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Post by garbulky on Dec 3, 2020 17:15:44 GMT -5
And with the absorbers in place, and using the Black Ice Fusion F11 integrated amp, I'm getting almost "wrap around" effects from stereo speakers. Almost like Q-Sound. The soundstage is >90-degrees from the center. It doesn't wrap fully around the back, but it does go slightly behind me on both sides. I think that Mr. Fozgate DID include some sort of expansion circuit in his F11, so that may have a lot do do with it. Fun!! |
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Post by Boomzilla on Dec 5, 2020 16:05:21 GMT -5
The steps Roon lists for Nucleus activation are:
Power up the Nucleus (white pilot light IS on)
Connect the Nucleus to the network (I used Ethernet, and the green lights on the Nucleus Ethernet port indicate connection)
Connect the external storage to the Nucleus
Fire up Roon Remote - The Roon Remote connected to the Nucleus+ and instantly said that an update was needed. I told it to install, and the progress bar went to about 2% and stopped. Obviously, the Nucleus+ IS connected to the internet or else it wouldn't know that its software needed updating. Nothing else is using my cable-based internet, so bandwidth shouldn't be a problem. I'll leave it until in the morning and see if the update has installed by then?)
Restore your Roon backup (Looks like it will take a total of 18 or more hours for a full Roon backup. I'm 6 hours into the Roon backup and only 33% done. That's the slowest backup algorithm I've EVER seen. The Roon forums say this is normal. Bah-Humbug! Hopefully, the restore can be done in LESS than another 18 hours?
And we'll have fun, fun, fun till her daddy takes the T-bird away.
Boom
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Post by Boomzilla on Dec 6, 2020 6:01:13 GMT -5
Bug in the Roon Nucleus. Update failure is common. To bypass, the Nucleus must be power-cycled and then the update installs. Shabby...
Installed Qobuz, but am still looking for how to enter the gift code I was sent. The Qobuz help says that there is a gift code tab on my account. There isn't. Shabby...
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Dec 6, 2020 11:16:11 GMT -5
Hopefully, you get it back on track quickly. It does seem like a lot of new e-gear requires a software update when it arrives, but bummer that it failed.
Mark
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Post by Boomzilla on Dec 6, 2020 14:35:09 GMT -5
After almost 24 hours, the Roon backup ended. The backup file was on a USB stick. I fired up the nucleus and it wouldn't recognize the backup. So instead, I had to use a backup from a year ago, discarding all the cover art, metadata, and time spent grooming the library in the meantime. The 24 hours of "backup time" since yesterday is also wasted. Roon backup SUUUUUUUCKS. So I finally got to listen to my music library via the nucleus+. And? Every song that I play sounds like a phonograph record (and I do NOT say this as a compliment). There are ticks and pops in the silence before and after each song, and frequently (like every four or five seconds, but in random pattern) during the songs. WTF? Two probabilities occur to me: 1. the two USB ports on the back of the nucleus are "paired."  This means that if a USB plug has a thick height (many do), it will interfere with the other plug, possibly causing intermittent connection. This is a bad socket design. To avoid this possibility, I plan to add a pigtail.  2. If the USB connector isn't the problem, then maybe the output adapter is:  I can swap the existing one out or clean & reseat it. Any other ideas? Boom |
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Post by audiobill on Dec 6, 2020 14:50:20 GMT -5
Try a mac mini?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2020 19:31:29 GMT -5
After almost 24 hours, the Roon backup ended. The backup file was on a USB stick. I fired up the nucleus and it wouldn't recognize the backup. So instead, I had to use a backup from a year ago, discarding all the cover art, metadata, and time spent grooming the library in the meantime. The 24 hours of "backup time" since yesterday is also wasted. Roon backup SUUUUUUUCKS. So I finally got to listen to my music library via the nucleus+. And? Every song that I play sounds like a phonograph record (and I do NOT say this as a compliment). There are ticks and pops in the silence before and after each song, and frequently (like every four or five seconds, but in random pattern) during the songs. WTF? Two probabilities occur to me: 1. the two USB ports on the back of the nucleus are "paired." This means that if a USB plug has a thick height (many do), it will interfere with the other plug, possibly causing intermittent connection. This is a bad socket design. To avoid this possibility, I plan to add a pigtail. 2. If the USB connector isn't the problem, then maybe the output adapter is: I can swap the existing one out or clean & reseat it. Any other ideas? Boom Don't ya love doing the troubleshooting and additional research and development for a company ya don't get paid by? Eva think it's one thing to sign up for beta testing but another to actually purchase a product thereby paying a company to work for them for free? |
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Post by garbulky on Dec 6, 2020 20:22:34 GMT -5
I fired up the nucleus and it wouldn't recognize the backup. So instead, I had to use a backup from a year ago, discarding all the cover art, metadata, and time spent grooming the library in the meantime. Oh boy... I reckon we've seen this happen to you a few times! |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Dec 6, 2020 20:28:44 GMT -5
I just don't understand why you have all these problems. And, what was Roon "backing up" for you?
