Would you buy an entry-level tube preamp.....?

[KeithL]

Anyone who follows the tube audio scene knows that you can buy cheap tube equipment from unknown vendors on eBay and other such places; some of it good, some of it not so good, and most of it without much of a warranty unless you're willing to pay shipping back to someone you've never heard of in Hong Kong. Some of it sounds pretty good, but some of it sounds downright horrible... and how can you tell until after you pay for it, and then wait... and wait... and wait... for it to show up?

We're curious to know how much interest there would be in a simple but high quality entry-level tube preamp from a reputable local vendor (yeah, us ).....

This would be a sort of a "starter system" for folks who aren't quite ready to take the plunge and invest in high-end tube equipment, but want to "dip their toe in" and see what tubes sound like, and what all the hoopla is about. No frills, and not too many features, but good build quality, and good vacuum tube sound; at a reasonable price.

So, if we make one, would you buy it?

What features do you consider really necessary, and what would you be willing to spend to get them?

Would you want to roll your own tubes, or would you want us to pick out good ones for you, or both?

Do you like a certain type of tube, or a certain tube number?

Do you prefer NOS tubes, or modern Russian ones, or other modern ones?

What kind of equipment would you be planning to use it with?

This thread is a totally open forum for us to collect your thoughts on this question. (We're not promising to build everything you ask for, and we're not interested in settling "arguments" about what's better or worse, although you may get to hear an opinion or two along the way.) We also MIGHT answer occasional tube-related questions on this thread, but no promises there either. We figure on mostly just listening to what YOU have to say.

[hemster]

Ooh, ooh, now you're talking!

I'm in that category - not quite ready to invest substantially but want to dip my toe in the waters.

I'd want the option to have Emo pick the tubes but also upgrade them if I decide to. Don't care where they're made so long as they're not too expensive.

Oh and I would love a remote control for it!

[Axis]

me

[garbulky]

I would want to buy it but probably won't as I want my next amp to be more powerful than what I've got. Want a remote, and ability to roll tubes.

[arthurz]

No interest in another preamp, but I'd love a simple tube buffer that would be a companion to the XSP-1 (through the proc loop). I imagine it's a perfect solution for a lot of people.

[1960broookwood]

I just bought a Dynaco PAS3 and Dynakit 70 modded with all the "tubes 4 hifi" upgrades from a hobbyist that was stepping up.

These things are like an old snowmobile--swamp buggy if you are closer to Collier County--they go like he!! when they run but you work on them as much as you use them

I would buy in a heartbeat if the price was right--and let me roll to my hearts content as long as you are offering some options.

I'm running mine with both old school speakers and current supertowers--and the combo of tube midrange with kickass solid state lower/sub range is something special.

[Boomzilla]

Yes, Keith -

Despite the fact that I just purchased a "Hong Kong special," I'd be VERY interested.

To make the preamp of greater value, please eschew the use of surface-mount parts. Leaving full-size components available to users encourages "hot rodding." Of course, this voids our warranty, but that's less for Emotiva to deal with. Because any such preamp will be such a desirable mod unit for users, consider omitting the typical Emotiva 5-year transferrable warranty. A 30-day warranty is sufficient.

If you REALLY want to sell millions, then offer the preamp in kit form as well. "The Dynaco PAS for the twenty-first century" is what I have in mind. The base preamp needs to be offered as a line stage only with an output buffer stage to offer low-impedance drive for any amplifier (tube or solid state) on the market.

Now - the tricky part. For the preamp to be as versatile as possible, you'll need to leave some "open bays" with a plug-in buss for optional, user-installable modules. You'll also have to make the power supply robust enough to power said modules. The modules that would be of interest include:

Phono section - configurable for input resistance and several gain settings
Plug-in DAC module - with TOSLINK, digital RCA, & USB inputs
Tone controls - for those who want them
Bass-management card - with variable crossover & adjustable relative levels for low & high pass
HT-bypass card - for those who want stereo and AV
Processor loop card - for those who still record
TACT stereo room correction card - for stereo room management

The items I've mentioned require some additional engineering, and may not fit with your concept of an entry-level preamp. The versatility added, though, would make for a FAR more universal preamp. License the buss design to third parties and let THEM engineer the optional cards. If you sell enough of the base preamp, then the third-party cards will multiply like rabbits.

For the entry-level preamp (with no options), a price of under $450 would be a hit, but $300 or less would ensure a HUGE and immediate demand.

You can leave tubes to the owner, or offer a selection designed to work with the preamp. Many of us have closets of NOS tubes that we'd love to find a home for. Offer the tube set as an option. Those of us who have tubes (or who prefer to procure our own) can buy the base preamp and add our own tubes.

