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Post by intgenx on Dec 12, 2013 6:29:15 GMT -5
cwt - thanks for that thread... yes... DSD processing and pureDirect would've been nice... and they did clarify that it has 4 DAC chips - but I'm still not 100% certain on the balancing... It would be nice if someone who knows electronics pops the lid up and confirms the topology of the balancing circuits...
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Post by swampfire on Dec 12, 2013 15:30:24 GMT -5
cwt - thanks for that thread... yes... DSD processing and pureDirect would've been nice... intgenx, I think you're overthinking this. Nevertheless: - My PS3 downsamples DSD to PCM for HDMI output. It sounds fine to me (but I cannot tell DSD from PCM).
[Edit: I was wrong; my PS3 was playing the CD layer - d'oh!]
- You can achieve pureDirect by using the 7.1 inputs (even if it's only 2 of them).
[Edit: you also select BYPASS mode with the 2CH button] |
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Post by swampfire on Dec 13, 2013 22:21:24 GMT -5
Wow, I apologize - I had not watched a BluRay movie for more than a few minutes when I wrote this last week. But now that I finally got an evening to sit down and watch a movie, I'm seeing the delay: audio is noticeably lagging video. I never had this problem with my Pioneer SC-05, since it supported HDMI 1.3 auto-audio-synch. Frankly I'm skeptical that this can be fixed, because they either need to slow down the video, or speed up the audio. The PT-7030 can't slow the HDMI video stream, because it doesn't process it. I suppose they could hire a programmer to optimize the HDMI audio processing to speed it up. I hope that's what's happening.
EDIT/UPDATE: I found my Digital Video Essentials disc, and I've proven to myself that video is actually lagging audio, and by less than 1 frame (1/24 of a second). TLDR: There is no A/V sync problem.
Details: I watched "Constantine" with my son, and he couldn't see any lip synch problems at all. We watched the whole movie, and gradually I stopped "seeing" the problem. But who needs perceptions when we have science?! I played the 1080P "A/V Timing" test track from DVE, confirming that the 7030 was decoding TrueHD. I recorded this video and dragged it into PowerDirector, and I can clearly see that the audio waveform starts before the sweep hits the 12:00 position. It's less than half of a frame, 20-40 msec off. This is great news. I can tweak the audio delay for my A/V sources methodically. I will never trust my eyes and ears again! What delay?
I've played a CD, SACD and BluRay in both my Sony PS3 and my Panasonic DMP-BD35 (using HDMI 1). I've skipped tracks and chapters on all of them, and the audio change is instantaneous. Here's my firmware info: Controller: V1.00 Video: V1.01 Scaler: V1.00 Audio: V1.10
Can someone who has observed an "audio delay" please check your firmware versions against these? I have the same versions but I experience delays with all digital sources (HDMI, Toslink, Coax) It happens with any source or input that I use...CD Player, Blu-ray, antenna, music streaming, etc. I am still waiting for the firmware that is supposed to fix this.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2013 22:47:44 GMT -5
I am still waiting for the firmware update...who knows how long it will be but this was Andrew's quote on October 28, 2013
"Yes, we're working on an update that will address the delay. No ETA on when it will be ready but we can address it."
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Post by cwt on Dec 13, 2013 23:39:02 GMT -5
You can achieve pureDirect by using the 7.1 inputs (even if it's only 2 of them). [/li][/ul] [Edit: you also select BYPASS mode with the 2CH button] [/quote] Well spotted swampfire ; yes no direct mode on hdmi or sp/dif [ no great loss] but the option is there on analog where it makes more sense - absolutely no clue in the manual as too all the available modes with different inputs  In any case this gave me the incentive to get off my duff and hook up the multi analog inputs to my custom analog modded oppo 83 and voila dsd 5.1 direct multichannel was successful [not just 2ch as the manual mentions briefly on bypass mode ] Would urge others to try this as Chad said ; tried Elton Johns yellow brick road sacd and cant imagine it sounding better |
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Post by rolling01au on Dec 14, 2013 1:14:36 GMT -5
Do you know what's up with a fix for this? I may have to send my 7030 back; this is a showstopper for me. I have the same versions but I experience delays with all digital sources (HDMI, Toslink, Coax) It happens with any source or input that I use...CD Player, Blu-ray, antenna, music streaming, etc. I am still waiting for the firmware that is supposed to fix this. Good luck with that, "All sales final" with the 7030. Agree delay not acceptable but if rotel couldn't fix their delay then there's no hope for the 7030. |
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Post by audiofile on Dec 14, 2013 1:15:54 GMT -5
You can adjust the "delay" in the Settings menu.
