DC-1

[novisnick]

DSD files go from PC to USB stick to front of Oppo 103 to coax to DC-1 to XSP-1 to XPR-1.
The Oppo translates the DSD and the rest is nirvana

Nick.

[KeithL]

Routing DSD to the DAC requires a significant hardware modification, so I very much doubt that it will be possible to retrofit current units.

Feb 21, 2014 11:02:54 GMT -5 Leif said:

Reference Emo's latest Podcase re: DSD development. Does anyone know if the DC-1 will be able to be retro-fitted. Mine have had mine for two months -- can use my s/w (Audirvana) player to translate DSD to PCM and this works fine -- DSD sounds very nice. However, would like to run DSD native thru DC-1 if possible.

[jmilton]

I suspect an Emotiva DSD DAC will be coming eventually.
_______________________________________________
It’s not a DSD world …. yet

"In my opinion the future of all high resolution capable DACS is DSD. As mentioned earlier, most modern DACS are already converting PCM to DSD internally anyway, even many low cost USB only DACS that handle 192kHz/24 bits are Delta Sigma converters (at their hearts) and thus the architecture used is essentially that of DSD.

So one might ask why not start with DSD in the first place? Why convert from PCM to DSD when a pure DSD stream would make more sense? There are a number of good reasons why this hasn’t yet happened more. Certainly there’s an increase in DSD downloads available; for which you need a DSD capable DAC to play them. There are also a few original PCM recordings that have been converted to DSD – a practice I find loathsome at best, certainly not on the up and up at the least. An original DSD recording is one thing, converted analog to DSD is a great practice, converting original PCM to DSD and calling it “DSD” is not kosher IMHO.

Now let’s understand DSD isn’t all that friendly to recording engineers and studios. For one thing, you cannot edit DSD. You cannot digitally EQ DSD. When a recording studio wants to make edits or EQ the raw data they must first convert it to PCM, edit it, then convert it back to DSD. So that’s a problem – but it turns out this is ok if you start with DSD, go to PCM and then back again.

Modern recording equipment that can handle DSD, like the Sonoma workstation used by our friends Gus Skinas and Cookie Marenco, can go from DSD to PCM and back again with nary a hitch in the get along. There doesn’t seem to be a way to go from an original PCM recording to DSD and gain any of the advantages of DSD (which kind of makes sense), but going from DSD to PCM and back again is apparently ok. But it’s not recordings or media I am really focusing on. No, it is DAC architecture.

Modern DACS, for the foreseeable future, will have to include a PCM to DSD converter. The trick to building superior DACS, I believe, will be to base the newest generation of DACS around DSD centric engines with PCM converters tacked on, as opposed to PCM centric architectures using a DSD Delta Sigma converter tacked onto the back. In fact, if you remember our post Lost my bits, I posted a block diagram of the Wolfson DAC chip we (and many others) use in the PWD. There you can see a PCM centric DAC with the capability of a DSD input. This describes 99% of the available chip sets out there for audio designers today. No effort has been put into manipulating the volume in DSD, or anything else other than just bypassing the PCM converter and giving designers a direct shot into the Delta Sigma modulator section." - Paul McGowan

______________________________________________

So, I'm waiting for the DC-2!

[garbulky]

With the poor market penetration of DSD music, the idea that DACs that do PCM which is the most widest used stereo format should now by standard have an extra conversion in them to convert to DSD is I think a bad decision. Why would I want that?
I'd rather the PCM DACs simply perform better at cheaper prices.
But I too want the DC-2 and I hope it's in the larger format of the XDA dacs.
Other features I would like -
Improve the pre-amp. Have them drive the power amps with better dynamic capability.
Fine tune the sound a bit better. It's the best DAC I've heard but I get the impression that it could do with a little tuning. For instance at soft volumes.
Please let's not get into the how much more tuned do you want than perfectly flat? That's not what I'm talking about!

[jmilton]

Ummmm...As Paul mentioned earlier, most modern DACS are already converting PCM to DSD internally anyway, even many low cost USB only DACS that handle 192kHz/24 bits are Delta Sigma converters (at their hearts) and thus the architecture used is essentially that of DSD.

