DC-1

[garbulky]

Feb 13, 2014 14:35:47 GMT -5 latebloomer said:

I don't record any live instruments. And it is not for professional use, but I would still like to get the best SQ I can afford. For now I'm tracking using my HP, which aren't fancy at all, but serve they purpose nonetheless. Originally I just wanted to get active monitors and connect RME card directly to monitors as it does offer various output options via breakout cables. However, once I found out that it is not recommended to go that route, I started looking at DACs. As much as I would like to be able to get a professional grade DAC, shelling out couple grand for it isn't really an option...at least at this point in time.  DC-1 really looks appealing as it seem to offer great value for the price. Was also considering Benchmark DAC1, but it cost twice as much. After someone in this thread said that to him DC-1 sounded even better than Benchmark DAC that made me even more tempted to check out just how good DC-1 really is. 

So with that said, I want to use DC-1 as a DAC. It will be used for tracking and mixing. Do I really need a pre-amp if I'm going to connect DC-1 to active monitors?

[/quote]
Okay I got you.
Well to hear any kind of differences in DACs, there's a lot of things that need to go right first.
You need the right speakers (resolving)
the right room (IMPORTANT!) preferrably with acoustic panels
the right placement (just as important as your speakers IMO)
Functioning ears. (Not a golden ear or any such rubbish. Just simply functioning without major defects).

That's to hear differences.
To like a DAC it also takes a certain amount of preference and subjectivity.

If you don't have either of these, then I doubt a DAC would be useful at all. I had a variety of speakers before I arrived at mine and none of them would have been able to show an advantage in DAC's.
Another thing you should know is that according to double blind testing pretty much most DAC's on this market above a $150 should sound IDENTICAL due to inaudible distortion levels (below 0.5%), flat frequency response at 0 db and an SNR of around 70-80. Which really most DACs have. (I disagree on this point obviously).
So that's my disclaimer.

Having said that - the DC-1 is really good. I had it for a few weeks thanks to the kindness of a friend, and I miss it to this day!
For enjoyment of audio, I haven't heard a better DAC and I doubt there is one at $400 that can compete with everything the DC-1 has got. There well could be but I like to think the DC-1 is a very safe bet. I personally thought it was a bargain at its original $700 price.
As for the need for a pre-amp. With your current planned setup, I wouldn't spend the money. I think the DC-1 is all you would need electronic wise.
As for will you hear a difference. It is hard to say with a near field setup. With a near field setup you do lose a little something in translation and so it's hard to say.

[latebloomer]

Feb 13, 2014 15:05:52 GMT -5 garbulky said:

Feb 13, 2014 14:35:47 GMT -5 latebloomer said:

I don't record any live instruments. And it is not for professional use, but I would still like to get the best SQ I can afford. For now I'm tracking using my HP, which aren't fancy at all, but serve they purpose nonetheless. Originally I just wanted to get active monitors and connect RME card directly to monitors as it does offer various output options via breakout cables. However, once I found out that it is not recommended to go that route, I started looking at DACs. As much as I would like to be able to get a professional grade DAC, shelling out couple grand for it isn't really an option...at least at this point in time.  DC-1 really looks appealing as it seem to offer great value for the price. Was also considering Benchmark DAC1, but it cost twice as much. After someone in this thread said that to him DC-1 sounded even better than Benchmark DAC that made me even more tempted to check out just how good DC-1 really is. 

So with that said, I want to use DC-1 as a DAC. It will be used for tracking and mixing. Do I really need a pre-amp if I'm going to connect DC-1 to active monitors?

Okay I got you.
Well to hear any kind of differences in DACs, there's a lot of things that need to go right first.
You need the right speakers (resolving)
the right room (IMPORTANT!) preferrably with acoustic panels
the right placement (just as important as your speakers IMO)
Functioning ears. (Not a golden ear or any such rubbish. Just simply functioning without major defects).

That's to hear differences.
To like a DAC it also takes a certain amount of preference and subjectivity.

If you don't have either of these, then I doubt a DAC would be useful at all. I had a variety of speakers before I arrived at mine and none of them would have been able to show an advantage in DAC's.
Another thing you should know is that according to double blind testing pretty much most DAC's on this market above a $150 should sound IDENTICAL due to inaudible distortion levels (below 0.5%), flat frequency response at 0 db and an SNR of around 70-80. Which really most DACs have. (I disagree on this point obviously).
So that's my disclaimer.

Having said that - the DC-1 is really good. I had it for a few weeks thanks to the kindness of a friend, and I miss it to this day!
For enjoyment of audio, I haven't heard a better DAC and I doubt there is one at $400 that can compete with everything the DC-1 has got. There well could be but I like to think the DC-1 is a very safe bet. I personally thought it was a bargain at its original $700 price.
As for the need for a pre-amp. With your current planned setup, I wouldn't spend the money. I think the DC-1 is all you would need electronic wise.

