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Post by frosty on Aug 5, 2013 16:55:39 GMT -5
Hi everyone.
I just ordered an A-100 the other day. Should be here later this week. It will be performing fill in duty while my Peachtree Decco 65 is in for repair. Bad USB input it seems.
I will be using it to drive a pair of Focal 807w bookshelves, and an old Velodyne VX11 sub. Volume stays at a moderate level to stay in the good graces of the neighbors. Any thoughts on what kind of performance I can expect with this setup?
Im hoping that the A-100 can give the Decco a run for its money. Love underdogs. As it only seems to be rated 15 watts less, I'm wondering how much of a sq difference to expect between the RCA in on the Decco and the Mini.
Thanks!
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Post by Darksky on Aug 5, 2013 19:15:22 GMT -5
I have one of these amps and am going to put it in service driving small bookshelves soon. I believe it to be a great little amp.
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Post by frosty on Aug 8, 2013 9:52:18 GMT -5
Dial is at 12 on the mini. At about 75% volume on my MacBook Pro. The sound is harsh and fatiguing at this point.
Gotta call it for what it is.
At lower volumes the sound is seemingly more detailed then the Peachtree or the Sony I was using as a stand in before the mini arrived. Percussion/hats/cymbals stand out more then usual. Attention grabbing, in fact. However, at moderate volumes the sibilance is brutal.
I'm now wondering if the amp is simply highlighting how bad the MBP's internal dac is. I've never known it to be that bad though as I used to have various powered monitors that I hooked up to it and they sounded fine. I suspect that I really am missing the sound of the Sabre Dac in the Peachtree unit, though.
Oddly enough I did not notice this being an issue on the Sony unit.
Going to run it for a few days straight to see if things smooth out. Might add a Dragonfly to the chain to see if that resolves anything.
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igor
Minor Hero
Posts: 95
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Post by igor on Aug 8, 2013 10:00:48 GMT -5
Dial is at 12 on the mini. At about 75% volume on my MacBook Pro. The sound is harsh and fatiguing at this point. Gotta call it for what it is. At lower volumes the sound is seemingly more detailed then the Peachtree or the Sony I was using as a stand in before the mini arrived. Percussion/hats/cymbals stand out more then usual. Attention grabbing, in fact. However, at moderate volumes the sibilance is brutal. I'm now wondering if the amp is simply highlighting how bad the MBP's internal dac is. I've never known it to be that bad though as I used to have various powered monitors that I hooked up to it and they sounded fine. I suspect that I really am missing the sound of the Sabre Dac in the Peachtree unit, though. Oddly enough I did not notice this being an issue on the Sony unit. Going to run it for a few days straight to see if things smooth out. Might add a Dragonfly to the chain to see if that resolves anything. I don't know anything about the mac, mini or the sound, but generally you want 100% in the computer for best signal out from it, and then adjust the volume on the mini. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Aug 8, 2013 10:07:54 GMT -5
Might also try the MBP digital volume @ 100% and turn the mini down, at least that way you'll be hearing the combo in it's best light.
Edit: Oops Igor beat me to it.
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Post by frosty on Aug 8, 2013 15:35:33 GMT -5
Problem is that there is no remote for the mini so I need to manage the volume through the computer. I suppose I can use the controller apps for the programs that I'm using to play music.
I'm really wondering how much the dac has to do with it. Running pink noise through while I'm at work. Hopefully there is some change by tomorrow.
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Post by frosty on Aug 9, 2013 16:05:52 GMT -5
Edge seems to be coming off a bit. Percussion is still the champ, even after adding an AQ Dragonfly into the mix. High frequencies seem to be way more out front then everything else. The detail is really quite impressive to be honest. I am definitely hearing things in songs that I did not hear before, like plucked strings and such. I can almost visualize the guitar players hands as they play. Pretty cool.
Bass seems to be under control, though not as punch as I would like. I felt that was an issue with the Decco 65 as well, though. Could just be my gear or the room acoustics (which are horrible). Reduced the boomy ness of the sub by moving it, but I still feel like there is detail being left on the table. Likely that the sub itself is the culprit.
Signal chain is as follows:
iPad Mini > MacBook Pro (via Reflection App) > AQ Dragonfly > A-100 > 807w / VX-11
Side note: this hobby is addictive. Seems like a lot of fun trying to find great deals like the mini though. I will report back in about a week to give everything sufficient time to burn in.
