RMC-1

[Topend]

Feb 8, 2014 17:55:02 GMT -5 flamingeye said:

$5,000 for a per/pro that's beyond what I can afford for one peace of gear now I my be able to squeeze $3,000 out for one but that's my limit , but anyway I would like to see at lest a 9.2 out of the RMC-1

Agreed. The RMC-1 would have to be < $3000 and I would also have to use my 40% card before I could buy one.

Dave.

[Erwin.BE]

Feb 8, 2014 17:55:02 GMT -5 flamingeye said:

$5,000 for a per/pro that's beyond what I can afford for one peace of gear now I my be able to squeeze $3,000 out for one but that's my limit , but anyway I would like to see at lest a 9.2 out of the RMC-1

The projected $2.5/3K - summer 2013 - for the RMC-1 was at the time when the XMC-1 was going to be $1,500. Since the latter has been priced at $1,999, the RMC-1 would also go up to 3,300 to 4,000 I estimate. And then I added $1K for Auro-3D 11.1... They could make it optional, like the Datasat LS10.

[Lsc]

Feb 8, 2014 18:20:59 GMT -5 Erwin.BE said:

Feb 8, 2014 17:55:02 GMT -5 flamingeye said:

$5,000 for a per/pro that's beyond what I can afford for one peace of gear now I my be able to squeeze $3,000 out for one but that's my limit , but anyway I would like to see at lest a 9.2 out of the RMC-1

The projected $2.5/3K - summer 2013 - for the RMC-1 was at the time when the XMC-1 was going to be $1,500. Since the latter has been priced at $1,999, the RMC-1 would also go up to 3,300 to 4,000 I estimate. And then I added $1K for Auro-3D 11.1... They could make it optional, like the Datasat LS10.

They could but then you won't see the RMC-1 until 2018.

I think you will see a supercharged xmc-1, but nothing with any additional stuff like that. Maybe in a future upgrade.

Also, don't hold your breath about upgrades. The chief engineer Ray also was at Theta. Theta made great products but their speed of upgrades are actually slower than Emotiva's product to market. It's actually kind of funny how this came full circle.

I still have my buddy's Theta Casanova that he paid $4,500 in 1999 thinking it was going to be his last pre-pro due to the "upgradeable" nature. There were zero upgrades before the product was scrapped. .

Now he is waiting for the RMC-1...but he has told me repeatedly, don't believe in the upgrades, what you buy...that's what you are getting. I agree with him.

I know you said you planned on getting the xmc-1 and that's a good move.

[Gary Cook]

I'm having trouble with the RMC-1 concept as a whole. The way I see it the XMC-1 should;
1. Have as good, if not better, DAC implementation and performance as a DC-1
2. Have as good, if not better, stereo pre amp performance as an XSP-1
3. Have superior processing capability (inc equalisation) when compared to a UMC-200
4. Make an Oppo 105 an unnecessary expense, with an Oppo 103 doing the job with the XMC-1 better than the 105 with any other pre/pro.

If the XMC-1 doesn't achieve the above then I personally won't see it as justifying its price point and/or meeting its stated design brief. If it does then i'm not sure where Emotiva can then hang their hat on superior sound performance for an RMC-1 After all I see an RMC-1 as needing to step up the sound quality, no amount of bling would justify an RMC-1, primarily it has to sound better. I apologise in advance, but pretty much every suggestion that I have seen for an RMC-1 is just "bling" to me.

For a real RMC-1 I would have to see demonstrably;
a. Better DAC than an XMC-1
b. Better stereo pre amp than an XSP-1
c. Superior audio processing to an XMC-1
d. Make anything that Oppo produces in the 105/125/145 range superfluous.

To me that means Emotiva would need either the products themselves or the engineering completed for the products such as an RSP-1 and an RDA-1. Because I just don't see the volume of sales of an RMC-1 justifying the development costs unless they can be shared with the other "reference" series products it supplements/complements.


Cheers
Gary

[Lsc]

You like me are too practical. High-end was built on people paying 1000% more for 10% improvements.