[/quote]

Well, I will also use DC-1 as a HP amp, so this only adds to the list of pros. I understand that room treatment is an important factor which can't be undermined, so I will definitely be spending time and money to work on that as well. As far as monitors, I know I can't go cheap as it'll only limit the potential of all the other components. I seem to have a general idea of what I want my set up to be. Now it just comes down to saving enough money to get all the necessary components and hopefully get the ones that will work well together. Either way, I appreciate your time and response. Thanks.

p.s. It seems like I can't correctly quote your posts. Something's funky. Maybe I'm just too new to this forum and possibly doing something wrong. It is weird that my 'Preview' function doesn't work. 

[Lsc]

You do not need a pre-amp. The DC-1 looks sweet...too bad I won't be getting it.

[Brainsick]

Woohoooo, ordered a DC-1, cant beat $400, wounder how it compares to me XDA-2?.....HMMM

[Deleted]

you mean 499$ right/

[Brainsick]

No, got a factory renewed one, i wont pass on that deal.

[Deleted]

oooooh you dirty dog!!

[Brainsick]

Lol man, i spent way to much money, just got my Adam Audio F5's yesterday, they sound great.

[lsdeep]

i can only say, i bought the dc-1 after auditioning several other dac's (cheaper, same price range and way more expensive) on my system thx to friends. so far i am still more than happy with my choice. the fact, that it can replace a preamp (depending on your needs) often enough and serve as a nice hp amp is icing on the cake!
i would go as far as saying it is the best deal at this point in time you can get for $500.

cheers, L

[clearear]

I agree, it makes a wonderful preamp.

[jeffnyc]

Thanks for the input, sounds like I don't need to be too concerned...looking at AKG Q701 or Sennheiser HD600...

Feb 13, 2014 13:26:40 GMT -5 KeithL said:

Here's how it works:

Every headphone has a rated impedance and a rated efficiency.
Every headphone amplifier has performance limits - which are usually limits on the maximum current and voltage it can deliver.

The headphone amplifiers in the DC-1 operate on about +/- 12 volts, and can deliver quite a bit of current (several hundred milliamps).


This means that the DC-1 will work very well with all moderately or highly efficient low impedance headphones - which includes the majority of all headphones.
It will also work very well with high impedance HIGH EFFICIENCY headphones.
(Since the headphone amps on the DC-1 also have a very low output impedance, they will sound very good on anything they can drive, and their frequency response will remain flat and accurate with pretty well any headphone you plug into it.... some lesser headphone amps are very fussy, and sound quite different depending on the impedance of the headphones you use with them.)

The only limitations will be

1) high impedance headphones which are also relatively low in efficiency (for those you will need a headphone amplifier that delivers a lot of VOLTAGE); certain Beyerdynamic models fall into that category - although most are also high efficiency

2) Low impedance headphones that require massive amounts of power (certain models of planars, like HiFiMan 6's, can only be run by very high powered headphone amplifiers or even small "speaker amplifiers")

If you check the forums, you will see specific models that fall into these categories discussed as being very difficult to drive - and discussions about which few dedicated headphone amplifiers are able to drive them well. Another way of looking at it is that the headphone amps in the DC-1 are comparable to separate headphone amps in the $150 to $500 range.

Feb 9, 2014 21:58:32 GMT -5 jeffnyc said:

Beginner question: How do I know if the DC-1 can power certain headphones (what ohms etc.). Looking to upgrade my Sony MDR-V6s... Thanks.

[garbulky]

Feb 15, 2014 9:19:49 GMT -5 jeffnyc said:

Thanks for the input, sounds like I don't need to be too concerned...looking at AKG Q701 or Sennheiser HD600...

Feb 13, 2014 13:26:40 GMT -5 KeithL said:

Here's how it works:

Every headphone has a rated impedance and a rated efficiency.
Every headphone amplifier has performance limits - which are usually limits on the maximum current and voltage it can deliver.

The headphone amplifiers in the DC-1 operate on about +/- 12 volts, and can deliver quite a bit of current (several hundred milliamps).


This means that the DC-1 will work very well with all moderately or highly efficient low impedance headphones - which includes the majority of all headphones.
It will also work very well with high impedance HIGH EFFICIENCY headphones.
(Since the headphone amps on the DC-1 also have a very low output impedance, they will sound very good on anything they can drive, and their frequency response will remain flat and accurate with pretty well any headphone you plug into it.... some lesser headphone amps are very fussy, and sound quite different depending on the impedance of the headphones you use with them.)

