Just ordered XPA-5

[hemster]

Jan 31, 2013 18:00:52 GMT -5 extrafuzzyllama said:

with a upa700 does it add the 80w on top of the power from receiver or only 80w to the each speaker connected? and is 80w enough?

That'll be 80W from the amp alone. But hey, it's 80 clean honest-to-goodness watts!

[buggs1a]

Does anyone know about Legacy Audio?

[The Mad Norseman]

Jan 31, 2013 19:21:38 GMT -5 hemster said:

Jan 31, 2013 18:00:52 GMT -5 extrafuzzyllama said:

with a upa700 does it add the 80w on top of the power from receiver or only 80w to the each speaker connected? and is 80w enough?

That'll be 80W from the amp alone. But hey, it's 80 clean honest-to-goodness watts!

That's right.
That 80 watts (per EACH channel) won't be drawn off or diluted for use by some other channel during demanding sequences. You'll get at least 80w per, not a 5 or 7 channel amp that's only 80w/channel - 2 channels driven.

[Deleted]

>> and is 80w enough? <<

Since 80 watts will generate more than 115db, I would think it would be *more* than enough. Most folks typically listen at 75-85 db - 115db is extremely loud...

-RW-

[garbulky]

Also if you are getting cold feet - this should help you:
1. Most listening is done at a one to a few watts. Really. If your speakers are 89 db efficient it means it only takes 1 watt to get to 89 db (pretty loud!). The reason for getting bigger amps is because of dynamic headroom - sometimes it can demand 100's of watts for very loud sudden peaks as peaks are exponential in power requirements. BUT 80 true watts of high quality power will deliver some serious quality.
2. If you get a UPA-700, that is the minumun power it will deliver. Most of the time only the front 2 or three channels demand power. The surrounds demand much less. Any unused power will go to where it's needed. So what they mean is you get 80 watts per channel minumum. But in real life where the surrounds demand so much less, your front speakers where the aciton is happening will be getting a power greater than 80 watts. Even more if your speakers are 4 ohm speakers and we know that ohm ratintngs dipp the louder you go and since your amp is rated at 4 ohms capability you will be delivering more current as the impedance dips low. An AVR (usually) has trouble with 4 ohms and will not be able to deliver that kind of power.
For instance the upa500 can deliver 160 watts, two channels driven and I imagine the UPA-700 can do similar. Most of the time due to the low demand on the surrounds you will be getting close to that.

Long story short:
1. It may be rated at 80X7 but in reality, you will be getting way more than that where it counts to the front speakers.
2. 80 X 7 is ALL CHANNELS DRIVEN is much much better than regular AVR ratings.
3. Back in the day, uber power amps of today were not available and people did great.
4. I have the old upa-2 and it is able to handle finesse of the audio very well.

[extrafuzzyllama]

thanks for the info garbulky. I think I will go with the upa700 and maybe add another amp since I might add two more speakers for 9.2 setup. or is the reciever fine handling the last two speakers while amp handles the other seven?
and should I wait for it to be on sale again?

[buggs1a]

Anyone?
Legacy Audio?

[Dan Laufman]

Legacy Audio is a first rate company. Beautifully made speakers, and very nice sounding too.

Bill Duddleson and his family are wonderful people.

You can buy with confidence.

Big Dan

[Dan Laufman]

I can't imagine not hearing an improvement when you drive your system with proper amplification. We test gear in here all of the time and I am amazed by the difference in SQ between many similar products. And it's not just about power. I'm talking about how a component SOUNDS. When I hear people state that there is no discernible difference between similar components, I'm just blown away.

It's is real and there are differences, sometime huge differences, between products of a similar nature.

And I'm 59. I don't have hearing sensitivity like I did when I was 25, but it's still easy to hear SQ differences. For subtle differences, you have to train yourself to listen. Really listen.

But sometimes, it so apparent, it's like...duh! Lonnie just designed a Class A variant of one of our more poplar power amplifiers, and the difference in SQ when switching between Class A and Class AB was striking! It was not something that you had to even go back and forth trying to discern the difference. It was BANG. Wow!! HUGE!!

We had a very well reviewed receiver in here, and it utilized a Class D power stage and it was just un-listenable. Really. When we took the preamp outs of the receiver and drove the system with a little UPA-700 the improvement was so clearly audible, so instantly discernible, we thought we must have a defective receiver! Really. The UPA-700 is rated at about 60% of the power of this receiver, and there was no comparison. At all listening levels, not just flat out. I had the chance to speak to the head designer of that company some time later, and he confirmed my observations. He thought the receiver sounded terrible too! BTW, it measured beautifully. Go figure.

