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Post by creimes on Nov 17, 2012 21:29:27 GMT -5
It's hard when you have a budget to stick with when it comes to the electrical wiring and such, my panel is only so big, it still has 4 open slots but I have an electric furnace and the breakers for intrude into the space where those 4 remaining empty slots are, my 2 15 amp circuits should be plenty good for my gear. Here is a completed pic....only thing left to do is remove the 2 plugs from the front side of the wall and patch up the drywall from it and the horrible job someone did installing the coax and phone jacks.  |
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Post by geebo on Nov 18, 2012 10:53:15 GMT -5
I only paid $12.85 for my "Orange" 20A Hospital Grade Outlet from a local hardware store. I was shocked to hear such high prices by some of the stores you guys shopped at. Hey Ronnie, While I was the Home Depot today I was again looking through the electrical department and found they carried the professional/hospital grade/extra heavy duty industrial grade 20a outlets for $9.98. They aren't right next to the regular 20a outlets but in the same section so anyone looking for these just look for the Orange outlet. The commercial 20a outlets I was using were doing the job but I just had to buy two of these for this price. They'll look impressive to a potential buyer when/if I go to sell my home in the future. ;D I know the picture below doesn't have the "Green Dot" that signifies "hospital grade" but the model listed that I bought at Home Depot does indeed have the "Green Dot" & "Green Triangle"(which signifies an isolated ground).  www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-100356987/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=leviton+20amp&storeId=10051#.UIMVeoagGSoDoesn't an isolated ground receptacle require an insulated ground ground wire all the way back to your panel? I thought 12/2 would not be appropriate for an IG receptacle. |
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Post by geebo on Nov 18, 2012 12:39:57 GMT -5
I think the red wire in the 12/3 is to be used for the isolated ground with one of those receptacles. The bare wire inside the sheathing is not considered insulated. It may be okay to tie the ground terminal of the IG receptacle to the metal box holding the receptacle. I'm not sure about this LC, but I would want to be before I put one of these in my wall to make sure the connection is to code.
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Post by geebo on Nov 18, 2012 12:44:55 GMT -5
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Nov 18, 2012 12:50:37 GMT -5
I think the red wire in the 12/3 is to be used for the isolated ground with one of those receptacles. The bare wire inside the sheathing is not considered insulated. It may be okay to tie the ground terminal of the IG receptacle to the metal box holding the receptacle. I'm not sure about this LC, but I would want to be before I put one of these in my wall to make sure the connection is to code. What type of receptacle would be ideal for this situation? I definitely want to be to code. |
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Post by geebo on Nov 18, 2012 12:57:58 GMT -5
I think the red wire in the 12/3 is to be used for the isolated ground with one of those receptacles. The bare wire inside the sheathing is not considered insulated. It may be okay to tie the ground terminal of the IG receptacle to the metal box holding the receptacle. I'm not sure about this LC, but I would want to be before I put one of these in my wall to make sure the connection is to code. What type of receptacle would be ideal for this situation? I definitely want to be to code. Thats just it. I'm not sure. I was posing the question because I wasn't sure that you can connect one properly with 12/2 wire. I checked into connecting an IG receptacle previously but just got confused. Maybe some electrician types here might be able to answer. |
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Nov 18, 2012 13:02:23 GMT -5
What type of receptacle would be ideal for this situation? I definitely want to be to code. Thats just it. I'm not sure. I was posing the question because I wasn't sure that you can connect one properly with 12/2 wire. I checked into connecting an IG receptacle previously but just got confused. Maybe some electrician types here might be able to answer. Gotcha, and a good question. I'm trusting that my licensed electrician knew the local codes, as I only replaced the Commercial grade receptacle with the exact same type in the Professional grade. If necessary I kept the original receptacle just in-case I ever needed it for a back-up or had to go back to it for whatever reason. |
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Post by LCSeminole on Nov 18, 2012 13:03:46 GMT -5
I know "solardadd" is a licensed electrician Lounge member so maybe he can enlighten us on this.