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Post by mshump on Aug 10, 2013 6:02:56 GMT -5
Dial is at 12 on the mini. At about 75% volume on my MacBook Pro. The sound is harsh and fatiguing at this point. Gotta call it for what it is. At lower volumes the sound is seemingly more detailed then the Peachtree or the Sony I was using as a stand in before the mini arrived. Percussion/hats/cymbals stand out more then usual. Attention grabbing, in fact. However, at moderate volumes the sibilance is brutal. I'm now wondering if the amp is simply highlighting how bad the MBP's internal dac is. I've never known it to be that bad though as I used to have various powered monitors that I hooked up to it and they sounded fine. I suspect that I really am missing the sound of the Sabre Dac in the Peachtree unit, though. Oddly enough I did not notice this being an issue on the Sony unit. Going to run it for a few days straight to see if things smooth out. Might add a Dragonfly to the chain to see if that resolves anything. I am running a set of Focal 714's with Pc based Jriver,XDA2,USP-1,UPA-200, The upper end will drive you out of the room with Harshness. I have spent many hours adjusting my speakers with placement, My room is only 13x15 and also serves as an office so placement is less than ideal, but I have found about 1-1.5 feet from the wall and about 8 feet apart and quite a bit of toe in they seem to work great. What I have found out most IMHO is there seems to be a magical volume level area that does good and also my source material. My high res music like mofi, sounds great. I also have a turntable and the harshness is gone when I use it I think the Focals are extremely accurate but they are as you stated in one of your posts the upper end is very forward. I tried a sub with my set-up and it seemed the Focals were more harsh. Without the sub the speakers seem more balanced. I am finally to the point i am enjoying this set-up. |
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Post by novisnick on Aug 10, 2013 9:39:29 GMT -5
Dial is at 12 on the mini. At about 75% volume on my MacBook Pro. The sound is harsh and fatiguing at this point. Gotta call it for what it is. At lower volumes the sound is seemingly more detailed then the Peachtree or the Sony I was using as a stand in before the mini arrived. Percussion/hats/cymbals stand out more then usual. Attention grabbing, in fact. However, at moderate volumes the sibilance is brutal. I'm now wondering if the amp is simply highlighting how bad the MBP's internal dac is. I've never known it to be that bad though as I used to have various powered monitors that I hooked up to it and they sounded fine. I suspect that I really am missing the sound of the Sabre Dac in the Peachtree unit, though. Oddly enough I did not notice this being an issue on the Sony unit. Going to run it for a few days straight to see if things smooth out. Might add a Dragonfly to the chain to see if that resolves anything. I am running a set of Focal 714's with Pc based Jriver,XDA2,USP-1,UPA-200, The upper end will drive you out of the room with Harshness. I have spent many hours adjusting my speakers with placement, My room is only 13x15 and also serves as an office so placement is less than ideal, but I have found about 1-1.5 feet from the wall and about 8 feet apart and quite a bit of toe in they seem to work great. What I have found out most IMHO is there seems to be a magical volume level area that does good and also my source material. My high res music like mofi, sounds great. I also have a turntable and the harshness is gone when I use it I think the Focals are extremely accurate but they are as you stated in one of your posts the upper end is very forward. I tried a sub with my set-up and it seemed the Focals were more harsh. Without the sub the speakers seem more balanced. I am finally to the point i am enjoying this set-up. |
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Post by garbulky on Aug 10, 2013 13:43:33 GMT -5
Dial is at 12 on the mini. At about 75% volume on my MacBook Pro. The sound is harsh and fatiguing at this point. Gotta call it for what it is. Well what you could call it at that point is honestly calling an $1 onboard computer soundcard not very good. Glad you got the chance to try with the dragonfly. I'm sorry the sound is still too forward. I got the chance to try the mini-x vs the xpa-2 in a large living room and Deftech 65 bookshelves and the sound was as a balanced vs the other two (NAD and crown amps) we tried and sounded identical to the xpa-2 for me. However the person that owned them told me that it sounds that way within its modest volume range and we were running it at modest to slightly loud so there's that. Why don't you post a picture of your setup (while showing us the room) and maybe we could give you suggestions. THe first I would suggest is to spread those speakers as widely apart as possible but not too close to any walls. Then try to sit as far back as possible while not being close to the rear wall. Then experiment tons with toe in and speaker placements. Usually too much toe in gives a sharp/unnatural treble and a soundstage that appears centered right on the center while too little makes it sound vague and unfocused with instruments not easily localized. Too close to the wall - boomy bass, muddiness in soundstage. Self- too close to speakers - lack of coherent soundstage (center, left, right little in between), speakers are localized. Too far - a big center image but soundstage isn't wide enough. In real-life there is no such thing as too far just not enough distance between speakers. Speakers too close together. Music sounds like the ycome from speakers no proper wide stereo field. SPeakers too far apart - well it lacks impact, some treble, and "life" - depends on your speakers. In any room, room treatments should help. I've tried them and they made a difference and the friend who uses the same ones felt it makes a noticeable difference for him too. |
