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Post by ocezam on Dec 30, 2012 17:32:22 GMT -5
Sorry - my dyslexia told me that there were 112 pages to the thread, not 12. I can read the 12. Thanks! OK - Thread read & digested. You're right; it answered my questions. Conclusion: XPA-1-L is not the amp for me. Why? 1. Power - My La Scalas are happy with <1 WPC. 10 watt output is earsplitting. I'll never use the 30 watts of Class A much less the Class A/B overhead. 2. Transistoritis - The XPA-1-L's power output transistors are voltage amplification devices. Tubes (current amplification devices) have proven to sound better with my speakers. 3. Cost - At ~ $1,400 per pair, there is some serious competition. The amps I currently have sound great, and the XPA-1-Ls would have to be truly exceptional to justify the additional expense. 4. Topology - The fact that the amps can automatically switch to Class A/B makes them indistinguishable (other that the amount of bias current) from any other Class A/B amp on the market. Yes, they're to be biased to offer the first 30 (or so) watts in Class A operation, but they're still basically Class A/B amps. If they were designed for true Class A operation only, I'd be more tempted. 5. History - I had an Emotiva XPA-2 (which runs for its first 10 watts or so in Class A). It did not sound dynamic with my high-efficiency speakers. Given that the XPA-1-L is yet another Emotiva Class A/B amplifier with Class A operation at its lower power outputs, why should I expect the new amp to sound different? 6. Curmudgeonliness - Self explanatory  Now having said all that, I'll probably still end up on the pre-order list...  I agree with most of your points. You don't need much power with your speakers, and tubes generally sound great with classic Klipsch speakers, but you knew all that before reading or posting. Doubtful Emotiva will ever produce an amp you'll like better than what you're running now with your current speakers. Only point where I think you're wrong is on the XPA-2 producing 10 watts class A. Emotiva hasn't, as far as I know, released official specs for class A output on any of their amps. There was a post where some one stated that Lonnie said the XPA-1 was 10 watts class A and the XPA-2 "about a watt" class A. This thread also has some differing posts concerning pricing. At $1400 a pair I'll likely just keep my XPA-2. But wasn't there also some speculation that a pair might go for $1000 or so? At that level, I may give them a whirl. |
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Post by Dark Ranger on Dec 30, 2012 18:24:35 GMT -5
OK - Thread read & digested. You're right; it answered my questions. Conclusion: XPA-1-L is not the amp for me. *REASONS* Now having said all that, I'll probably still end up on the pre-order list... OK, I'm dumbfounded with your paradox here.  You offer six reasons why the XPA-1L isn't for you, and then basically say you're going to order the amplifier anyway. To me, that sounds like you're setting yourself up for a disappointment. Have you been drinking tonight?   |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2013 15:27:34 GMT -5
Hey Dan or Lonnie, how about just a smidgen of info on this amp ? I've been really keeping a close eye for this product. Thanks  |
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Post by Dan Laufman on Jan 2, 2013 17:42:39 GMT -5
It's in final development. Needs CE and FCC, and then off to the production line!!
Can't give you an exact date, because if I do and we miss it... Well you know, I'll get yelled at by everyone.
It's very nearly done; how's that?
Cheers,
Big Dan
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2013 18:00:04 GMT -5
That's great, thanks. Looking forward to it.
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Post by Dark Ranger on Jan 2, 2013 18:11:36 GMT -5
Great news! ;D Thanks for the update, Dan. It is much appreciated. If the initial excitement is anything to go by, you'll have another slam-dunk winning product! Can't give you an exact date, because if I do and we miss it... Well you know, I'll get yelled at by everyone. What? Never! I've NEVER heard of this travesty! Are you sure you're not making it up?! ;D Have a great evening! |
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Post by ocezam on Jan 2, 2013 18:15:14 GMT -5
It's in final development. Needs CE and FCC, and then off to the production line!! Can't give you an exact date, because if I do and we miss it... Well you know, I'll get yelled at by everyone. It's very nearly done; how's that? Cheers, Big Dan OK. So assuming it is relatively affordable, would I see a SQ improvement over my XPA-2? I'd be giving up some overall headroom with a 100w drop in power to my 4 ohm speakers. I listen to mostly mellow jazz and rarely get near clipping on the XPA-2. A better SQ at lower volume interests me. Guess I'll just have to wait for some reviews. ... |
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Post by Boomzilla on Jan 2, 2013 19:14:13 GMT -5
OK, I'm dumbfounded with your paradox here. You offer six reasons why the XPA-1L isn't for you, and then basically say you're going to order the amplifier anyway...Have you been drinking tonight? I think logically, but don't always act that way. ;D |
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Post by Boomzilla on Jan 2, 2013 19:18:51 GMT -5
It's very nearly done; how's that? Thanks, Dan - I can live with that and promise never to yell at you again! Cordially - Boomzilla |
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Post by Jim on Jan 3, 2013 22:32:13 GMT -5
It's in final development. Needs CE and FCC, and then off to the production line!! Can't give you an exact date, because if I do and we miss it... Well you know, I'll get yelled at by everyone. It's very nearly done; how's that? Cheers, Big Dan So we can yell at CE and FCC in the meantime??? (Just kidding!!!!) Cool to hear that it's still in the pipeline. |
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klinemj
Emo VIPs 
Official Emofest Scribe
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Post by klinemj on Jan 3, 2013 22:45:25 GMT -5
Dan - thanks for the candid update. I have been hoping that all the grief you have gotten for trying to be forthcoming does not totally shut off communications on new products - and this type of hint/news is evidence we'll continue to get at least some insights.