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Post by geebo on Nov 18, 2012 13:04:31 GMT -5
Thats just it. I'm not sure. I was posing the question because I wasn't sure that you can connect one properly with 12/2 wire. I checked into connecting an IG receptacle previously but just got confused. Maybe some electrician types here might be able to answer. Gotcha, and a good question. I'm trusting that my licensed electrician knew the local codes, as I only replaced the Commercial grade receptacle with the exact same type in the Professional grade. If necessary I kept the original receptacle just in-case I ever needed it for a back-up or had to go back to it for whatever reason. Oh, I'm quite sure he did. But I thought you had bought some isolated ground receptacles to replace your conventional ones. Maybe I misunderstood. |
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Post by LCSeminole on Nov 18, 2012 13:15:45 GMT -5
I did buy the one Professional (hospital) grade to replace the Commercial grade. Hopefully I bought the right type, as I'm now beginning to doubt my choice!  I'm now going to go to Home Depot, while I'm out, just to double check, and if I'm still not sure I'll give the electrician a call this week to make sure. Never hurts to double check with the expert.  |
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Post by geebo on Nov 18, 2012 13:17:42 GMT -5
I did buy the one Professional (hospital) grade to replace the Commercial grade. Hopefully I bought the right type, as I'm now beginning to doubt my choice! I'm now going to go to Home Depot, while I'm out, just to double check, and if I'm still not sure I'll give the electrician a call this week to make sure. Never hurts to double check with the expert. Exactly. And I'll be interested in your findings. |
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Post by slammed on Nov 18, 2012 13:26:08 GMT -5
To do the isolated ground with Romex you do it the way geebos link shows. Mine are all in conduit so the actual conduit works as the bare copper wire and I have an insulated green wire going direct to the outlet.
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hemster
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Post by hemster on Nov 18, 2012 13:33:48 GMT -5
I did buy the one Professional (hospital) grade to replace the Commercial grade. Hopefully I bought the right type, as I'm now beginning to doubt my choice! I'm now going to go to Home Depot, while I'm out, just to double check, and if I'm still not sure I'll give the electrician a call this week to make sure. Never hurts to double check with the expert. I agree absolutely. One doesn't want to blindly do DIY but make sure the experts are accredited. This pic shows a power department worker make adjustments to electrical power lines. Hope he remembered to switch off the power first!  |
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Post by solarrdadd on Nov 18, 2012 14:09:38 GMT -5
the difference between the standard receptacle ground and the isolated ground receptacle is that on the standard, the yolk of the receptacle (the metal banding that holds the body together and is part of the ears and also where you screw the receptacle into the box with and the place where you screw the cover onto the receptacle) that is bonded to the ground screw so that when you connect the grounding conductor to it there is continuity to the everything including the metal box if one is used.
the isolated ground, the grounding screw terminal is "isolated" from the yolk of the receptacle and the cover screw this is mostly to prevent as much noise as possible from being generated into the ground conductor and into sensitive electronic equipment that rely on a ground plane inside said equipment that use a 3 prong connection.
if you were doing a "truthful" isolated ground system you would have 2 physical grounds one would be "bonded" to the metal box (if used) *if there is no metal boxes in the circuit you would only need one ground* that ground can be bare or insulated and if insulated should be green or so marked; that ground is then called your mechanical ground. then the ground that connects to your isolated ground terminal on the receptacle would be insulated green with yellow strips or markings to identify it as an "isolated ground" the other end of that ground should go all the way back to the panel. if in a home it should land on the ground or ground/neutral terminal block.
if commercial and done properly it should land in a true isolated ground panel that would have insulated ground blocks for isolated ground conductors that would then have a single large (sized to NEC) that would go back to the service entrance and be bonded at that point. the idea is to ensure that again, noise will travel out away from the circuits and not towards them. also some isolated ground panels have special networks of sensors in them to also let you know when you have excessive ground noise in the system.
the other best way in your home to take advantage of the isolated ground receptacle is to make dedicated runs for each circuit landing only at the receptacle end and connecting to nothing in between. this keeps your grounds nice and clean with no splices. this is also true for non-isolated ground receptacles, run them in dedicated circuits and your in great shape. the truest dedicated circuit is 12/2 for 125v/20a because this way, your not sharing a neutral with the other phase (hot) conductor which may say have a blender, a dimmer, electronic ballast or other non linear load on it. 12/3 is fine if both of your circuits are going to be for the same use, i.e. your a/v gear in one central location and you want to run 2 circuits to balance the load or have more gear then one circuit can safely handle, then it's fine.
hope this helped
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Post by geebo on Nov 18, 2012 14:16:45 GMT -5
Yeah, well, sorta. If you have an IG receptacle and house wiring with metal boxes, can you just connect the ground lug of the IG receptacle to the metal box and still be safe and within code?