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Post by frosty on Aug 10, 2013 18:21:41 GMT -5
Hi garbulky, thanks for the reply. To be honest, everything is sounding much sweeter already. I moved my sub which cleaned up some of the boomy bass that I was getting. The VX-11 seems to be earning its keep for now. As for the speakers, they sound WAY better now that I'm feeding some higher quality music through. Very Impressed with the whole setup. More then what I need in my current space. My room is a bit of an acoustical nightmare though....  Attachment DeletedHonestly, it sounds REALLY good. Crystal clear highs, taught bass, and the vocals. I listened to a few songs with my eyes closed, and at the conclusion of those songs I was waiting for the applause to start. Thing is, they were not live tracks. Gave me the shivers. It's going to be interesting when the Peachtree gets back, and I can't help but wonder what it would all sound like in a better space. I also can't believe that I was considering selling the 807w's. Huge mistake that would have been. |
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Post by Darksky on Aug 11, 2013 1:40:44 GMT -5
I have found that my 836V speakers require a lot of toe in as well. I too, feel that poor source material is really exposed in my setup.
I would suggest you experiment with removing the tweeter cover from your speakers. It is only held in place by friction and can easily be removed and replaced. Just straighten a paper clip and form a small hook at the end, slip it into the center of the grille and hook it through one of the holes. Gently pull and it will slip right out without any trauma. (If you don't notice any difference, you can simply push it back into place.)
As far as subs, I am using two Rythmik15s and really like the way they integrate into my system. I would recommend setting your processor to "small speakers" set the crossover to 60 (initially, you can tweak it up and down as suits you later). Then, put on a familiar track, turn your sub up until you can definitely hear it, re-listen and turn it down until it "just" disappears. Note the position of the setting
Turn the sub off and re-listen to the track. Turn it back on and lightly bump the sub's volume up. Listen to the track, then turn the sub off again. Repeat until you can't discern that the sub is playing, but you can tell that there is something missing when it is turned off.
I found that this resulted in my being happiest with my setup. YMMV, but it worked for me.
Bradley
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Post by garbulky on Aug 11, 2013 1:59:56 GMT -5
Hi garbulky, thanks for the reply. To be honest, everything is sounding much sweeter already. I moved my sub which cleaned up some of the boomy bass that I was getting. The VX-11 seems to be earning its keep for now. As for the speakers, they sound WAY better now that I'm feeding some higher quality music through. Very Impressed with the whole setup. More then what I need in my current space. My room is a bit of an acoustical nightmare though.... View AttachmentView AttachmentHonestly, it sounds REALLY good. Crystal clear highs, taught bass, and the vocals. I listened to a few songs with my eyes closed, and at the conclusion of those songs I was waiting for the applause to start. Thing is, they were not live tracks. Gave me the shivers. It's going to be interesting when the Peachtree gets back, and I can't help but wonder what it would all sound like in a better space. I also can't believe that I was considering selling the 807w's. Huge mistake that would have been. Glad to hear it sounds great. You're right, your room is definitely tough to handle. I actually used to run my system in nearly that exact type of room and I had some trouble. 1. The mini-x imo is plenty for that size room. Unless you change rooms I wouldn't worry. 2. For that type of room, room treatments, bass traps etc would make a huge difference. I suggest you start a thread, post those pictures of your room and see what suggestions can be got for room treatments. There's lots of people that have figured this stuff out on the forums. I feel the imrpovement would be almost like you got a new speaker system, amp and DAC - that much! Definitely worth your money  3. For now, try pulling the speakers away from the backwall a bit and see how that sounds. You may need to toe them in or reduce the distance between them to make them sound decent because of how much closer it may be to you. 4. If you have any kind of carpet wall-to-wall is the best, that should significantly with floor bounce and reverberations. |
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Post by Darksky on Aug 11, 2013 2:16:57 GMT -5
I have a big area rug in my room. I went to the box store and bought a piece of carpet padding, I cut it to about two inches smaller than the rug all the way around and put it under the rug. To my ears it made a noticeable difference in sound. It made the oriental rug seem more luxurious as well.