 One of the most fundamental of differences between PCM and PDM is how far away one is from analog and, of course, how close is the other.

PCM is about as far away from analog as you could get. PCM is a computer code. If you place the digital output of your CD player into your preamplifier and give it a listen, you get nothing but noise.

PDM (DSD) is about as close to analog as you can get without being analog. If you place the digital output of of a DSD player (were there such a beast in the first place) into your preamplifier and give it a listen, you get music.

That’s a big difference and one we should explore a bit more.


Check out Paul's thoughts here in this short blog (with a DAC diagram for the geeky people :

www.pstracks.com/pauls-posts/lost-bits/11680/

[ads]

Hi, first post here.

Ordered the DC-1 yesterday.

I plan to connect it directly to my power amps, thus will use the variable output.  If I like the DC-1 as much or better than my Music Hall DAC and Cambridge Audio preamp, I'll keep it.

I've read about 1/2 of this thread, so I apologize if this has already been covered.

What's the max output voltage and gain using the variable output?

For folks using the variable output to power amps, are you satisfied with the output level and dynamics at high volume levels?

Seems like most folks are happy with the variable output to power amps, but I've read a few comments suggesting limited dynamics.

Thanks.

[Golden Ear]

Because the popularity of compressed music like iTunes or mp3, hi resolution music will not become mainstream. Most people in these modern time listen to portability and only few number of people would want to invest on expensive gears. Until there is a big demand on hi resolution music, recording studio will stick to compressed sound where they can make easy money. Why spend time and effort if there is no big demand and make little money?

[jmilton]

Feb 21, 2014 14:22:44 GMT -5 Golden Ear said:

Because the popularity of compressed music like iTunes or mp3, hi resolution music will not become mainstream. Most people in these modern time listen to portability and only few number of people would want to invest on expensive gears. Until there is a big demand on hi resolution music, recording studio will stick to compressed sound where they can make easy money. Why spend time and effort if there is no big demand and make little money?

Ah, but 2014 may be the year Hi Rez "breaks out"....

www.whathifi.com/blog/could-2014-be-the-year-that-high-res-audio-goes-mainstream


There are quite a few hi rez streaming sites online these days, and the catalogs are getting bigger each day. More listeners "care" then just a few years ago. The ranks are swelling...    Besides, the people on this forum aren't "most people".

[audiobill]

Feb 21, 2014 13:54:17 GMT -5 ads said:

Hi, first post here.

Ordered the DC-1 yesterday.

I plan to connect it directly to my power amps, thus will use the variable output.  If I like the DC-1 as much or better than my Music Hall DAC and Cambridge Audio preamp, I'll keep it.

I've read about 1/2 of this thread, so I apologize if this has already been covered.

What's the max output voltage and gain using the variable output?

For folks using the variable output to power amps, are you satisfied with the output level and dynamics at high volume levels?

Seems like most folks are happy with the variable output to power amps, but I've read a few comments suggesting limited dynamics.

Thanks.

Works great straight into my XPA-1 G1's.

[garbulky]

Feb 21, 2014 13:54:17 GMT -5 ads said:

Hi, first post here.

Ordered the DC-1 yesterday.

I plan to connect it directly to my power amps, thus will use the variable output.  If I like the DC-1 as much or better than my Music Hall DAC and Cambridge Audio preamp, I'll keep it.

I've read about 1/2 of this thread, so I apologize if this has already been covered.

What's the max output voltage and gain using the variable output?

For folks using the variable output to power amps, are you satisfied with the output level and dynamics at high volume levels?

Seems like most folks are happy with the variable output to power amps, but I've read a few comments suggesting limited dynamics.

Thanks.

I used the DC-1 direct to the UPA-2. To my ears - the USP-1 pre-amplifier has more dynamics. But the DC-1 is clearer direct to amp.
The DC-1 has about the same level of dynamic grunt in terms of driving the UPA-2 direct as pretty much any DAC I've heard. So it doesn't mean it's awful as a pre-amp. Just that the USP-1 has more dynamics.

