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Post by briank on Feb 3, 2013 19:08:17 GMT -5
I played the Norah Jones song Chuckie recommended and I hear the potential for sibilance with the lyrics but nothing that I would consider sibilance problems in the recording. And my playback is very detailed so I don't think my gear is covering up or smoothing over any sibilance issues. I recorded it with my iPhone and I'm downloading it now. I'll post it when done downloading.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Feb 3, 2013 19:18:15 GMT -5
Whoops, I've got to go. I have to sing the National Anthem at 6;30PM. Beyonce called in sick. Looks like Alicia Keys handled it for you Chuckie, and I thought she did a great job, sorry though if it spoiled your SuperBowl debut, maybe you can still get in the half time show.  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2013 19:28:10 GMT -5
Meh, Alicia did what *everyone* seems to do now when singing our National Anthem - she butchered it by adding her own personaliztion of it. I long for the daze when the singers got up there and sung the song as it was written...
-RW-
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Post by villock on Feb 3, 2013 19:32:19 GMT -5
Meh, Alicia did what *everyone* seems to do now when singing our National Anthem - she butchered it by adding her own personaliztion of it. I long for the daze when the singers got up there and sung the song as it was written... -RW- Completely agree |
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Post by monkumonku on Feb 3, 2013 20:06:10 GMT -5
Meh, Alicia did what *everyone* seems to do now when singing our National Anthem - she butchered it by adding her own personaliztion of it. I long for the daze when the singers got up there and sung the song as it was written... -RW- Completely agree Question is, when they sing the National Anthem, for the singer is it "all about me" or is it all about honoring their country? |
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Post by briank on Feb 3, 2013 20:06:14 GMT -5
Here's the Norah Jones song that Chuckie suggested. Sounds a lot better in person but I think you can tell enough that there's not really any sibilance issues in the recording, just the normal "sss" sounds of her singing, nothing emphasized or sounding abbynormal. Someone wanna post an XPA-5 playing the same song?
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Post by weird23 on Feb 3, 2013 20:58:49 GMT -5
What album is that from?
Don't have much Norah Jones and don't really listen to her music. If I have it I'll post a video.
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Post by briank on Feb 3, 2013 21:08:30 GMT -5
What album is that from? Don't have much Norah Jones and don't really listen to her music. If I have it I'll post a video. The album is "Come away with me". Track 14 Wish I could do a better recording. The sound level distorts the phone mic . |
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Post by villock on Feb 3, 2013 21:28:06 GMT -5
What album is that from? Don't have much Norah Jones and don't really listen to her music. If I have it I'll post a video. The album is "Come away with me". Track 14 Wish I could do a better recording. The sound level distorts the phone mic . I just played it. Very sibilant on my system. I have an iphone and will try to get it posted |
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Post by audiohead on Feb 3, 2013 21:53:27 GMT -5
Just for grins, I cranked my XPA-5 up to 68 on the UMC-1 display. I did this with the Oppo 93 in-circuit but with nothing playing. If it was playing, the SPLs woulda been thunderous, probably around 110db. And all I heard was dead silence, no system hiss whatsoever. My Gallos are 89db efficient. The XPA-5 is one *quiet* amp, that's for sure... -RW- +1.. |
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Post by Gary Cook on Feb 3, 2013 23:39:43 GMT -5
My guess is the sibilance is in the source, the XPA-5 reproduces it whereas the Butler supresses it. I have no experience with Butler equipment, but the REM DVD-A is known to have noticeable sibiliance. As for Parasound, in the 90's I used to bump into a lot of Parasound gear and they had a reputation for suppressing sibiliance. If I remember rightly there was a Orban Parasound Sibilance Controller used in recording studios, I wondered at the time if it was the same company.
Cheers
Gary
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Post by briank on Feb 3, 2013 23:41:43 GMT -5
What's funny is when I was recording I didn't notice the sibilance much at all but when I play it back through the computer speakers there's more sibilance present. There's definitely a little in the recording but not what I would consider excessive or destracting. It'll be interesting to see how prominant or not prominant the sibilance is in other peoples videos.
Here's a little better recording of the same song. I cleaned the pocket fuzz out of my phone's mic this time. lol
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Post by villock on Feb 4, 2013 0:02:35 GMT -5
Brian if you have The Who's Who By Numbers try Blue, Red and Grey and see if it is sibilant on your system. The entire song is sibilant to me.
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Post by briank on Feb 4, 2013 0:14:11 GMT -5
Brian if you have The Who's Who By Numbers try Blue, Red and Grey and see if it is sibilant on your system. The entire song is sibilant to me. I like The Who but unfortunately I don't have one of their cd's.  |
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Post by Dark Ranger on Feb 4, 2013 0:50:25 GMT -5
I queued up "The Nearness of You" that Brian demoed. While I don't have an XPA-5, I do have an XPA-200.
On my system, there is no harsh sibilance to my ears, and I'm extremely sensitive to that effect. All the "s" sounds are there, but they are neither emphasized nor do they stand out. It is completely listenable even at higher volumes.
