The XPA-5 vs. The Butler

[Deleted]

As some of you may know, I have sold my Butler TDB-5150 amp to Big Dan. Part of the deal involved my getting an XPA-5. It was a fair deal and I want to thank Big Dan.

This reveiew is *very* preliminary, I have only had it (the XPA-5) for a few hours. Nonetheless, I do notice some differences between the two units. However, I will be giving an update to this review once the XPA-5 has had another 100 hours to run-in.

Now on to my impressions...

We all pretty much know what we have in the XPA-5: A very good solid state amp with ample power reserves and a fairly high gain structure. And the price is a world-beater. I have noticed a bit of sibilance on the top-end. This is something that I do not tolerate well - I had to return 2 MMC-1s because of their extreme sibilance. I hope that this is mitigated by more run-in of the amp over the next few daze.

The Butler is a whole 'nother animal. It is a tube/MOSFET hybrid with a unique, patented topology. Take a look here for more info:

butleraudio.com/tdb5150.php

In short, the Butler is a *superb* amp - excellent build quality, top-notch components (you should see how nice the solid, machined gold-plated connectors look and feel!), and a very smooth, liquid, yet authoritative sound.

In comparison to the XPA-5, the Butler sounds a bit more refined. The top-end is to die for - very "liquid" yet sparkling, with no hint of sibilance or an "etched" sound. My Gallos eat this up!

The mids are equally satisfying - voices exist in air before you as though the vocalist is right in the room with you. Instruments have a nice sense of "air" around them with good attack and a nice semse of the decay of notes. This amp (The Butler) really rocks the mid-range! The XPA-5's mids are very good, I need some more time with it to give an honest appraisal.

The bottom end is good and solid, no real complaints. However, I think the XPA-5 may have the edge here, it is very solid and deep. The XPA-5 appears to exert greater control over the bass driver(s). It's not like the Butler is a slouch here, but the additional power reserves of the XPA-5 may be working to its advantage.

In short, I believe I can live with my decision to swap the Butler for the XPA-5. However, now that I have had a taste of what a really hi-end hybrid amp sounds like, I know that I will be looking for another Butler once my financial situation improves.

Ya got lucky, Big Dan, I hope you appreciate what you will soon have...

-RW-

[sharkman]

Yes, I had the XPA-3, which is pretty much the same amp with 2 fewer channels. It had sibilance too at the top end. For me it never improved or settled in, it was always there at certain volumes. It's one reason why I was suggesting on another thread that Emotiva revise their XPA line, but I don't think it'll happen.

Hope you can one day return to the Butler brand.

[Deleted]

RW, Do you still have the Butler for comparison or are you doing this from memory?

[Deleted]

PS: Were you using one of my movies when you evaluated the XPA-5?

[Topend]

I can't say I have noticed sibilance at all with my XPA amps.

I will do some testing today. Can you suggest some music that will show this up.

Dave.

[Deleted]

The Butler is boxed and will ship within the hour, so my "testing" is from memory. However, I have had this amp for a couple of years and I tested using music that I have played quite a bit over the years.

Another thing I noticed today is that the XPA-5 definitely plays a little louder than the Butler. However, at higher volumes the XPA-5 does not sound as good as the Butler did. It sounds a little bit "harsh". I know that I am nowhere near clipping the amp - I know what clipping sounds like and this ain't it.

My quick and dirty evaluation tells me that the XPA-5 is a very good Home Theater amp and it is good on music. But for critical listening to music, the Butler is decidedly better-sounding...

-RW-

[garbulky]

Get some RCA attenuators and see if they make a difference. I found it helped my UPA-2 clear up some harshness at louder volumes and during dynamics. Just a pair to see if it makes sense for stereo first. (It'll require recalibration).

[LCSeminole]

Feb 1, 2013 16:03:30 GMT -5 Topend said:

I can't say I have noticed sibilance at all with my XPA amps.

I will do some testing today. Can you suggest some music that will show this up.

Dave.

I too would like to test out any source material in which I may notice the sibilance from the XPA series amplifiers. I'm in the middle of rebuilding a two channel system and will be using my XPA-2 as the power amplifier, so I'm curious to hear this "sibilance" from any suggested source material.

[Deleted]

RW, how often did you need to change the tubes in this amp, and how much do the tubes cost? Are the tubes "hard wired" in or they the socket type?

[briank]

I would agree with RW's assessment of the XPA-5 especially if your using real good speakers. His Gallos are pretty good. Not as good as Selahs though.