Honestly...for me, I told Roon where my music files were on my network, and it found them and I could just start playing them pretty much instantly.
What were you having it do? And...why?
Mark
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Post by Boomzilla on Dec 6, 2020 20:35:23 GMT -5
I just don't understand why you have all these problems. And, what was Roon "backing up" for you? Honestly...for me, I told Roon where my music files were on my network, and it found them and I could just start playing them pretty much instantly. What were you having it do? And...why? Mark From ROON: Migrating To A New Computer Before you start, please: Confirm you're running the latest version of Roon. You can check this by clicking About on the Settings page. Make sure you have a recent backup. instructions are here. Confirm the audio extraction process has completed. Once in while (such as when you first update to Build 69) Roon will need to extract audio from your files for tracking. While your files are being analyzed, you can monitor this process by clicking the spinner in the top-right, next to Bookmarks and Search If the spinner disappears, your files have been fully analyzed. Steps Note that these instructions don't cover moving your music files themselves. If you store your files on a USB drive, you will have to confirm it works on the new computer that will be running your Roon Core. If you use a NAS drive, you may have to re-add it to Roon once you've followed the steps below and moved your database to the new platform. Make a backup (details here) to a local or network storage device Install Roon or RoonServer on the new machine. You can visit the Roon website and download the appropriate installer for your new platform Run the installer and launch Roon or Roon Server. If you installed Roon Server, you will need to also launch Roon in order to configure your new Core. This can be done from any other supported computer or tablet on your network. Restore the backup. When you reach the login screen, don't log in. Click the "Restore a Backup" link in the lower-left and point Roon at the backup you made in Step 1. |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Dec 6, 2020 22:08:19 GMT -5
I just don't understand why you have all these problems. And, what was Roon "backing up" for you? Honestly...for me, I told Roon where my music files were on my network, and it found them and I could just start playing them pretty much instantly. What were you having it do? And...why? Mark From ROON: Migrating To A New Computer Before you start, please: Confirm you're running the latest version of Roon. You can check this by clicking About on the Settings page. Make sure you have a recent backup. instructions are here. Confirm the audio extraction process has completed. Once in while (such as when you first update to Build 69) Roon will need to extract audio from your files for tracking. While your files are being analyzed, you can monitor this process by clicking the spinner in the top-right, next to Bookmarks and Search If the spinner disappears, your files have been fully analyzed. Steps Note that these instructions don't cover moving your music files themselves. If you store your files on a USB drive, you will have to confirm it works on the new computer that will be running your Roon Core. If you use a NAS drive, you may have to re-add it to Roon once you've followed the steps below and moved your database to the new platform. Make a backup (details here) to a local or network storage device Install Roon or RoonServer on the new machine. You can visit the Roon website and download the appropriate installer for your new platform Run the installer and launch Roon or Roon Server. If you installed Roon Server, you will need to also launch Roon in order to configure your new Core. This can be done from any other supported computer or tablet on your network. Restore the backup. When you reach the login screen, don't log in. Click the "Restore a Backup" link in the lower-left and point Roon at the backup you made in Step 1. So...I still have to ask..."what" was it backing up? Your Roon library? I have never migrated mine to another core, so I assume that's what you were doing. Is that what your were backing up? Mark |
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Post by Boomzilla on Dec 7, 2020 3:09:21 GMT -5
Having a backup allows the following to be transferred:
Manually entered metadata
Custom cover art
Favorites lists
Non-commercial album data (my daughter's violin performance dates)
etc.