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Post by solarrdadd on Nov 18, 2012 14:28:42 GMT -5
Yeah, well, sorta. If you have an IG receptacle and house wiring with metal boxes, can you just connect the ground lug of the IG receptacle to the metal box and still be safe and within code? no because you have allowed the metal box to go unbonded/ungrounded. the danger there is if the hot conductor inside the box has damaged insulation and is touching the metal box it will not cause a fault and trip the breaker because the box is electrically "floating" and will simply sit there energized with 120v of power. the obvious danger there is if you come in contact with a metal cover on the box (if one is used) and another grounded surface you can get shocked or electrocuted this is called a difference of potential. the reason you need the metal box to be bonded is to create equipotential conditions in the system so you don't get shocked or limit a shock condition. also to quickly allow a clean path for quick activation of over current protective devices OCPD i.e., circuit breakers & fuses. the code prohibits us from having conditions where metal bodies or raceways of an electrical system can become and stay without activating OCPD's intentionally or otherwise. we gotta keep people & property electrically as safe as possible. how's that?  |
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Post by sorbe on Nov 18, 2012 14:32:44 GMT -5
Long wires are basically antennas, they pick up electromagnetic interference of all sorts, except if they are inside shielded cables. If you can shield your power & ground runs you can minimize EMI. Another very good way to do an isolated ground with a normal 12/2(black,white,green for 1 * 20a) or 12/3(black,red,white,green for 2 * 20a) romex cable is to use metal conduit. The metal conduit is used as the normal ground and the green write (not bare) is used as the isolated "equipment" ground within the conduit, that way the entire wire run is fully shielded from EMI sources. This provides your A/V equipment with the cleanest possible power. Isolated Ground Receptacle using Conduit
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Post by geebo on Nov 18, 2012 14:38:24 GMT -5
Yeah, well, sorta. If you have an IG receptacle and house wiring with metal boxes, can you just connect the ground lug of the IG receptacle to the metal box and still be safe and within code? no because you have allowed the metal box to go unbonded/ungrounded. the danger there is if the hot conductor inside the box has damaged insulation and is touching the metal box it will not cause a fault and trip the breaker because the box is electrically "floating" and will simply sit there energized with 120v of power. the obvious danger there is if you come in contact with a metal cover on the box (if one is used) and another grounded surface you can get shocked or electrocuted this is called a difference of potential. the reason you need the metal box to be bonded is to create equipotential conditions in the system so you don't get shocked or limit a shock condition. also to quickly allow a clean path for quick activation of over current protective devices OCPD i.e., circuit breakers & fuses. the code prohibits us from having conditions where metal bodies or raceways of an electrical system can become and stay without activating OCPD's intentionally or otherwise. we gotta keep people & property electrically as safe as possible. how's that? Great! Now, one more question if that's okay. I just checked and my house has plastic boxes with a white, black, and bare wire going to the receptacle. Could a IG receptacle be used in this case and be okay? The bare wire is connected directly to the green lug on my current receptacle. Thanks. |
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Nov 18, 2012 14:58:28 GMT -5
no because you have allowed the metal box to go unbonded/ungrounded. the danger there is if the hot conductor inside the box has damaged insulation and is touching the metal box it will not cause a fault and trip the breaker because the box is electrically "floating" and will simply sit there energized with 120v of power. the obvious danger there is if you come in contact with a metal cover on the box (if one is used) and another grounded surface you can get shocked or electrocuted this is called a difference of potential. the reason you need the metal box to be bonded is to create equipotential conditions in the system so you don't get shocked or limit a shock condition. also to quickly allow a clean path for quick activation of over current protective devices OCPD i.e., circuit breakers & fuses. the code prohibits us from having conditions where metal bodies or raceways of an electrical system can become and stay without activating OCPD's intentionally or otherwise. we gotta keep people & property electrically as safe as possible. how's that? Great! Now, one more question if that's okay. I just checked and my house has plastic boxes with a white, black, and bare wire going to the receptacle. Could a IG receptacle be used in this case and be okay? The bare wire is connected directly to the green lug on my current receptacle. Thanks. This is my situation as well, and if I'm not mistaken it's what he described above as being, "the truest dedicated circuit is 12/2 for 125v/20a because this way, your not sharing a neutral with the other phase (hot) conductor which may say have a blender, a dimmer, electronic ballast or other non linear load on it." I would however like to have "solardadd"'s verification on this. |
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I'm now going to go to Home Depot, while I'm out, just to double check, and if I'm still not sure I'll give the electrician a call this week to make sure. Never hurts to double check with the expert. 