The only limitations will be

1) high impedance headphones which are also relatively low in efficiency (for those you will need a headphone amplifier that delivers a lot of VOLTAGE); certain Beyerdynamic models fall into that category - although most are also high efficiency

2) Low impedance headphones that require massive amounts of power (certain models of planars, like HiFiMan 6's, can only be run by very high powered headphone amplifiers or even small "speaker amplifiers")

If you check the forums, you will see specific models that fall into these categories discussed as being very difficult to drive - and discussions about which few dedicated headphone amplifiers are able to drive them well. Another way of looking at it is that the headphone amps in the DC-1 are comparable to separate headphone amps in the $150 to $500 range.

I'm not sure if I already told you this. I have the HD600 and it ran fine. It sounds about as good as the xenos 3ha stand alone headphone amp that cost approx 140. In some cases it was a bit clearer but I wouldn't go so far to say it was better but about the same. It also has the nice thing that it has two separate headphone amps in it. Plus the compact box really increases the value when you factor all of it in.
This isn't the end all of headphone amps but just so you know you won't have any issues with it even on a hard to drive headphones like the hd600. For instance it's headphone output is audibly better than the headphone amps on the XDA-2, my asus xonar essence st, the behringer UCA 202 and the Emotiva USP-1 all of which I've personally tried.

[Brainsick]

Well i got home today and guess what was waiting for me? the DC-1, this this is sweet, sounds fantastic, i believe i hear better midrange then the XDA-2, and voices sound better, although i didn't do a comparison between the two.

[hemster]

Feb 19, 2014 1:26:09 GMT -5 Brainsick said:

Well i got home today and guess what was waiting for me? the DC-1, this this is sweet, sounds fantastic, i believe i hear better midrange then the XDA-2, and voices sound better, although i didn't do a comparison between the two.

Welcome to the DC-1 club! Enjoy your DAC, it really is something special. 

[Brainsick]

TY, and i got it for $400 what a steal, what cds do you reccomend?

[severalethos]

Feb 19, 2014 2:05:10 GMT -5 Brainsick said:

TY, and i got it for $400 what a steal, what cds do you reccomend?

Ray Charles - Live
I would buy a new copy of the CD (if I didn't have one already, lol) from someone other than Amazon, directly, like one of the other marketplace sellers, because Amazon is going to "burn" you a CD-R to order. In my opinion, this is a Big 'no-no'. It will not be the same "factory pressed" version that I bought from that same product page on Amazon, back in 2009. Anyway, that's a great one to help you break-in your DC-1, even though it is only 16bit 44.1kHz audio

If you're looking for something a little bit more 24-bit, try Herbie Hancock's live album Flood recently released in 24bit/96kHz studio master quality on acousticsounds.com and qobuz.com, although, I will, personally, always prefer the sound of my NM vinyl copy of that album. I could suggest albums forever, but this ain't the right place for that; you can message me, however, if you want to talk more about awesome albums. Pick a genre, I'll suggest away!

[garbulky]

Feb 19, 2014 2:05:10 GMT -5 Brainsick said:

TY, and i got it for $400 what a steal, what cds do you reccomend?

Josh it depends on your preferences. What may be amazing for me may be snoozeville for you.
What sounded really nice was choral stuff, chamber stuff and a lot of stuff with female singers in it.

www.amazon.com/Treasures-Spanish-Renaissance-Francisco-Guerrero/dp/B000002ZI9/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1381732497&sr=8-3&keywords=treasures+of+the+spanish+renaissance

[Golden Ear]

Is the preamp section of DC-1 using analog input better than USP-1?

[roadrunner]

Feb 20, 2014 13:45:32 GMT -5 Golden Ear said:

Is the preamp section of DC-1 using analog input better than USP-1?

Most owners feel the DC-1 is better, but some users have reported that the USP-1 has better dynamics. There are so many other things that will impact the sound in your system, that the only way to really answer that question is to buy one and compare it to your USP-1 (assuming you have one) in your home. Your source equipment, your speakers, your room's acoustics, furnishings, etc all impact the sound you will hear; and, depending on all the variables you may hear no difference at all or you may find the USP-1 sounds better or you may find the DC-1 sounds better. If you find no difference or you find the USP-1 is better you could then return the DC-1 under the 30-day trial period... let your ears decide.

[Leif]

Reference Emo's latest Podcast re: DSD development. Does anyone know if the DC-1 will be able to be retro-fitted?  I've had mine for two months -- can use my s/w (Audirvana) player to translate DSD to PCM and this works fine -- DSD (via PCM) sounds very nice. However, would like to run DSD native thru DC-1 if possible.