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Post by Boomzilla on Jul 6, 2023 10:17:12 GMT -5
When I was a teenager, I wanted to ride the tour - Until I learned how hard it really is... Earned pocket money working in local bike shops while I went to school.
On another topic, the only of my female audio amigos, Annette, has a pair of Klipsch La Scalas that she wants to sell. Her speakers are lacquered ash with side handles built in. Excellent condition - look like new despite being 50 years old. I'm wondering if I should buy them.
In favor of the acquisition:
Love the sound of these
Can be driven by inexpensive electronics
Work well with tubes
Against the idea:
Poor WAF
No shipping boxes for when we move
Need a LARGE room
Crossovers are iffy at their age
No deep bass (probably need a sub)
Expensive!
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Post by leonski on Jul 6, 2023 15:19:26 GMT -5
This is an easy year to watch.......Some years I have just given up.....
US news coverage is feeble at best.
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Post by leonski on Jul 6, 2023 19:36:34 GMT -5
I will scan thru Mountain stages for HC (beyond category) climbs and interesting finishes.
THAN I will watch the ITT (individual time trial) from start to finish.
This is rightly called 'The Race Of Truth'.....in a typical bit of Gaellic Understatement.....
LAST goal is for Mark Cavendish to win his 35th stage. Than retire.....He is 38 and getting
to be a 'senior' on the tour....
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butchgo
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The Dark Side rules
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Post by butchgo on Jul 6, 2023 19:46:16 GMT -5
I've been watching it on Peacock and it is really good to see Phil Ligget and Bob Roll still doing it!
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Post by leonski on Jul 6, 2023 23:34:58 GMT -5
Not a big fan of Bob, but Phil has gone from 'avoid' to 'tolerable' I saw him a couple year when he was broadcasting what was essentially
'Tour Lite' with lots of travelogue information. I expected Rick Steves to come on and do a Cameo....
Much better now and shows a LOT of knowledge of every facet of the Tour and riders.....
I'm really anticipating the ITT of Stage 16 on the 18th.....after a rest day......THIS will be the stage I make popcorn for,
have a beer and watch from start to finish....
I won't PAY for this and am willing to take the USANetwork feed and just FF thru commercials.....
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Post by marcl on Jul 7, 2023 7:55:22 GMT -5
Not a big fan of Bob, but Phil has gone from 'avoid' to 'tolerable' I saw him a couple year when he was broadcasting what was essentially 'Tour Lite' with lots of travelogue information. I expected Rick Steves to come on and do a Cameo.... Much better now and shows a LOT of knowledge of every facet of the Tour and riders..... I'm really anticipating the ITT of Stage 16 on the 18th.....after a rest day......THIS will be the stage I make popcorn for, have a beer and watch from start to finish.... I won't PAY for this and am willing to take the USANetwork feed and just FF thru commercials..... Are you talking about Bob Roll? Wow he's still at it? Nice name for a cyclist. Does he still call it the "Tour Day Fraance"? |
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Post by Boomzilla on Jul 7, 2023 8:17:00 GMT -5
And I'm doubting that the cycling organization has yet found any way to ban doping?
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cawgijoe
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"When you come to a fork in the road, take it." - Yogi Berra
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Post by cawgijoe on Jul 7, 2023 9:26:20 GMT -5
And I'm doubting that the cycling organization has yet found any way to ban doping? I'm sure the testing is more rigoruos and in depth than it used to be, but there always seems to be a way around it. It's really unfortunate that Lance Armstrong has been completely removed from any mention in the record books when they were all doing it. He was the one unfortunately that didn't fess up and pissed off the ruling bodies. Whether the doping or blood oxygen enhancements made a difference or not, he was still a hell of a cyclist and actually did finish those races. I don't condone what he and others did, I just find it very strange that he doesn't seem to exist anymore. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Jul 7, 2023 13:20:18 GMT -5
Agreed - especially since 100% of the current riders are also doing it.