When I hear a person state that there are no SQ differences between different components of similar power and design, so don't even bother listening or evaluating on your own as there is no point in it, I know that they are dead wrong. My own ears and my mind have been telling me otherwise for most of my life. This is what got me hooked on audio when I was a kid. This is why I got into the business.

Maybe they can't tell the difference, but many people CAN.

We don't sell hype at Emotiva. We sell performance based on solid design and proven engineering principles. We don't claim our cables can cure cancer, lower the rising tides, or change the harmonic alignment of your home. But they can carry the electrical signal between your components with minimal harm and interference, with properly designed shielding, appropriate impedance, low DCR and inductance, etc.

I believe it pays to listen. Trust your own ears and judgment. Sometimes there is so small a difference, it's not worth paying a huge cost increase for a diminishing return in SQ improvement. Other times it's worth every penny!

We've tried to bridge the divide by designing an building products that sound like $10K, but cost a grand. I think that many, many of you see and hear what we are doing and the investment in great sound is worth it to you.

For those of you who don't hear the magic, this is why we have a 30 day in home trial period. You have nothing to lose, but maybe you will be pleasantly surprised when you push that power button and your musical world changes for the better!!

When someone tells me that all audio equipment sounds the same, he probably thinks that a beer is just a beer too, right??

Happy hunting.
Big Dan

[creimes]

Yeah my first step into Separates with the UPA-1's was like night and day from the Internal amps in my Yamaha RXV-1065 at all volume levels, and now since I have a RSP-2 on it's way I might need 2 of these XPA-1L as I'm assuming that's what you mentioned when going class A - class A/B......

[extrafuzzyllama]

great info here.
I am trying to decide which emotiva amp to get.
or maybe a combo of amps.
my current setup is a 5.1 I plan on going for a 9.2 setup.
to get most of my speakers would the upa-700 be best option?
or get a combo of amps?

[Deleted]

Garbulky makes some very valid claims with one minor exception which he kinda backed into later in his post:

"...Any unused power will go to where it's needed. So what they mean is you get 80 watts per channel minumum. But in real life where the surrounds demand so much less, your front speakers where the aciton is happening will be getting a power greater than 80 watts. Even more if your speakers are 4 ohm speakers and we know that ohm ratintngs dipp the louder you go and since your amp is rated at 4 ohms capability you will be delivering more current as the impedance dips low..."

Impedance changes with frequency, not power delivery. I know of no 8 ohm nominal speakers that actually maintain 8 ohms impedance throughout the audible frequency range. At some frequencies they will have 16 ohms impedance, at others 4 ohms. This is not "loudness" related, it is frequency related.

Secondly, these devices are not 100% efficient. If the surrounds are drawing only 20 watts, it does not mean that the extra 60 watts per channel will be available to the fronts. *Some* of the "unused" wattage will be available, but not 100% of it.

Additionally, as Garbulky mentioned, 80 watts per channel was a pant-load of power back in the day. David Hafler set the amp world on fire when he introduced his affordable 100 watt/ch. amps, the DH-200s. I remember thinking, what the hell would someone do with that much power?!

And then NAD came along and let everyone know just what headroom was all about. Their 50 watt/ch. amps could swing 150 watts/ch. for brief periods. And boy did they ever sound good for very little money!! I had a bridged setup using an NAD 3150 mated to a 2150 and it absolutely destroyed any receiver on the market.

We are experiencing another Golden Age of amplification and Big Dan and company have tapped into that with their over-achieving line of amps...

-RW-

[creimes]

Most have been brain washed into focusing solely on the amount of watts an amplifier stage can "apparently" push out, I know for myself it started from poorly made car audio and highly marketed receiver's sold in the local box store's, and I'm not saying they are all bad but they tend to lead people in a different direction of quality sound. Like I have previously mentioned with going from my Yamaha receiver to external amps even at lower volumes the music sounded like it had more muscle backing it producing more dynamic's and openness to the imaging and sounstage.

kinda made me think of muscle car having a 100hp 4cyl engine and then changing it out for a 500hp 8cyl...even at idle it sounds more powerful. I'm guessing it's not just the output power but the circuitry around it in what gives it that nice clean amplification.