Of course, the primary goal for the preamp should be "good sound with absolute reliability."

Build it & they'll come!

Cordially - Boomzilla

PS: I forgot to mention it earlier, but the preamp MUST have a remote control for on/off, volume up/down, and input switching.

[GreenKiwi]

Hmmm... Boomzilla I really actually like your thinking with modules. Though this might not be what they are thinking about with an entry level preamp. That being said, I think that it could be very cool if the modules were simply the size of the XPS-1, and just dropped into "inputs" in the back.

Though I'm not sure if it would simply cause more headache's and confusion than it's worth.

For myself, an HT-Bypass would definitely be a feature that I'd want to have. All this being said, my new amps are going to be balanced only so I don't think that an entry level preamp will have balanced outputs... so I'm unfortunately out.

[Boomzilla]

Apr 23, 2013 17:36:24 GMT -5 GreenKiwi said:

Hmmm... Boomzilla I really actually like your thinking with modules...I think that it could be very cool if the modules were simply the size of the XPS-1, and just dropped into "inputs" in the back...

I had in mind a buss like on a PC motherboard where after removing the case, the cards would just plug in, lock in place with a single screw, and just work.

[goldenear2]

Looked at tube preamps last week. ARC really grabbed my attention. But at $8000.00, just a little more than I want to spend.

I'm very interested!!

[emovac]

I like the idea of tubed equipment (preamp/buffer). If Emotiva decides to proceed, my suggestion is that Emotiva have a replacement source for small signal tubes, and stock a supply of them (as well as replacements) for their customers. Some NOS stuff is in limited supply, so designing around a new tube, or very common NOS would be a good way to go.

[Axis]

Keith, Im thinking just a tube version of the USP-1. Just analog with phono preamp and 2.1 bass management.

Would Manual Bias be preferred over Automatic Bias?

Is the ability to tune your tubes with manual bias benefit tube rolling?

P.S. Waiting for Chuck to chime in on this Post.

[Boomzilla]

Apr 23, 2013 17:47:24 GMT -5 Axis said:

Would Manual Bias be preferred over Automatic Bias?

Preamp tubes are typically biased at the factory via resistors without any variable pot to change the tube bias.

[briank]

Emotiva should make a tube integrated amp with phono stage and remote control like the Cayin A55t. That amp plus an Emotiva turntable would make for a simple yet awesome set-up.

www.elusivedisc.com/CAYIN-A-55T-TUBE-INTEGRATED-AMP/productinfo/CAYA55T/

[hemster]

Apr 23, 2013 17:49:21 GMT -5 Boomzilla said:

Apr 23, 2013 17:47:24 GMT -5 Axis said:

Would Manual Bias be preferred over Automatic Bias?

Preamp tubes are typically biased at the factory via resistors without any variable pot to change the tube bias.

I think axis is talking about self-bias versus fixed-bias (aka cathode bias). From a design features standpoint, BOTH design approaches may or may not have user controls provided to adjust circuit parameters, but fixed bias designs typically do have user controls, and cathode biased designs typically do not.

A number of cathode biased amplifiers provide an adjustment pot for adjusting the quiescent current of the output tubes. A Fisher X-100B is an excellent example of this. Conversely, a number of fixed biased amplifiers provide no means for adjusting the quiescent current at all. An early Scott LK-72 is an excellent example of this type of design.

[brubacca]

I would love to see the next generation usp be a tube pre-amp. I joked in another thread the USP-2ube or USP-T. Would like to see pricing about USP level and for me you could lose the bass management. Give me a straight pre-amp w/ phono section and the digital controlled volume from xsp (if that is even possible) would love to see the tubes enclosed, but user replacable. Ht bypass is possible.

I would use it with my xda-1, AM/FM Tuner, iPod and yet unpurchased turntable. Would ideally love to use yet unnamed/unannounced emotiva media player

[focal]

if you want to try, there's some really good headphone amps ....

or you can try this

Carot One FABRIZIOLO 6922 Tube pre-Headphone Amp

I've heard the Carot One with a small D-class amp and it's very nice on a small bookshelf speaker. Costs under $300 for the pre or under $400 for the matching D-class amp

stereophile even mentioned seeing it at various shows www.stereophile.com/content/carot-one-does-everything

[brubacca]

Could you please have it out by Christmas 2013?
Did i say please, please. Please..

[Boomzilla]

If we MUST go minimal, then a line stage only with no bass management and ABSOLUTELY no phono. Make both available as external add-ons if you must. Line stage with remote = $299.

[focal]

or build a nice tube buffer to go between your preamp and amp