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Post by Boomzilla on Aug 11, 2013 5:07:50 GMT -5
Dial is at 12 on the mini. At about 75% volume on my MacBook Pro. The sound is harsh and fatiguing at this point...I'm now wondering if the amp is simply highlighting how bad the MBP's internal dac is...Might add a Dragonfly to the chain to see if that resolves anything. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. First, the DACs in your (and my) MBP are absolutely HORRIBLE. DO NOT compare the sound of the mini to ANYTHING using the built in DAC. Second, the AQ Dragonfly, IMHO, is HIGHLY sensitive to the power supply of the USB port that feeds it. I had my DF plugged into a Macbook with a dead battery. I went through a half-dozen sets of speakers & amps trying to figure out why my sound sucked so badly. If you must use the DF, try plugging it in to a powered USB hub that has a robust power supply of its own. If you can possibly afford anything else, I'd recommend other DACs. Just like the sound of old stereos was limited by the front end phono system, the sound of ANY digital system is limited by the DAC. DON'T skimp on the DAC. The Peachtree has a good one. I'm currently running a Jolida FX tube DAC with good results. I also have a used XDA-1 that I'm happy with. Garbulky, his wife, and I recently listened to some 92dB-efficient speakers with my XPA-2, my Mini-X, and a Crown PS-400. We couldn't tell any difference between the Mini-X and the XPA-2. With harder-to-drive speakers, however, the XPA-2 would have run away with the contest (I speak again from experience having used Thiel 1.5 & 3.6 speakers). I'd wager that with an equivalent DAC, the Mini-X is at least the equal of and maybe better than the Peachtree (but I'm speculating). Please borrow a good DAC and THEN assess the Mini-X. I think you'll be VERY surprised at how good it is. Cordially - Boomzilla (Moniker NOT indicative of listening preferences) |
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Post by frosty on Aug 11, 2013 6:37:35 GMT -5
I have found that my 836V speakers require a lot of toe in as well. I too, feel that poor source material is really exposed in my setup. I would suggest you experiment with removing the tweeter cover from your speakers. It is only held in place by friction and can easily be removed and replaced. Just straighten a paper clip and form a small hook at the end, slip it into the center of the grille and hook it through one of the holes. Gently pull and it will slip right out without any trauma. (If you don't notice any difference, you can simply push it back into place.) As far as subs, I am using two Rythmik15s and really like the way they integrate into my system. I would recommend setting your processor to "small speakers" set the crossover to 60 (initially, you can tweak it up and down as suits you later). Then, put on a familiar track, turn your sub up until you can definitely hear it, re-listen and turn it down until it "just" disappears. Note the position of the setting Turn the sub off and re-listen to the track. Turn it back on and lightly bump the sub's volume up. Listen to the track, then turn the sub off again. Repeat until you can't discern that the sub is playing, but you can tell that there is something missing when it is turned off. I found that this resulted in my being happiest with my setup. YMMV, but it worked for me. Bradley Sound advice on all counts. Took the tweeter covers off long ago, unfortunately damaging one of the tweeters in the process. Sliced right through it. Just got around to ordering a replacement a few days ago from AudioPlus Services. Should be a fun project when it arrives. Did the same thing with the sub, too. It's still got a little thud to it, but it's completely tolerable at this point. I've heard great things about Rythmics. Glad to hear they pair well with Focals! |
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Post by frosty on Aug 11, 2013 6:56:12 GMT -5
Hi garbulky, thanks for the reply. To be honest, everything is sounding much sweeter already. I moved my sub which cleaned up some of the boomy bass that I was getting. The VX-11 seems to be earning its keep for now. As for the speakers, they sound WAY better now that I'm feeding some higher quality music through. Very Impressed with the whole setup. More then what I need in my current space. My room is a bit of an acoustical nightmare though.... Honestly, it sounds REALLY good. Crystal clear highs, taught bass, and the vocals. I listened to a few songs with my eyes closed, and at the conclusion of those songs I was waiting for the applause to start. Thing is, they were not live tracks. Gave me the shivers. It's going to be interesting when the Peachtree gets back, and I can't help but wonder what it would all sound like in a better space. I also can't believe that I was considering selling the 807w's. Huge mistake that would have been. Glad to hear it sounds great. You're right, your room is definitely tough to handle. I actually used to run my system in nearly that exact type of room and I had some trouble. 1. The mini-x imo is plenty for that size room. Unless you change rooms I wouldn't worry. 