So, the RMC-1 being fully balanced on all channels and better build and XPR front display at the least, is good enough for those that want the best.

Movies should sound better...center and surrounds are all balanced...some of these guys have XPR-1 x 3 or more...so it'll be worth it, for them.

[Gary Cook]

Feb 9, 2014 0:03:04 GMT -5 Lsc said:

You like me are too practical. High-end was built on people paying 1000% more for 10% improvements.
So, the RMC-1 being fully balanced on all channels and better build and XPR front display at the least, is good enough for those that want the best.
Movies should sound better...center and surrounds are all balanced...some of these guys have XPR-1 x 3 or more...so it'll be worth it, for them.

I'm sure the prototype XMC-1's have had all 9.2 balanced outputs, I know the UMC-500 prototype most certainly had all balanced outputs, as I took particular interest. I'd be stunned if the XMC-1 didn't have all of its channels balanced output.

However balanced inputs maybe another question, they would take up a lot of real estate. For example, if it were me looking at an XMC-1 I'd like to have some balanced inputs to plug my ERC-1 into. Or maybe the idea is to use the DAC in the XMC-1 so use a digital connection.

As for "paying 1000% more for 10% improvements" that really isn't Emotiva's style, not that I have seen anyway.

Cheers
Gary

[cwt]

Feb 9, 2014 0:03:04 GMT -5 Lsc said:

You like me are too practical. High-end was built on people paying 1000% more for 10% improvements.

So, the RMC-1 being fully balanced on all channels and better build and XPR front display at the least, is good enough for those that want the best.

Movies should sound better...center and surrounds are all balanced...some of these guys have XPR-1 x 3 or more...so it'll be worth it, for them.

Yes ; Ime someone that would pay more for dolby volume BUT if the xmc1 gets it ..

As has been said the rmc1 being based on the xmc1 will negate a lot of the R&D needed for a ground up top of the line . The question is how many will now be happy with the xmc1's hdmi2.0 and 2nd output and rationalise the lack of channels for the new codecs . I remember when thx ultra decoders 1st came out and the markups paid that shrank over time [ $1000 for a pl2x and thx ultra2 upgrade for my integra at the time ] Can wait for licensing fees to come down as they inevitably will

The rmc1 has more processing power that could mean better filter calculations for its dirac iirc someone said ? If its a factor with the filters being constructed elsewhere..

[garbulky]

I'd just be happy if it sounded better... I don't really see the point of extra channels.

[Lsc]

That's right. I would also think it'll come with the full version of Dirac. 96kHz or whatever that version is going to be called.

I'm not talking about balanced connectors Garycook...I'm talking about full differential DACs on all channels.

Emotiva is going high end so the bang for buck factor is going to go down a bit...but that's ok. It's expected.

Even now...the XPR-5 is double the power but the price is > than double. Law of diminishing returns is unavoidable...at least they are reasonable. I don't mind.

I'm a music guy anyway so the XMC-1 should be enough...plus I don't have the 40% off card.

[AudioHTIT]

Feb 8, 2014 23:39:59 GMT -5 Gary Cook said:

I'm having trouble with the RMC-1 concept as a whole. The way I see it the XMC-1 should;
1. Have as good, if not better, DAC implementation and performance as a DC-1
2. Have as good, if not better, stereo pre amp performance as an XSP-1
3. Have superior processing capability (inc equalisation) when compared to a UMC-200
4. Make an Oppo 105 an unnecessary expense, with an Oppo 103 doing the job with the XMC-1 better than the 105 with any other pre/pro.

If the XMC-1 doesn't achieve the above then I personally won't see it as justifying its price point and/or meeting its stated design brief. If it does then i'm not sure where Emotiva can then hang their hat on superior sound performance for an RMC-1 After all I see an RMC-1 as needing to step up the sound quality, no amount of bling would justify an RMC-1, primarily it has to sound better. I apologise in advance, but pretty much every suggestion that I have seen for an RMC-1 is just "bling" to me.