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Post by rolling01au on Dec 14, 2013 1:22:35 GMT -5
You can adjust the "delay" in the Settings menu. It's a different delay,not audio sync. |
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Post by intgenx on Dec 14, 2013 13:57:02 GMT -5
The reasons for my hesitation have just been compounded - after seeing your posts... and in my particular case... the shipping alone will be $220 and the duty possibly another $200... neither of which are refundable
and if for some reason I do have to ship it back... and when they send it back... the duty is payable again...
I'm gonna wait a while to see if Emotiva can fully confirm if the DAC output is balanced and if it is maintained throughout the line stage to the XLR... instead of just connecting it as you would an RCA to XLR jack...
If the DAC and balancing has been done somewhat properly - I'd still go for the PT-7030 - as its an unbeatable value... without the balanced outputs I can't justify even a penny on this.
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Post by swampfire on Dec 14, 2013 14:49:49 GMT -5
Sorry for the double-post, but this is important (I edited my original post too):
I found my Digital Video Essentials disc, and I've proven to myself that video is actually lagging audio, and by less than 1 frame (1/24 of a second). TLDR: There is no A/V sync problem.
Details: I watched "Constantine" with my son, and he couldn't see any lip synch problems at all. We watched the whole movie, and gradually I stopped "seeing" the problem. But who needs perceptions when we have science?! I played the 1080P "A/V Timing" test track from DVE, confirming that the 7030 was decoding TrueHD. I recorded this video and dragged it into PowerDirector, and I can clearly see that the audio waveform starts before the sweep hits the 12:00 position. It's less than half of a frame, 20-40 msec off. This is great news. I can tweak the audio delay for my A/V sources methodically.
I will never trust my eyes and ears again!
Update: I found that lip sync is perfect with the delay set to 35 msec (your setting will vary, obviously). I also discovered that you don't have to go into the setup menu to play with the delay. Just press the "SPKR" button on the remote, and click right until you see "Group Delay". Then click up or down to change the value. I'm pretty sure that in order to make that value "stick", you need to go into the menu - but it's really nice to be able to adjust it "on the fly" to experiment.
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Post by rolling01au on Dec 14, 2013 23:16:43 GMT -5
Update: I found that lip sync is perfect with the delay set to 35 msec (your setting will vary, obviously). I also discovered that you don't have to go into the setup menu to play with the delay. Just press the "SPKR" button on the remote, and click right until you see "Group Delay". Then click up or down to change the value. I'm pretty sure that in order to make that value "stick", you need to go into the menu - but it's really nice to be able to adjust it "on the fly" to experiment. That does nothing to help the 1-2 seconds of NO sound only video when you skip forward. Its fine for watching movies as you don't skip but very annoying skipping songs on blu ray concerts and cd's. btw I've never had a lip sync issue.
On another note does anyone hear a "click" every now and then? maybe 1 every hour or so.
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Post by intgenx on Dec 15, 2013 13:59:56 GMT -5
Folks... I'm really hoping someone could put this balanced output thing to rest...
All I need to know if the DAC's balanced output is carried as such through-out to the XLR jack,.. or if its treated as unbalanced and at the final point sent to RCA and parallelly connected as an RCA-XLR output connection...
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Post by audiofile on Dec 15, 2013 15:52:25 GMT -5
You can adjust the "delay" in the Settings menu. It's a different delay,not audio sync. I used the wrong word, obviously. I meant the synch feature. What I found was mine didn't need to be adjusted for any input. What I did find was that I was experiencing a dropout of audio (2 - 4 seconds) as codecs switched from one to another when watching TV via the cable box, say when regular programming dropped off to a commercial then back again. Fixed it with a simple setting change in the cable box. Audio output in that box was changed from "Auto" to "PCM". No more dropouts. I was also experiencing audio and video dropouts when switched to the DVD source, regardless of whether it was a DVD or streaming from one of the services. Since the problem hadn't existed before I swapped in the PT-7030 I surmised there was a handshake issue. Actually, it the pre/pro didn't like the HDMI cable I was using (too cheap I guess) so I upgraded the cable and the problem went away. I've moved on to finishing my cable upgrade in this system so I can start playing with the parametric EQ settings. I'm excited to get there and give the Sherbourn and my XPA-1's the opportunity to compliment my new to me Aerial Acoustic 8 speakers.  |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2013 18:53:06 GMT -5
Hey Andrew / Keith,
Just following up on the post from Andrew in October where we were told a firmware update was coming for the 7030 that would fix the audio delay issues...any idea when we could expect this?