2. For that type of room, room treatments, bass traps etc would make a huge difference. I suggest you start a thread, post those pictures of your room and see what suggestions can be got for room treatments. There's lots of people that have figured this stuff out on the forums. I feel the imrpovement would be almost like you got a new speaker system, amp and DAC - that much! Definitely worth your money 3. For now, try pulling the speakers away from the backwall a bit and see how that sounds. You may need to toe them in or reduce the distance between them to make them sound decent because of how much closer it may be to you. 4. If you have any kind of carpet wall-to-wall is the best, that should significantly with floor bounce and reverberations. Also great advice. I don't know how high the Gaf would be on that one. She says she likes the look of my speakers, but throwing rugs and styrofoam on the walls might be pushing it. I had the opportunity to hear my speakers in a treated room before purchase and the sound was incredible. A sub will probably be next. That or a tub dac/preamp. I'd like to experiment with tubes for a bit. I'd also like to keep the price in range of the mini. Essentially I'd like to build a tiny system that would compete with the Decco 65 for the price that I paid for it ($640). So far: Mini-X - $189 AQ Dragonfly - $249 Left for Tube Dac/Amp - $200 That mostly leaves headphone Dacs on the table. Might ditch the dragonfly and pick up a Maverick Audio Tubemagic D1 Plus. That would be about $250 and take care of the Dac and Tube portion, putting $250 back on the table as well by returning the Dragonfly. |
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Post by frosty on Aug 11, 2013 7:06:56 GMT -5
Dial is at 12 on the mini. At about 75% volume on my MacBook Pro. The sound is harsh and fatiguing at this point...I'm now wondering if the amp is simply highlighting how bad the MBP's internal dac is...Might add a Dragonfly to the chain to see if that resolves anything. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. First, the DACs in your (and my) MBP are absolutely HORRIBLE. DO NOT compare the sound of the mini to ANYTHING using the built in DAC. Second, the AQ Dragonfly, IMHO, is HIGHLY sensitive to the power supply of the USB port that feeds it. I had my DF plugged into a Macbook with a dead battery. I went through a half-dozen sets of speakers & amps trying to figure out why my sound sucked so badly. If you must use the DF, try plugging it in to a powered USB hub that has a robust power supply of its own. If you can possibly afford anything else, I'd recommend other DACs. Just like the sound of old stereos was limited by the front end phono system, the sound of ANY digital system is limited by the DAC. DON'T skimp on the DAC. The Peachtree has a good one. I'm currently running a Jolida FX tube DAC with good results. I also have a used XDA-1 that I'm happy with. Garbulky, his wife, and I recently listened to some 92dB-efficient speakers with my XPA-2, my Mini-X, and a Crown PS-400. We couldn't tell any difference between the Mini-X and the XPA-2. With harder-to-drive speakers, however, the XPA-2 would have run away with the contest (I speak again from experience having used Thiel 1.5 & 3.6 speakers). I'd wager that with an equivalent DAC, the Mini-X is at least the equal of and maybe better than the Peachtree (but I'm speculating). Please borrow a good DAC and THEN assess the Mini-X. I think you'll be VERY surprised at how good it is. Cordially - Boomzilla (Moniker NOT indicative of listening preferences) What Dac would you recommend in the $450 range? Returning the AQ would move the budget to there. Really looking for something with a tube buffer of some kind, just because the combo as of now can be harsh with lower quality content. Ditching that content is not really an option. You like what you like, ya know? As I said in the prior post, I'd like to build to the same price as I paid for the Decco 65, which was $640. That would be a fair comparison, with the loser getting sold or stored until I have more rooms to use it. This forum is great, btw. Everyone is really helpful. Nice to find a community with fellow music lovers who aren't high on the smell of their own sh!t. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Aug 11, 2013 7:34:51 GMT -5
I'm really happy with my Jolida FX tube DAC. It costs $450 and although it isn't as "tube sounding" as some, it is sweeter to my ears than either the Dragonfly or the XDA-1.
It goes without saying that my advice and a buck will buy a cup of McCoffee, so try to listen before you buy. Were you in the Baton Rouge area, I'd loan you mine to try, but if not...
Happy shopping - Boomzilla
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Post by frosty on Aug 11, 2013 8:10:10 GMT -5
I'm really happy with my Jolida FX tube DAC. It costs $450 and although it isn't as "tube sounding" as some, it is sweeter to my ears than either the Dragonfly or the XDA-1. It goes without saying that my advice and a buck will buy a cup of McCoffee, so try to listen before you buy. Were you in the Baton Rouge area, I'd loan you mine to try, but if not... Happy shopping - Boomzilla Funny you should mention the Jolida. I just bid on one on Audiogon a couple days ago. It was lowball so I don't expect to win it, but it never hurts to try. |
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