|
|
Post by arthurz on Feb 3, 2013 15:18:48 GMT -5
N8DOGG – the point about comparing from memory is very well taken. I think it'd be possible to derive an objective measure of the difference between two components by looking at the average time needed between samples in an ABX test until the differences disappear. So, for example, let's say there's a real difference between two sets of speakers, like 803D and 804D. I can hear that difference if the two samples are played back-to-back. I think (but cannot be sure) I can identify this in an ABX test with a 100% accuracy. But, if you spaced the samples apart by a minute, my confidence would go way down, essentially saying that the difference is small and its $ value should be carefully evaluated. This brings me to another point, which is the energy spent comparing amplifiers, where any upgrades have got to provide the least bang for the buck, compared to better speakers, sources, and preamps. I'm not going to attack anyone's setup, but please take a look at the members' speakers whenever they talk about how great their amps are. Then take the $ difference between their amp and a comparable Emotiva, and imagine how much better their rig would get if they spent it on a speaker upgrade  . |
|
|
|
Post by pedrocols on Feb 3, 2013 15:19:36 GMT -5
I agree that source material is the determining factor. I have some really delicious recordings with female vocals that had sibilance, but the Halo amp doesn't lose control of the tweeters with sibilance. So some sibilance above 80db with the XPA amp, and none at all with the Parasound plus a better soundstage with better bass control. It depends on your goals and budget I guess. As for looks, the Halo amps look amazing. Welcome to the EmOtIvA LoUnGe!!! And yes Sharkman I get it...you didn't like your emo amp... |
|
|
|
Post by edoggrc51 on Feb 3, 2013 15:19:52 GMT -5
But when something like sibilance pops up, it doesn't take mere memory to decide if it was there before because it's very plain to hear. I tested the XPA-3 and Parasound A21 side by side, to hear if they both gave sibilance with the same music and the same volume. The Parasound did not. We know it is recording related some are hotter than others, etc, but these are good quality recordings, like Nora Jones, for instance. And for myself, it could be a mismatch between speaker and amp, I have no problem saying the speakers could be too open in the top end. But at the end of the day, it makes no difference for me, because when I put the Halo amp in the chain, the sibilance was gone. Can you post the exact song you're talking about? I'd like to see if I can pick up the siblilance in my system. |
|
|
|
Post by pedrocols on Feb 3, 2013 15:20:42 GMT -5
And how much weight can you give the comments of a fanboy, chuck? Not much, unfortunately. In my system with the exact same speakers, exact same room, exact same source and exact same songs, one amp gave sibilance and the other amp did not at the exact same volume level. It's the amp. It's not the end of the world, the XPA amps can not possibly match well with all speaker brands in the world and to think otherwise is just not realistic. Welcome to the EmOtIvA LoUnGe!!! And yes Sharkman I get it...you didn't like your emo amp... |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2013 15:22:43 GMT -5
It's our job to doubt though! LOL
I will admit, pretty much everything on this thread is the complete opposite to my experience but thats whats great about this hobby, we are all different. I'd just personally be much happier reading any review if it was an A/B test but that's just me and it's great the xpa-5 is growing on you. In my case, I always liked my XPA-5 but always hated the 32db gain structure, which I why I got rid of it and my
xpa-2.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2013 15:39:54 GMT -5
>> Can you post the exact song you're talking about? I'd like to see if I can pick up the siblilance in my system. <<
I first heard it on the REM albums "Green" and "Best Of", both DVD-Audio discs. Right now I'm listening to Alan Parsons' "On Air" and I'm hearing a bit of it. The second track shows it off. The "S"s and "T"s have a "bite" to them. And the cymbals and tambourine sound a little bit "etched" or sharp. I realize that these are somewhat imprecise terms, but they are the best I can conjure up right now. I will say that it is not as bad as I remember with the MMC-1, that really bit my head off and was intolerable.
The bass sounds *terrific* on the third and fourth tracks, very full and authoritative!! See, it's not all bad <g>! Okay, back to listening...
-RW-
|
|
|
|
Post by sharkman on Feb 3, 2013 16:16:29 GMT -5
Can you post the exact song you're talking about? I'd like to see if I can pick up the siblilance in my system. Sorry, I just saw your post as this thread has had a lot of activity! I would suggest that if you haven't heard any sibilance with your XPR amp then you are fine. My testing was about 6 months ago and I can only remember one track now. Martina Mcbride, Waking Up Laughing, track 11, Love Land. As well you might notice that some CDs are recorded brighter than others or hotter than others and have extended highs. I experienced the sibilance at higher volumes with peaks above 82db or so. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2013 16:18:07 GMT -5
David, it's a good thing you didn't write "Typical man." That woulda resulted in your receiving a double-secret probation sanction. Don't ask me how I know...
However, I will continue to pay attention to Chuckster. He's basically a good guy and I appreciate most of his posts. Maybe he's just having a bad day? Perhaps he's a 49ers fan and just now realizes how bad it's gonna be for his team tonite? Who knows...?
-RW-
|
|
|
|
Post by sharkman on Feb 3, 2013 16:20:38 GMT -5
It's our job to doubt though! LOL I will admit, pretty much everything on this thread is the complete opposite to my experience but thats whats great about this hobby, we are all different. I'd just personally be much happier reading any review if it was an A/B test but that's just me and it's great the xpa-5 is growing on you. In my case, I always liked my XPA-5 but always hated the 32db gain structure, which I why I got rid of it and my xpa-2. Yes, I suppose challenging opinions is itself not a bad thing, and as usual you make good points regarding your experience. I wondered at the high gain myself, but I guess it would depend on the sensitivity of the speakers. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2013 16:28:43 GMT -5
Just for grins, I cranked my XPA-5 up to 68 on the UMC-1 display. I did this with the Oppo 93 in-circuit but with nothing playing. If it was playing, the SPLs woulda been thunderous, probably around 110db. And all I heard was dead silence, no system hiss whatsoever. My Gallos are 89db efficient. The XPA-5 is one *quiet* amp, that's for sure...