So thanks for that.
And to anyone who starts any other "let's go to the stoning" threads or makes similar comments...please...for crying out loud...hold back. They are really doing their best!
Mark
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Post by Jim on Jan 4, 2013 7:25:17 GMT -5
Dan - thanks for the candid update. I have been hoping that all the grief you have gotten for trying to be forthcoming does not totally shut off communications on new products - and this type of hint/news is evidence we'll continue to get at least some insights. So thanks for that. And to anyone who starts any other "let's go to the stoning" threads or makes similar comments...please...for crying out loud...hold back. They are really doing their best! Mark Completely agree with your comments. I appreciate Dan taking the time to comment about the future of products, despite some of the other threads. I didn't mean to imply that the other threads were funny in any way. I'm just excited that it's still in development. I think that it has potential to open some new doors for hard core Class A people. |
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Post by jeffcullen on Jan 5, 2013 3:11:44 GMT -5
If I can get a clear answer that these things will be happy driving a pair of Thiel CS3.6s which are barely more than 2 ohms throughout most of the frequency, I'm buying a pair! I just don't have the space for a pair of XPA-1s...
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Post by garbulky on Jan 5, 2013 7:28:33 GMT -5
Some emo amps can handle 2 ohms but not necessarily with stellar distortion figures (read: nobody knows the distortion figures here not that they distort) . Emo amps have not been rated officially for 2 ohms.
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Post by Jim on Jan 5, 2013 8:20:10 GMT -5
Some emo amps can handle 2 ohms but not necessarily with stellar distortion figures (read: nobody knows the distortion figures here not that they distort) . Emo amps have not been rated officially for 2 ohms. I wonder how you'd determine which amps behave the best at 2 ohms? My wild guess would be higher powered ones like the XPA-1 and XPR-2? I imagine that the XPA-1L will handle it nicely unless you're really pushing it... But who knows without actually testing it. I had no idea that some (all??) Thiels were 2 ohms. That's nuts! |
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Post by sharkman on Jan 5, 2013 11:25:48 GMT -5
If I can get a clear answer that these things will be happy driving a pair of Thiel CS3.6s which are barely more than 2 ohms throughout most of the frequency, I'm buying a pair! I just don't have the space for a pair of XPA-1s... In this case it's nice that Emotiva has the 30 day trial, because if these amps don't work out you can simply return them. I would be curious to find out how they do, 2 ohms is not easy for an amp, and these XPA-1-L's apparently will run hot and switch out of class A to cool down if needed. From what has been said, I'd expect them released by maybe April. |
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Post by roadrunner on Jan 5, 2013 14:23:21 GMT -5
Why not contact Lonnie or one of the Tech Support personnel and ask them which of their amps would be able to drive the specific model of speakers with extremely low impedance. I know that Lonnie has previously posted that Emotiva has power amps that can drive 2 Ohm loads. I do not remember specifically which amp models were being referred to. He said that they don't advertise them as being 2 Ohm compatible but they would have no problems. I suspect that all of the XPA and XPR Series amps are capable, but why not confirm it ahead of time.
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Post by garbulky on Jan 5, 2013 14:29:51 GMT -5
Boomzilla had thiel 3.6 I believe that he ran with good results with an xpa-2.
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Post by jeffcullen on Jan 5, 2013 15:13:40 GMT -5
Thanks for the replies, guys! Thiel rates the CS3.6s at 4 ohms nominal, but dig this impedance curve!  I actually did contact Emotiva about a month ago and they said the XPA-2 would be fine but recommended a pair of XPA-1s for the sound quality improvements thanks to the differential topology and monoblock configuration. I noticed this thread a bit later and asked about the XPA-1Ls and got a "we don't know" sort of response. Fair enough as the product isn't out yet... I am certainly not looking for "stadium" volumes -- back in the pre-recession glory days, a Pass Labs X250.5 was more than enough power for me, which is similarly rated at 500 watts per channel into 4 ohms... Further, the X250.5 has a similar "switching-out-of-Class-A" point also at 30 watts into 8 ohms. This proved quite nice for late-night low-volume sessions. I suspect the XPA-1's 10 watts into 8 ohms of Class A operation would prove inadequate for this particular purpose... Finally, the form factor of the XPA-1Ls is really appealing as they'll fit in my rack, rather than living somewhere on the floor on stands... Presently, I'm running my speakers with a de-fanned Crown MT-1000 pro amp (rated at "just" 400WPC into 4 ohms, but is totally 1 ohm stable), which I have to say, handily trounced a Bryston 4B ST... but it is certainly not the last word in refinement... As for the 30 day trial -- indeed, but living up in Canada, shipping these things back and forth ain't cheap... |
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Post by Boomzilla on Jan 5, 2013 15:19:47 GMT -5
If I can get a clear answer that these things will be happy driving a pair of Thiel CS3.6s which are barely more than 2 ohms throughout most of the frequency, I'm buying a pair! I just don't have the space for a pair of XPA-1s... I had CS3.6s and they were absolutely stellar with an XPA-2. |
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