Without a backup, ALL the above are lost (unless you're using FLAC codec, where the metadata is stored in the audio file).
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Dec 7, 2020 7:49:05 GMT -5
This makes me glad all of mine are in FLAC. Any luck with the pops/clicks?
Mark
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Post by Boomzilla on Dec 7, 2020 8:32:43 GMT -5
This makes me glad all of mine are in FLAC. Any luck with the pops/clicks? Mark Not yet - I've contacted Roon for help. |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Dec 7, 2020 9:56:53 GMT -5
This makes me glad all of mine are in FLAC. Any luck with the pops/clicks? Mark Not yet - I've contacted Roon for help. I take it the output adapter is going from a DAC to a preamp. What DAC are you using? And, is it working fine with other sources? Mark |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Dec 7, 2020 10:02:45 GMT -5
In general EVERYONE will suggest that "you should have a recent backup" before doing any complex operation involving files. The reason is simply that there is ALWAYS the possibility that something will go terribly wrong...
And having a backup provides absolute insurance against this possibility. In general you should back up ANYTHING that contains either a significant amount of data or work.
ALL storage media will eventually die - and you cannot EVER be certain about exactly when it will happen.
Most people realize that they should back up data that cannot be easily recovered - like a library of songs where you no longer have the originals.
However you should also back up anything where you invested significant LABOR that you would prefer not to loose.
It's obvious that this includes a collection of thousands of CDs - which took hundreds of hours to RIP and sort.
But it also includes information that you've added - like metadata and links to cover art.
(And, if you've been adding this over time, you may not realize how much labor and time it would take to recreate from scratch.)
And it also includes organization that has taken time and labor to create - like the copy of your e-mail that you spent days sorting into folders.
(Even if you can download a copy of all your e-mails again you'd probably rather not have to sort it all over again either.)
Note that GOOD backup solutions will also give you the ability to VERIFY your backup after it is made.
That's simply a fancy term for testing your backup to verify that each and every file that belongs there is in fact there and can be read.
Most purpose-built backup programs have an explicit "verify" option...
Many copy programs allow you to tell them to copy all of the files again... then tell them to "don't copy files that are already there but check them"... (I generally use a copy program called TeraCopy.)
For the best security you should unplug the backup drive after making the backup... then plug it back in and verify it... (this confirms that your backup drive has no trouble restarting after being disconnected...)
I don't know the details of what with Roon offers... Many programs like Roon have some sort of backup option. However, with any files stored on a computer, you also always generally have the option of MANUALLY backing them up. All this really means is that you make a copy of the relevant files on a separate disk. You can use a purpose-built "backup program" or you can simply copy the files...
Some programs use a lot of files, and bury them in odd places, so it may be easier to use the built-in "backup" option... And some programs organize their backups in specific and odd ways... And of course you need to know what files to back up for a particular program and how to put them back in use if you need to... You can usually find out exactly what is required for a specific program with a little research...
I would suggest NOT using a USB stick for very large backups. They may be OK for backing up a few gB of metadata... But, for multiple terabytes of music files, or movie files, a spinning disc is still the better choice (in this case a USB hard drive).