In my experience, sibilance is mainly found in two places: the recording and the playback loudspeaker. Some female vocals have more energy in the high frequencies to begin with, not to mention the effects from all the digital processing and compression often found in modern records. My Sarah Brightman albums are a good example of this and her voice comes across as one of the most sibilant I've ever heard. Unfortunately, I've never met her in person to hear her "real" voice as a comparison. In contrast, Heidi Talbot / Willie Taylor (track 4) on the Emotiva sampler disc 2 is a great example of a non-sibilant voice IMO. It sounds completely natural to me, like a voice would be in real-life.
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stiehl11
Emo VIPs 
Give me available light!
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Post by stiehl11 on Feb 4, 2013 1:01:06 GMT -5
Operatic style signers (even when they are singing pop tunes) are very hard to record with a hot mic which is one reason you may get a lot of sibilance with her disc as opposed to Heidi Talbot.
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Post by weird23 on Feb 4, 2013 1:29:51 GMT -5
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Feb 4, 2013 2:16:13 GMT -5
There are lots of ways of measuring speakers, so it's difficult to say with finality which ones are flatter (one speaker may have a flatter early-arrival frequency response, while another may have a flatter power response, and even that will depend on how you perform the measurements). Butler's description of their amplifier design is .... interesting  They use a triode driver and a solid state output stage. They also make a point of the fact that they run their triodes up near their saturation point... From that, and the rest of the description (minus the "colorful language"), it seems that their design goal was to run the tube right at the point where it is starting to distort. Now, one of the characteristics that tube lovers love about tubes is what's called a "monotonic distortion curve". What this means is that the distortion on the average tube power amp increases gradually as the output power goes up. Since most humans perceive a slight increase in distortion as increased loudness, this gradually increasing distortion provides the illusion of greater dynamic range (it acts like "a virtual psycho-acoustic dynamic range expander"). Because of this, a typical tube amplifier, right at the beginning of distortion, but not clipping, can make the music it is playing sound more dynamic. Many people also "hear" increasing levels of second-harmonic distortion (which is what tubes favor) as "sounding liquid" or "warmth" or "musicality". Butler's design lets their tube add some of this distortion (but only a little) to the sound of their amplifier. [Most better solid state amplifiers, including ours, don't make ANY audible distortion right up to the point where they clip, and so don't alter the sound until that point.] From their description, Butler very carefully runs their triode right at the point where it is starting to distort, so as to capitalize on this effect, while avoiding excessive distortion. If you like "tube sound" but want to avoid most of the limitations and drawbacks of tubes, this sounds like a good way to go about it. Just be clear that they ARE changing the sound. ;D I've been using my XPA-5 for about a week to power my system, it's the first time I've used it to power anything other than the surrounds. I have noticed a bit of sibilance as well, I have also noticed that a bit with my XPA-1's as well. Not sure how much of it is the amp or the source material though. I think I'll be trying out the XPR series the next time they go on sale, I am intrigued by the XPA-1L as well. Decisions, decisions. For me it was as simple as getting a different amp/speaker combination. Some speakers are brighter sounding although they mostly measure pretty flat. Same with some amps I guess. I'm curious to see if the XPR amps have the same Emotiva house sound. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2013 2:19:25 GMT -5
OK folks maybe I have a semantic misunderstanding of the word sibilance.
When I play that track on good speakers, my ERM-1 and Airmotiv4's, I clearly hear the "essy" sound in her voice. I'm not in this case talking about the recording process but the natural "essyness" of her sexy voice. In "The Nearness of You" I clearly hear her little extra S sound more than most vocalist. I hear it in "excites" "thrills" "nearness" and "sweet" etc. I thought that was what folks were talking about and thought her slightly excessive essyness was exaggerated by the amp. If I'm on the wrong track here please let me know. Can someone here who hears the sibilance they refer to that they attribute to the XPA-5 please give a few examples with track and time listings so we can check it out.
BTW, I'm an old fart and grew up with the music of many famous old farts like Hoagy Carmichael, who wrote and sang (on TV --- black and white) The Nearness of You. He also wrote Georgia on my Mind, Stardust and many more. Norah's version is one of the finest covers I have ever heard. Imagine her late at night in a classy hotel bar over in the corner on the piano (those were the good old days). This track might sound boring to the young set but it is a magnificent version. Norah is so talented, I wish she would do an album of the old favorites like Willy Nelson did years ago. She is in the class of the best female jazz performers ever IMO.
(sorry, couldn't find the original of The Nearness of You)
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Post by briank on Feb 4, 2013 7:21:38 GMT -5
Sounds very good. I don't really hear any "excessive" sibilance in that recording. Sounds like what I would expect to hear if Norah was singing those lyrics live. Most excessive sibilance issues I've heard in the past were from hot tweeters or silver coated speaker cables. I never noticed any sibilance issues when I previously owned the XPA-5. This may be more of an opinion issue as to what sounds like excessive or un-natural sibilance. Maybe the slight Butler tube distortion was masking it previously??? |
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