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Post by swampfire on Dec 18, 2013 22:33:57 GMT -5
What I did find was that I was experiencing a dropout of audio (2 - 4 seconds) as codecs switched from one to another when watching TV via the cable box, say when regular programming dropped off to a commercial then back again. Fixed it with a simple setting change in the cable box. Audio output in that box was changed from "Auto" to "PCM". No more dropouts. I use PCM, and for me the dropout issue only happens with 2 Channel PCM. I actually hadn't experienced this until tonight, because I had "DTS: Neo6" enabled on my Sony BDP-S590 (so even CDs were playing multichannel). Tonight I decided I wanted to hear pure stereo, so I turned that off. The PT-7030 obligingly switched to "PCM 2CH", and now I'm finally hearing the same issue as everyone else (the first second of a song is dropped when skipping). Here are all my data points: Bluray (multichannel): "Jimi Hendrix Live at Monterey" - no audio dropouts when skipping. AppleTV as AirPlay target (2 channel, 48k) - dropout
DVD Audio of "Yes - Fragile": - Dolby Multichannel - no dropout
- DTS Multichannel - no dropout
- DTS Stereo (48k) - dropout
Multichannel SACD: "Land of Giants" (McCoy Tyner) - no dropout
Has anyone had the audio dropout issue with anything but stereo sources? If so, try choosing "PCM" on your source and let us know if that fixes it.
By the way, the "dropout on skip" doesn't bother me all that much. What bothers me a little is that the first song I play gets cut off. |
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Post by audiofile on Dec 18, 2013 23:07:32 GMT -5
No dropouts on 2-channel at my end. I guess I'm one of the lucky ones. My setup is:
NAS > Ethernet > Streamer > DAC > Sherbourn > Amps > Speakers
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Post by intgenx on Dec 18, 2013 23:49:33 GMT -5
Folks,
The mystery surrounding the "balanced output" on the PT-7030 has finally been resolved
The question I have to ask now is: Does the same apply to the other processors in the price-range - Onkyo PR-SC5509/Integra DHC80.3 and Marantz AV7701/AV8801?
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Post by swampfire on Dec 19, 2013 13:55:16 GMT -5
No dropouts on 2-channel at my end. I guess I'm one of the lucky ones. My setup is: NAS > Ethernet > Streamer > DAC > Sherbourn > Amps > Speakers I would not expect audio dropouts with analog input.  |
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Post by intgenx on Dec 21, 2013 1:13:03 GMT -5
Folks, If anyone is looking to sell their PT-7030 - pl. PM me.
I'm looking to buy urgently and would prefer to take a pre-owned to save-up for some room treatments...
not sure if its ok to make a post like this... pl. let me know... and I will edit the post
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Post by sebastianr on Dec 21, 2013 7:07:08 GMT -5
Hello,
So far, I really love my PT-7030 processor. The audio drop out on CD's only happens when the disc starts and not when I skip tracks. I do get a brief audio drop when I start a bluray but it is hardly noticeable. I do not get a drop out with the TV satellite box changing channels or anything. It is a pretty solid unit. The sound from this thing is amazing, and I just love it. The analog is beautiful! Even my wife, who could care less about all this stuff has said that now the theater really sounds great (and she was so dead set against me buying anything new!). I did have a problem in the beginning because I couldn't get the processor to display on its front panel DTS-HD Master or Dolby True HD no matter how I configured my Oppo or PT-7030. It took a couple of emails to the Emotiva help desk to figure out that my Oppo had its "secondary audio" switched to "on". Once I switched it to "off", everything was as it should be. Now the PT-7030 displays on its front panel the lossless audio codecs.
I am so very pleased I was able to purchase mine. The matching PA 7-350 amplifier makes my speakers sing! This is my first try with using separates and I am so happy with the performance.
Cheers,
Paul
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