For a real RMC-1 I would have to see demonstrably;
a. Better DAC than an XMC-1
b. Better stereo pre amp than an XSP-1
c. Superior audio processing to an XMC-1
d. Make anything that Oppo produces in the 105/125/145 range superfluous.

To me that means Emotiva would need either the products themselves or the engineering completed for the products such as an RSP-1 and an RDA-1. Because I just don't see the volume of sales of an RMC-1 justifying the development costs unless they can be shared with the other "reference" series products it supplements/complements.

Cheers
Gary

I would disagree with your premise, though not that what you say isn't desirable. To expect the DAC to be as good or better than Emo's best separate DAC or for the analog performance to be as good or better than the XSP-1 is unrealistic. Improved processing over the UMC-200? Yes, we should expect that, we are buying their (current) best processor. Combing functions into a single unit has to bring compromises. That said I do think it is possible that for many of us the XMC-1 may meet all of our analog and digital needs in a single unit. I also think some will retain their dedicated DACs and 2C separates.

I don't think the RMC-1 needs to be 'better' in all these individual areas as well, but rather expand on the base platform, as others said possibly fully balanced on all channels (and more of them). Maybe additional Dirac features or RC options. It does need to be more than cosmetic, but with a higher price point come fewer compromises.

[Porscheguy]

I spoke to Dan about it and while he didn't give a cost, he said it would be "significantly" more than the XMC-1.

Not sure what that means..

[AudioHTIT]

Feb 9, 2014 11:25:51 GMT -5 Porscheguy said:

I spoke to Dan about it and while he didn't give a cost, he said it would be "significantly" more than the XMC-1.

Not sure what that means..

While amps and processors are certainly different, here are some possibilities on the increase between the X and R series:
XPA/XPR-1 $1099.00 $1699.00 55%
XPA/XPR-2 $899.00 $1799.00 100%
XPA/XPR-5 $999.00 $2299.00 130%

[Porscheguy]

I'm thinking its going to be 4K-5K

[Deleted]

The RMC-1 should have at least 3 fully independant sub outputs......minimum!!!! Will the 40% off card work for the RMC-1? or just the XMC-1?...

[AudioHTIT]

Feb 9, 2014 17:12:27 GMT -5 @n8dogg said:

The RMC-1 should have at least 3 fully independant sub outputs......minimum!!!! Will the 40% off card work for the RMC-1? or just the XMC-1?...

It works with any of the newer processors, UMC-200, XMC-1, RMC-1 ...

[Gary Cook]

Only my opinion of course, but this is how I see the XMC-1 price being justified;
DC-1 $499.00
XSP-1 $999.00
UMC-200 $599.00

Total $2,097.00

If the XMC-1 doesn't do a better job than the above separates then I personally would find it hard to justify buying one.

Using the same justification methodology for an RMC-1 I find it hard to even justify it's existence until there is the technology for an RDA-1 and an RSP-1. But that's just my way of looking at it.


Cheers
Gary

[Deleted]

Feb 9, 2014 17:26:00 GMT -5 AudioHTIT said:

Feb 9, 2014 17:12:27 GMT -5 @n8dogg said:

The RMC-1 should have at least 3 fully independant sub outputs......minimum!!!! Will the 40% off card work for the RMC-1? or just the XMC-1?...

It works with any of the newer processors, UMC-200, XMC-1, RMC-1 ...

Ok thanks, looks like I will have to pick up a card then.

[jerrin]

The RMC will have improved sound quality over the XMC1. It will also have extra processing power to handle a full Dirac implementation (96K).

Expect $3500-4500. It certainty makes the 40% cards much more valuable.




Erwin, I too would pay extra for the Auro-3D. I did some reading and I'm impressed with the approach. Pretty clever.

[hifiaudio2]

Auro 3d sounds nice, but I have no idea how I could retrofit even more speakers into my theater. I guess I could find a way to get a shallow overhead height speaker for their voice of god channel, but not sure about the others.

[Lsc]

Adding more speakers is a tough sell because of the cost associated with it to be done right.