[GreenKiwi]

Feb 1, 2013 17:22:06 GMT -5 @islandman2020 said:

RW, how often did you need to change the tubes in this amp, and how much do the tubes cost? Are the tubes "hard wired" in or they the socket type?

I think that the idea was that the tubes weren't driven hard and pretty much didn't need changing.

[Deleted]

>> RW, how often did you need to change the tubes in this amp, and how much do the tubes cost? Are the tubes "hard wired" in or they the socket type? <<

The tubes are driven at < 5% of their rated output. BK Butler claims they will last 20-25 years. They are relatively inexpensive tubes, about $20 ea. And they are soldered into their sockets...

-RW-

[sharkman]

Feb 1, 2013 17:30:13 GMT -5 briank said:

I would agree with RW's assessment of the XPA-5 especially if your using real good speakers. His Gallos are pretty good. Not as good as Selahs though.

Wow, that's some serious speakers and electronics you have there! On the XPA line, they were built to a lower price point, and do have their limitations.

[briank]

Feb 1, 2013 19:56:43 GMT -5 sharkman said:

Feb 1, 2013 17:30:13 GMT -5 briank said:

I would agree with RW's assessment of the XPA-5 especially if your using real good speakers. His Gallos are pretty good. Not as good as Selahs though.

Wow, that's some serious speakers and electronics you have there! On the XPA line, they were built to a lower price point, and do have their limitations.

Thank you. The XPA-5 is very good for the money but I agree it does have its limitations. I owned the XPA-5 prior to the Lexicon. I look forward to listening to the XPR series to see how it compares.

[weird23]

I've been using my XPA-5 for about a week to power my system, it's the first time I've used it to power anything other than the surrounds. I have noticed a bit of sibilance as well, I have also noticed that a bit with my XPA-1's as well. Not sure how much of it is the amp or the source material though.

I think I'll be trying out the XPR series the next time they go on sale, I am intrigued by the XPA-1L as well. Decisions, decisions.

[thepcguy]

Vocal sibilance is an unpleasant tonal harshness that can happen during consonant syllables (like S, T, and Z), caused by disproportionate audio dynamics in upper midrange frequencies. Sibilance is often centered between 5kHz to 8kHz, but can occur well above that frequency range.

This problem is usually caused by the actual vocal formant, but can also be exaggerated by microphone placement and technique. This article will discuss some ways to control vocal sibilance, and keep the problem from becoming a musical distraction.

theproaudiofiles.com/vocal-sibilance/

[sharkman]

Feb 1, 2013 20:49:16 GMT -5 weird23 said:

I've been using my XPA-5 for about a week to power my system, it's the first time I've used it to power anything other than the surrounds. I have noticed a bit of sibilance as well, I have also noticed that a bit with my XPA-1's as well. Not sure how much of it is the amp or the source material though.

I think I'll be trying out the XPR series the next time they go on sale, I am intrigued by the XPA-1L as well. Decisions, decisions.

For me it was as simple as getting a different amp/speaker combination. Some speakers are brighter sounding although they mostly measure pretty flat. Same with some amps I guess. I'm curious to see if the XPR amps have the same Emotiva house sound.

[weird23]

I don't find the sibilance that bad with the Dyn's, it bothered me much more with the Digm Sigs I had previously. I think it's more likely the source material than anything else.

I don't think they'll be much of a change with the XPR seriesand I don't need them at all, they just look so damn cool.

[sharkman]

I agree that source material is the determining factor. I have some really delicious recordings with female vocals that had sibilance, but the Halo amp doesn't lose control of the tweeters with sibilance. So some sibilance above 80db with the XPA amp, and none at all with the Parasound plus a better soundstage with better bass control.

It depends on your goals and budget I guess. As for looks, the Halo amps look amazing.

[indyscammer]

Feb 1, 2013 20:58:51 GMT -5 thepcguy said:

Vocal sibilance is an unpleasant tonal harshness that can happen during consonant syllables (like S, T, and Z), caused by disproportionate audio dynamics in upper midrange frequencies. Sibilance is often centered between 5kHz to 8kHz, but can occur well above that frequency range.

This problem is usually caused by the actual vocal formant, but can also be exaggerated by microphone placement and technique. This article will discuss some ways to control vocal sibilance, and keep the problem from becoming a musical distraction.

theproaudiofiles.com/vocal-sibilance/

Very interesting read. I have found in practice that it is very difficult to deal with and takes a lot of time and effort to really zero in on the right EQ freq. , gain, and bandwidth to eliminate the sibilance without effecting the naturalness of the voice. This technique is easier to do in the studio than at a live event......IMHO.