate, the nCores definitely have me excited. I actually had some of the old big tripath boards (not the little T amps, but the 200-400W boards)... but then travel, relocation and building a power supply that had +-90V DC delayed building that indefinitely.

[rclark]

Don't do the romeyn chassis! They are having issues with it. Pm user jtwrace and he will get you pointed in the right direction. Htcoz as well.

Your first few posts will be approved to make sure you aren't a robot, so be patient for a day or two

[klinemj]

Thanks...what possible issues could one have with a chassis? Seems straightforward...

Mark

[rclark]

some parts were misaligned? I don't get it either. There are plenty of options though. You'll be alright.

[klinemj]

strange...I can always pre-drill my own. That's what a drill-press is for!

[rclark]

Oh nice!

[GreenKiwi]

I wish I had a DP. Or better yet, one of those multi axis CnC machines KD creates his cool toys with.

[paintedklown]

There is always a lot of talk about the Magnestand modded Magnepans becoming something spectacular, but I am curious about stock Maggies, specifically, the MMGs.

I have heard them a tiny bit in the past, but not much. In fact, all of this Magnepan talk has me SERIOUSLY considering, just "doing it" and selling my B&Ws to get some MMGs.

I am going after work tomorrow to have another listen to Maggies before I make the final decision. In fact, I am thinking I will probably make several trips down to listen before ultimately making the switch. Fortunately, I have a local Magnepan dealer, so the drive is only across town for me.

To me, changing your speakers is a HUGE system change, and since I will have to sell my B&Ws at a loss to get the MMGs, and if I end up not loving the MMGs, I would have to then take another loss, and feel like I had made a terrible mistake. As silly as it sounds, that's a bit of a scary proposition for me.

A LOT to consider...

[GreenKiwi]

Hopefully your dealer will let you listen to them for a week or more...

[rclark]

Well I can describe the changes in detail. They are, as the publisher of Tone Magazine describes "scary good" with high end amplification, and I can attest to this, with the Ncores on them, flat out the best sound I've ever heard.

The MMG's stock are quite different from the Magnestand version. I'll make a post tommorrow to tell you about it but I'm about to crash. But money very very well spent and I am totally thrilled with the result, especially after having had the Ncores on them this past three days. Just gobsmackingly good.

[paintedklown]

Aug 14, 2012 1:29:11 GMT -5 rclark said:

Well I can describe the changes in detail. They are, as the publisher of Tone Magazine describes "scary good" with high end amplification, and I can attest to this, with the Ncores on them, flat out the best sound I've ever heard.

The MMG's stock are quite different from the Magnestand version. I'll make a post tommorrow to tell you about it but I'm about to crash. But money very very well spent and I am totally thrilled with the result, especially after having had the Ncores on them this past three days. Just gobsmackingly good.

Sounds good. I will be looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

As stated, all of this Magnepan talk has got my wheels turning again. ;D

Anyway, I decided to e-mail John (Peter Gunn) to ask for a recommendation regarding what Magnepan model to purchase with the intent of later getting them modded by him.

I specifically asked about smooth highs (sibilance seems to be my mortal enemy) and what models would reach the lowest octaves after modding. I REALLY want to avoid using a sub if possible, but I do listen to a lot of electronic music (dubstep mostly) and need "full range" towers if that is possible with these.

If his answer (or anyone here with modded Maggies) comes back that subs are needed for all the models for deep bass, then the answer is easy. Just get the MMGs and call it a day. ;D

Mark, I apologize to you sir, as I am sincerely not trying to jack your thread. This discussion has just "turned a lot of corners" and is providing a lot of great information and food for thought.

Please let us know when them 1.7s get in...I think I am as excited for you to get them as you are. ;D

[klinemj]

no problem at all paintedklown...this thread has gone all over, but the common bit on Maggies remains! FYI, I had a similar "all this talk about Maggies" moment a month ago...that's what got me to go listen!

You know the rest...

[harri009]

Honestly, I could not imagine being happy that I spent 5 times more on a mod for the MMG than I did on the speaker itself. I would much rather spend my money going up in the maggie line than paying some dude to redo what the guys in Minnesota decided they should sound like. Mr. Winey was asked about the mods and if they ever planned on doing something to the effect from the factory. I cannot find the article now but his reply was something to the effect of that they have re-build the speakers many times using the mods and don't feel they are necessary. Also PK you could always do the direct from factory 60 day trial program on the MMG to decide if you could live with the change. But for the $3000 you are going to spend on modded MMG's you could get a pair of used 3.6's, just saying I would much rather have the 3.6's for that money.

[jackfish]

From my observations, the Magnestand modification of non-.7 Magnepans yields about 5 Hz -3 dB lower bass and about +6 dB in sensitvity. The thing about Magnestands and bass is really the quality of the sound improves so much it is really impressive. That said, if you want 20 Hz bass with Magnepans, modified or not, you will need a Rythmik subwoofer.

harri009 obviously doesn't get it.

[rclark]

worth every last cent and should be far more expensive considering the end result!

[rclark]

Ok, so the changes. The main, most important change is tossing that crappy mdf frame and going to a full hardwood frame with a nice heavy, bar reinforced, solid base, with floor spikes. Ok, the stock mdf frame is not ideal at all.

The mylar panel on the MMG is the equivalent of 72, 1 inch dome tweeters, and 8 8" woofers. That is a lot of surface area, requires a good amount of power to drive well, and all that vibration goes to the mdf. What is mdf known for? It makes excellent subwoofer enclosures because it heavily resists vibration. What does that mean? All that sound energy in the maggie panel hits the mdf frame and the mdf frame says "right back atcha baby", and this causes distortion.