[pawsman]

I'd 2nd Dan's recommendation of Legacy Audio, they are a great Company. I owned the Legacy Focus back in the mid 1990's, and it was a great Speaker in its day. I heard the Legacy Focus SE at the 2011 Axpona show in Atlanta, and was blown away. I thought it was the best sound at the show. Incredible dynamics, very tight bass, almost unlimited sound pressure capability, and the new Heil AMT Mid/tweeter is simply amazing. The highs are really detailed but very smooth. I'd love to hear the new Aeris-

pawsman

[fritz1]

Feb 3, 2013 10:11:56 GMT -5 Dan Laufman said:

I can't imagine not hearing an improvement when you drive your system with proper amplification. We test gear in here all of the time and I am amazed by the difference in SQ between many similar products. And it's not just about power. I'm talking about how a component SOUNDS. When I hear people state that there is no discernible difference between similar components, I'm just blown away.

It's is real and there are differences, sometime huge differences, between products of a similar nature.

And I'm 59. I don't have hearing sensitivity like I did when I was 25, but it's still easy to hear SQ differences. For subtle differences, you have to train yourself to listen. Really listen.

But sometimes, it so apparent, it's like...duh! Lonnie just designed a Class A variant of one of our more poplar power amplifiers, and the difference in SQ when switching between Class A and Class AB was striking! It was not something that you had to even go back and forth trying to discern the difference. It was BANG. Wow!! HUGE!!

We had a very well reviewed receiver in here, and it utilized a Class D power stage and it was just un-listenable. Really. When we took the preamp outs of the receiver and drove the system with a little UPA-700 the improvement was so clearly audible, so instantly discernible, we thought we must have a defective receiver! Really. The UPA-700 is rated at about 60% of the power of this receiver, and there was no comparison. At all listening levels, not just flat out. I had the chance to speak to the head designer of that company some time later, and he confirmed my observations. He thought the receiver sounded terrible too! BTW, it measured beautifully. Go figure.

When I hear a person state that there are no SQ differences between different components of similar power and design, so don't even bother listening or evaluating on your own as there is no point in it, I know that they are dead wrong. My own ears and my mind have been telling me otherwise for most of my life. This is what got me hooked on audio when I was a kid. This is why I got into the business.

Maybe they can't tell the difference, but many people CAN.

We don't sell hype at Emotiva. We sell performance based on solid design and proven engineering principles. We don't claim our cables can cure cancer, lower the rising tides, or change the harmonic alignment of your home. But they can carry the electrical signal between your components with minimal harm and interference, with properly designed shielding, appropriate impedance, low DCR and inductance, etc.

I believe it pays to listen. Trust your own ears and judgment. Sometimes there is so small a difference, it's not worth paying a huge cost increase for a diminishing return in SQ improvement. Other times it's worth every penny!

We've tried to bridge the divide by designing an building products that sound like $10K, but cost a grand. I think that many, many of you see and hear what we are doing and the investment in great sound is worth it to you.

For those of you who don't hear the magic, this is why we have a 30 day in home trial period. You have nothing to lose, but maybe you will be pleasantly surprised when you push that power button and your musical world changes for the better!!

When someone tells me that all audio equipment sounds the same, he probably thinks that a beer is just a beer too, right??

Happy hunting.
Big Dan

Very well put Dan this was my experience when I decided to use one of my receivers as a pre pro(class D as well), I have the same opinion on folks that say there is no difference between components it's too bad they can't hear it, I see a few of posts on another forum claiming this but I know what my ears are telling me and it's not pseudo effect thanks and keep up the good work.

[The Mad Norseman]

Feb 3, 2013 10:11:56 GMT -5 Dan Laufman said:

When I hear people state that there is no discernible difference between similar components, I'm just blown away.
It's is real and there are differences, sometime huge differences, between products of a similar nature.
When I hear a person state that there are no SQ differences between different components of similar power and design, so don't even bother listening or evaluating on your own as there is no point in it, I know that they are dead wrong. My own ears and my mind have been telling me otherwise for most of my life. This is what got me hooked on audio when I was a kid. This is why I got into the business.
Maybe they can't tell the difference, but many people CAN.
When someone tells me that all audio equipment sounds the same, he probably thinks that a beer is just a beer too, right??
Happy hunting.
Big Dan

Looks to me like Big Dan just took "thepcguy" (and his oft-posted chart), to the woodshed for a reality check!

[buggs1a]

Man I wish so much that I could hear Legacy Audio speakers. So much.

[creimes]

Yeah I checked their pricing and even the base model tower is out of my price range...haha

[tz]

I would be very interested in the class A version of Emotivas popular amp designed by Lonnie as Dan suggested. Which one is it?

[broncsrule21]

He was possibly talking about the XPA-1L, Maybe?