- really huge USB stick drives are still expensive - writing a huge number of files to a USB stick still usually takes much longer than with a spinning drive (sticks vary widely)
- the slower speed, and extensive write times, make it more likely that something will go wrong during the process with a USB stick
(each file you write is another opportunity for something to go wrong)
- you will also find that some high-speed USB 3.0 sticks get EXCESSIVELY HOT during very long write sequences (there are actually reports of early USB 3.0 sticks getting too hot to touch, hot enough to damage the computer, or actually falling apart)
- magnetic discs have a longer storage life (in terms of long term storage) - magnetic discs are also built for extensive and time consuming writes (so they're less likely to overheat or fail in other ways)
I would suggest using an external USB hard drive... And, for maximum safety, keep two duplicate backups (in case one fails or is destroyed). You can get a PAIR of 4 tB USB hard drives for about $250 .
From ROON: Migrating To A New Computer Before you start, please: Confirm you're running the latest version of Roon. You can check this by clicking About on the Settings page. Make sure you have a recent backup. instructions are here. Confirm the audio extraction process has completed. Once in while (such as when you first update to Build 69) Roon will need to extract audio from your files for tracking. While your files are being analyzed, you can monitor this process by clicking the spinner in the top-right, next to Bookmarks and Search If the spinner disappears, your files have been fully analyzed. Steps Note that these instructions don't cover moving your music files themselves. If you store your files on a USB drive, you will have to confirm it works on the new computer that will be running your Roon Core. If you use a NAS drive, you may have to re-add it to Roon once you've followed the steps below and moved your database to the new platform. Make a backup (details here) to a local or network storage device Install Roon or RoonServer on the new machine. You can visit the Roon website and download the appropriate installer for your new platform Run the installer and launch Roon or Roon Server. If you installed Roon Server, you will need to also launch Roon in order to configure your new Core. This can be done from any other supported computer or tablet on your network. Restore the backup. When you reach the login screen, don't log in. Click the "Restore a Backup" link in the lower-left and point Roon at the backup you made in Step 1. So...I still have to ask..."what" was it backing up? Your Roon library? I have never migrated mine to another core, so I assume that's what you were doing. Is that what your were backing up? Mark |
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klinemj
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Posts: 15,088
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Post by klinemj on Dec 7, 2020 10:20:05 GMT -5
In general EVERYONE will suggest that "you should have a recent backup" before doing any complex operation involving files. The reason is simply that there is ALWAYS the possibility that something will go terribly wrong...
And having a backup provides absolute insurance against this possibility. In general you should back up ANYTHING that contains either a significant amount of data or work.
ALL storage media will eventually die - and you cannot EVER be certain about exactly when it will happen.
Most people realize that they should back up data that cannot be easily recovered - like a library of songs where you no longer have the originals.
However you should also back up anything where you invested significant LABOR that you would prefer not to loose.
It's obvious that this includes a collection of thousands of CDs - which took hundreds of hours to RIP and sort.
But it also includes information that you've added - like metadata and links to cover art.
(And, if you've been adding this over time, you may not realize how much labor and time it would take to recreate from scratch.)
And it also includes organization that has taken time and labor to create - like the copy of your e-mail that you spent days sorting into folders.
(Even if you can download a copy of all your e-mails again you'd probably rather not have to sort it all over again either.)
Note that GOOD backup solutions will also give you the ability to VERIFY your backup after it is made.
That's simply a fancy term for testing your backup to verify that each and every file that belongs there is in fact there and can be read.
Most purpose-built backup programs have an explicit "verify" option...
Many copy programs allow you to tell them to copy all of the files again... then tell them to "don't copy files that are already there but check them"... (I generally use a copy program called TeraCopy.)
For the best security you should unplug the backup drive after making the backup... then plug it back in and verify it... (this confirms that your backup drive has no trouble restarting after being disconnected...)
I don't know the details of what with Roon offers... Many programs like Roon have some sort of backup option. However, with any files stored on a computer, you also always generally have the option of MANUALLY backing them up. All this really means is that you make a copy of the relevant files on a separate disk. You can use a purpose-built "backup program" or you can simply copy the files...
Some programs use a lot of files, and bury them in odd places, so it may be easier to use the built-in "backup" option... And some programs organize their backups in specific and odd ways... And of course you need to know what files to back up for a particular program and how to put them back in use if you need to... You can usually find out exactly what is required for a specific program with a little research...