[clearear]

I agree the USP-1 has more dynamics and the DC-1 has more resolution (at least in my system). Also the DC-1's volume control is better. Ultimately it depends on your other gear too and which you personally prefer.

[ads]

Thanks for the input.

Does the DC-1 preamp stage have a gain stage beyond the LM4562 op-amp?  

Also, has it been confirmed that the "0" volume setting is unity gain in a HT bypass scenario, using the analog inputs?  Would using the fixed output setting also result in unity gain?

A lot of questions, I know.  Just trying to understand what I bought.  

[garbulky]

Feb 21, 2014 13:16:38 GMT -5 jmilton said:

Ummmm...As Paul mentioned earlier, most modern DACS are already converting PCM to DSD internally anyway, even many low cost USB only DACS that handle 192kHz/24 bits are Delta Sigma converters (at their hearts) and thus the architecture used is essentially that of DSD.

I had no idea of this. Thanks for the info. I shall read the link.

[Leif]

Feb 21, 2014 12:43:42 GMT -5 jmilton said:

I suspect an Emotiva DSD DAC will be coming eventually.
_______________________________________________
It’s not a DSD world …. yet

So one might ask why not start with DSD in the first place? Why convert from PCM to DSD when a pure DSD stream would make more sense? There are a number of good reasons why this hasn’t yet happened more. Certainly there’s an increase in DSD downloads available; for which you need a DSD capable DAC to play them. There are also a few original PCM recordings that have been converted to DSD – a practice I find loathsome at best, certainly not on the up and up at the least. An original DSD recording is one thing, converted analog to DSD is a great practice, converting original PCM to DSD and calling it “DSD” is not kosher IMHO.

JMilton,

Several companies -- one Kansas-based who is well known for quality vinyl reproductions from original master tapes has just begun offering DSD downloads.  Do you know the provenance of these recordings -- e.g., since there are so many offerings on initial market entrance, it might have been tempting to convert original PCM to DSD?  I've dropped them a note too -- but thought you may have some knowledge on the subject.  By the way, I have some of their vinyl -- the RCA Shaded Dog repros are v. nice.  Thanks.

[jmilton]

Leif, I can not say for certain but asking them what there source resolution is is appropriate. What company is it?

[Leif]

They are acoustic sounds ... seems to be one of the better companies out there. Their label is "Anolog Productions". In this case, for their DSD downloads, provenance is provided in the details section of the item (if available) but I can't find the same level of detail, say, on HDTracks. It appears that this company steers clear of PCM to DSD but preferes to master from original analog master tapes or from original DSD

I got this response from their cust svc department to the DSD Source question

A customer support staff member has replied to your support request, #441111 with the following response:

Dear Leif,

The source of the DSD files is different on a case by case basis. It is normally noted in the description. Our Analog Productions label always trys to source our files from the most analog master available, but we have no control over the music provided to us from major labels.

-<customer svc rep name>

I can't say that I get the same level of detail from others, for instance, Linn is good, some others, less so. Caveat emptor.

[Brainsick]

Can tge dc-1 power the Sennheiser hd 600/650?

[eclypse]

Feb 28, 2014 22:00:30 GMT -5 Brainsick said:

Can tge dc-1 power the Sennheiser hd 600/650?

I've heard from keith from emotiva that it does no problem.

[garbulky]

Feb 28, 2014 22:00:30 GMT -5 Brainsick said:

Can tge dc-1 power the Sennheiser hd 600/650?

Yes they do quite well. It's about as good in quality as my xenos 3ha standalone headphone amplifier at reasonable volumes.

[Brainsick]

Feb 28, 2014 22:58:30 GMT -5 eclypse said:

Feb 28, 2014 22:00:30 GMT -5 Brainsick said:

Can tge dc-1 power the Sennheiser hd 600/650?

I've heard from keith from emotiva that it does no problem.

OK GREAT TY vary much