The hardwood frame that Peter Gunn figured out allows the vibrations to pass away from the panel much more fully. This has huge benefits.

Next, the crap stock crossover is completely removed. You now get an external crossover mounted in it's own (BEAUTIFUL) housing, isolated completely from any vibration. In the case of the MMG, the crossover is now an adaptation of the MG12 crossover (PG found it to have excellent properties and I most definitely agree), but built of all high end parts. The capacitors in my crossover are Jupiter Beeswax. Not cheapo's. On top of that they are bypassed, which you won't get in stock, and they are bypassed with Mundorf Silver in Oils. The combination of the two caps is pure magic and it took PG some time to arrive at that combo.

Next, the pole piece is reversed. Apparently this is a boost in performance, especially in the bass.

Next, the rear half of the sock is removed. This allows the panel to breathe a little better, like removing a speaker grill.

A huge benefit here, the fuse and attenuator bar are completely removed from the signal path.

Wire and binding posts are now top end quality.

All this together yields a potent package that has been compared to speakers costing dozens of thousands of dollars.

With the Ncores, the sound was as though Zeus on Mt.Olympus threw a lightning bolt into my room and when the smoke cleared there was stereo. Purely holographic, liquid, engaging, precise to the atom, no box sound, all that mdf frame damage is gone, just a music hologram of incredible power and life. I wouldn't trade these for the world.

I am in a small room, so that helps, but with 400 watts of world class power on there, as far as bass, I was getting strong output to 40 hz and useful output to the 30's. Stock MMG's will not even come close to this level of output.

My MMG's playing music like dubstep with real zeal! MMG's aren't supposed to do that! And LOUD. With the Ncores I can turn them all the way up to their maximum volume and there is simply no degradation in the sound, it stays the same all the way up, and when you turn it way way down at night, the same properties are there, full, complete sound.

Accoustic guitar? The panels might as well be live guitar strings. All the energy of the plucked string mimicks the real nature and zingy pop of an real instrument in your room.

Upright bass? Jazz horns? Wow.

(BTW I put my Virtue back in.. let's just say I really, really miss the Ncores badly, and again, the Virtue is an excellent, high end amp).

The MMG stock, is great! But it's pretty beamy, with a tiny sweetspot, and has NO BASS. A sub helps a lot here. Stock, with a sub, propped up vertical, I was so happy with that sound I wouldn't have cared if I never changed anything.

But post mod, the sound is awesome from any position up front, it doesn't change at all. Yes, the Magnestand MMG is a jaw dropper, especially with great power on them, they really will leave your jaw on the floor.

I have a subwoofer on the way, should be here in a few days. An Epik Legend to fill out that 30hz and below range. If I like it, I'm going to add two more for ultra smooth low end. But as far as speakers, I can safely say that my needs are fully met.

I know for a fact I would have to pay... way more than I could probably ever afford to spend to get a box type speaker that sounds this good.

WORTH EVERY PENNY!


I forgot to mention one thing. All I was after was sonic improvements. The mod uses hardwood, and the benefit of that freedom is getting a unique, one off piece that you chose the woods for, and is basically heirloom quality. Sure dressed my room up! But I consider that merely the icing on the cake.

[harri009]

Aug 14, 2012 11:08:20 GMT -5 jackfish said:

harri009 obviously doesn't get it.

Lol or your just pissed I am right. If there were a mod for the XPA-1 and Dan said he tried it and did not feel it made a productive enough difference would you say we should pay $5000 instead of $1000 For the modded XPA-1. Magnepan have sold speakers for years because they are amazing not because some woodworker can mod them.

[garbulky]

rclark, what do you use for a DAC?

[rclark]

This is the kicker. All I'm using right now in an ERC-2. So the dac in the ERC-2. Speaks volumes for Emotiva source gear.

I know that I could achieve higher performance with more expensive gear, as the Ncores have near 130dB SN ratio and basically unmeasurable distortion up to a certain point, but in my system the Emotiva was gold.

I feel confident enough to try an XDA-2 and an XSP-1, and have completely balanced from cdp to the amps themselves.

[rclark]

Aug 14, 2012 13:00:23 GMT -5 harri009 said:

Aug 14, 2012 11:08:20 GMT -5 jackfish said:

harri009 obviously doesn't get it.

Lol or your just pissed I am right. If there were a mod for the XPA-1 and Dan said he tried it and did not feel it made a productive enough difference would you say we should pay $5000 instead of $1000 For the modded XPA-1. Magnepan have sold speakers for years because they are amazing not because some woodworker can mod them.

$5000 mod for xpa? It probably doesn't cost near as much. FYI on the podcast they said they JUST NOW got their two channel room properly treated. He might not have been able to hear a difference. Of course, he might not have done the mod at all! You think he wants his customers doing it ? Voiding warrantees and causing potential liability, etc. Not too many manufactures are pro modding.

And your speculations are wrong, because the Magnestand mod is incredible. I know, I had it done And there are many people who do the frame mod on their own, geek audiophiles, who run framed MMG's as their main speakers in systems full of high end source gear.

So.. imagine whatever you want, us people who have actually used and own the gear know what we're talking about.

Do you think that if I had spent $2400 modding some mmg's and they weren't spectacular in every way, that I'd be happy? No, I'd be ripping Peter Gunn a new one at every possible opportunity!

Think about it!