I would suggest NOT using a USB stick for very large backups. They may be OK for backing up a few gB of metadata... But, for multiple terabytes of music files, or movie files, a spinning disc is still the better choice (in this case a USB hard drive). - really huge USB stick drives are still expensive - writing a huge number of files to a USB stick still usually takes much longer than with a spinning drive (sticks vary widely)
- the slower speed, and extensive write times, make it more likely that something will go wrong during the process with a USB stick
(each file you write is another opportunity for something to go wrong)
- you will also find that some high-speed USB 3.0 sticks get EXCESSIVELY HOT during very long write sequences (there are actually reports of early USB 3.0 sticks getting too hot to touch, hot enough to damage the computer, or actually falling apart)
- magnetic discs have a longer storage life (in terms of long term storage) - magnetic discs are also built for extensive and time consuming writes (so they're less likely to overheat or fail in other ways)
I would suggest using an external USB hard drive... And, for maximum safety, keep two duplicate backups (in case one fails or is destroyed). You can get a PAIR of 4 tB USB hard drives for about $250 .
So...I still have to ask..."what" was it backing up? Your Roon library? I have never migrated mine to another core, so I assume that's what you were doing. Is that what your were backing up? Mark My question to Boom was totally unrelated to what you are talking about - and I'd guess that pretty much everyone here knows what you typed. I was asking what, specifically, Roon was doing. And, boom answered that. Mark |
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,261
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Post by KeithL on Dec 7, 2020 10:33:22 GMT -5
Yes indeed... But it's always worth repeating. "Everyone seems to know it"... but an awful lot of people still don't seem to DO it. (Otherwise the answer to MOST problems I hear about would be "go back and restore the last backup".... ) And, at another level, it is also the answer to your question... Many programs do incomplete backups or only back up certain data that they consider important.
If you do your own backups, and do them correctly, then you remove the uncertainty about what THEY are doing. Likewise, in most cases, if you're migrating an app to a new disc, on a similar machine... You're better off using a good general purpose migration program (like Paragon)...
That way you simply "clone" the original program drive directly to the drive on the new machine... A good data migration program will automatically adjust the partition size to fully use the new/larger hard drive if that is the case.
From the description it sounds like Roon defaults to a much more complex and labor intensive sort of migration process...
Which leaves far more opportunity for things to go wrong. (Some programs have a good reason for doing it this way... but many do not.)
In general EVERYONE will suggest that "you should have a recent backup" before doing any complex operation involving files. The reason is simply that there is ALWAYS the possibility that something will go terribly wrong...
And having a backup provides absolute insurance against this possibility. In general you should back up ANYTHING that contains either a significant amount of data or work.
ALL storage media will eventually die - and you cannot EVER be certain about exactly when it will happen.
........................... My question to Boom was totally unrelated to what you are talking about - and I'd guess that pretty much everyone here knows what you typed. I was asking what, specifically, Roon was doing. And, boom answered that. Mark |
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ttocs
Global Moderator
I always have a wonderful time, wherever I am, whomever I'm with. (Elwood P Dowd)
Posts: 8,154
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Post by ttocs on Dec 7, 2020 10:48:41 GMT -5
I recently needed to convert a couple hundred gigs of music files to a crummier, smaller format not to exceed 64 gigs. There was a requirement (out of state special school issued MP3 player (no cell phones allowed)) for the music files to be on a USB stick, so I was "stuck" with that form factor. The initial estimate said it would take 16 hours - which I didn't believe, I thought it would take less time, but it took 21 hours to do the conversion/load onto the stick.
For a sanity check I performed the same task using an external USB SSD drive. The estimated time showed it would take about 20 minutes (it always takes a little longer), so I stopped, just wanted to make sure I wasn't crazy, yet.
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Post by Boomzilla on Dec 7, 2020 11:17:47 GMT -5
The "Roon backup" does not actually backup any music. Instead, it backs up the state of the Roon metadata and file organization. A typical Roon backup is but a few gigabytes, which is why it is so puzzling that it takes so long.
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