-RW-
|
|
DYohn
Emo VIPs 
Posts: 18,486
|
Post by DYohn on Feb 3, 2013 16:32:06 GMT -5
Typical, Man.  |
|
DYohn
Emo VIPs
Posts: 18,486
|
Post by DYohn on Feb 3, 2013 16:38:01 GMT -5
Say something about gays and see how sensitive he is. So what, now you're defending bigotry and homophobia? Typical, man. |
|
|
|
Post by monkumonku on Feb 3, 2013 17:02:54 GMT -5
Pedrocols: You have quite a bizarre sense of humor. I love it. ;D
|
|
|
|
Post by monkumonku on Feb 3, 2013 17:07:17 GMT -5
I've found sibilance to be much more a function of the speaker. One particularly strong example is at the beginning of "I Love Being Here With You" from Diana Krall's "Live in Paris" CD. When she starts out singing, "I love the east, I love the west..." the word "east" has a high degree of sibilance. Or at least it does on certain speakers. I find that the smoothest rendition of this line is through my current Mirage OMD 28's, where it doesn't bother me. On other speakers I've had, it really stood out. I've also found that the amp really does not make any difference (although I have not used a wide range - an Onkyo 706 AVR, XPA-3, XPA-2 and XPA-1).
While it is the smoothest through my 28's, there is no lack of detail or high end in these speakers.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dan Laufman on Feb 3, 2013 17:09:52 GMT -5
OK boys. We taken this thread as far as it needs to go into the woods.
Play nice.
Pece out,
Big Dan
|
|
|
|
Post by briank on Feb 3, 2013 17:52:57 GMT -5
I never noticed any sibilance issues with my XPA-5. It sounded fantastic with the Anthem MRX 300 as a PrePro. However with the Marantz AV7005 and Anthem AVM 50 it had a bit of a shrill and sharp edge to the treble. The mids were also a little leaner than I prefer. This is why I sold it and bought the Lexicon with 200 watts x 7 channels, fully balanced design. Now I have the full bodied sound with no treble issues. I wonder if the high gain of the XPA-5 makes it work better with receivers with lower powered Preamp outs but can possibly cause SQ issues with higher voltage outputs of dedicated PrePros?!?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2013 17:56:46 GMT -5
Hey, who is he calling a boy?
Seriously, I hear a lot of sibilance from Norah Jones but I found that to be in the recording and not gear. Anyone else have her first album and hear that? Try track #14, The Nearness of You.
Whoops, I've got to go. I have to sing the National Anthem at 6;30PM. Beyonce called in sick.
PS Sorry, I meant her natural voice as recorded and not an issue with the recording equipment.
|
|
|
|
Post by edoggrc51 on Feb 3, 2013 18:36:39 GMT -5
Can you post the exact song you're talking about? I'd like to see if I can pick up the siblilance in my system. Sorry, I just saw your post as this thread has had a lot of activity! I would suggest that if you haven't heard any sibilance with your XPR amp then you are fine. My testing was about 6 months ago and I can only remember one track now. Martina Mcbride, Waking Up Laughing, track 11, Love Land. As well you might notice that some CDs are recorded brighter than others or hotter than others and have extended highs. I experienced the sibilance at higher volumes with peaks above 82db or so. I'll have to check out that song, thanks! So here's a question for you and RW, since you both posted on having heard a difference between the XPA-5 and your other amps. Big Dan basically stated that his Emotiva amps only amplify what's coming in. Meaning they are "neutral" sounding, no "coloring" of the sound, what goes in is what goes out. Do you guys think the sibilance that you're hearing is because that's what's actually on the source material? Perhaps the Butler and Parasound amps "colored" (removed, tamed) the sibilance you guys were hearing? Like Big Dan said, amp designers have the ability to "alter" the incoming signal, perhaps this is what is was going on. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2013 18:48:55 GMT -5
EDogger wrote:
"Perhaps the Butler and Parasound amps "colored" (removed, tamed) the sibilance you guys were hearing? Like Big Dan said, amp designers have the ability to "alter" the incoming signal, perhaps this is what is was going on. "
That could very well be. All I've done is reported what I heard. As to which amp is doing its job correctly, we'll probably never know...
-RW-
|
|
LCSeminole
Global Moderator 
Res firma mitescere nescit.
Posts: 20,850
|
Post by LCSeminole on Feb 3, 2013 19:05:55 GMT -5
Sorry, I just saw your post as this thread has had a lot of activity! I would suggest that if you haven't heard any sibilance with your XPR amp then you are fine. My testing was about 6 months ago and I can only remember one track now. Martina Mcbride, Waking Up Laughing, track 11, Love Land. As well you might notice that some CDs are recorded brighter than others or hotter than others and have extended highs. I experienced the sibilance at higher volumes with peaks above 82db or so. I'll have to check out that song, thanks! So here's a question for you and RW, since you both posted on having heard a difference between the XPA-5 and your other amps. Big Dan basically stated that his Emotiva amps only amplify what's coming in. Meaning they are "neutral" sounding, no "coloring" of the sound, what goes in is what goes out. Do you guys think the sibilance that you're hearing is because that's what's actually on the source material? Perhaps the Butler and Parasound amps "colored" (removed, tamed) the sibilance you guys were hearing? Like Big Dan said, amp designers have the ability to "alter" the incoming signal, perhaps this is what is was going on. This is a great question, I'll be curious to read all the different responses this just may get. |
|
.