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Post by leonski on Jul 7, 2023 13:32:33 GMT -5
And I'm doubting that the cycling organization has yet found any way to ban doping? The purity of the sport must be maintained. It is a contest of MEN, not of machines or drugs. The French have a bill in the National Assembly (lower house of Parliament) to bring back the Guillotine.... The public is vastly in support of this bill and it should pass with relative ease...... Dopers? OFF WITH THEIR HEADS! |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jul 7, 2023 13:56:31 GMT -5
But those men are riding machines... And, unless they all ride the same exact bicycle, then the outcome does partially depend on the machine. Personally I'd rather see a "pure" class for "non-enhanced humans"... And then an "open class" which would allow performance enhancing drugs, cyborgs, and anything else that walks in on its own two legs... (or maybe we should allow folks with permanently attached wheels as well... as long as they don't have an engine...  ) And I'm doubting that the cycling organization has yet found any way to ban doping? The purity of the sport must be maintained. It is a contest of MEN, not of machines or drugs. The French have a bill in the National Assembly (lower house of Parliament) to bring back the Guillotine.... The public is vastly in support of this bill and it should pass with relative ease...... Dopers? OFF WITH THEIR HEADS! |
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Post by leonski on Jul 7, 2023 19:32:52 GMT -5
But those men are riding machines... And, unless they all ride the same exact bicycle, then the outcome does partially depend on the machine. Personally I'd rather see a "pure" class for "non-enhanced humans"... And then an "open class" which would allow performance enhancing drugs, cyborgs, and anything else that walks in on its own two legs... (or maybe we should allow folks with permanently attached wheels as well... as long as they don't have an engine... ) The purity of the sport must be maintained. It is a contest of MEN, not of machines or drugs. The French have a bill in the National Assembly (lower house of Parliament) to bring back the Guillotine.... The public is vastly in support of this bill and it should pass with relative ease...... Dopers? OFF WITH THEIR HEADS! 'things' have changed in the tour over the DECADES. Originally billed, as I say, as a contest of men not machines, change to the essentially diamond frame / steel tube formula was slow in coming. Now? Carbon Fiber. And Aluminum, maybe, with Specialized (S-Works) at one time experimenting with Metal matrix Composits. Top line of that brand now have E-bike features.....but still and all, the TOP Dura Ace group is well north of 10,000$........And use a very custom Carbon composite with proprietary layup / post treatment. If you look thru some current tour images, you'll find one of the Specialized bike folded at the rear triangle.....Like a Cheap Suit. In the vertical, the frame has the strength of a bridge. Off axis, it is MUCH weaker.....This is what led me to my ideas about frame triangulation for Magnepan speakers...... The organizing body.....is VERY slow to adopt change. Helmets were not mandatory until long after any sane person descending a mountain at 50mph was wearing one~I'd guess 20 years or so. I heard of a Tour rider dying after a crash in which he struck a Bridge Abutment with his Mellon......This was in 2017 Genetic modifications will have to wait for the next century, at least. Though maybe an Inter-Sex person may compete, IF they can qualify at the highest level.... You'll find that the current paradigm is very efficient. You may ask about Recumbents....which climb like DOGS or some other geometries, but the current types are HIGHLY evolved with angles and diemenetions to within MM of the 'perfect' for the givn owner. You'll also find that big strong riders TEND to have an advantage on descents, while the super power to weight ratio makes the 150lb all-muscle guy...a superior climber. I myself are thick and not tall. My maximum speeds downhill have exceeded 50mph on several occassions. Sectional Density rules......And that was with a 52/14 top gear......With a 53/12 I suspect another 5mph or more...... At one point I was stopped and the cop wanted (head shaking) to give me a ticket for reckless driving.....which requires 3 infractions, AFAIK.... I've got the X-Rays to prove it...... In years past, there was a slightly abbreviated tour for Women....the Tour De France Femme. This year (suprised the hell out of ME!) it is about 960km in 8 stages. No time trial..... I thought it was GONE..... Call it 583 miles or about 73 miles per day...... |
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Post by Boomzilla on Jul 8, 2023 8:23:01 GMT -5
Back in the old days, the riders would pant and puff at the end of each leg of the Tour while sharing cigarettes! Eventually, riders realized that they could oxygenate their own blood & have extra energy without detectable doping. Then came "disguise packages" that would hide the doping during laboratory analysis. Detection always seems one step behind doping innovation.
To protect the health of the riders and to make the race more fair, it would be best to totally eliminate doping. But nobody's quite figured out how to accomplish that.
Oh well...
But the Tour has spurred technological innovation in bicycle design. Today's bikes are lighter, stronger, and more rigid than the old steel designs.
Unfortunately, recreational bicycle makers have decided that that the general public wants to ride a racing bike. Just about any recreational bike you buy these days will have head angles and trail appropriate to racing instead of recreational use. This makes for a twitchy ride and explains why so many new bikes get so little use before they're put out at yard sales for pennies on the dollar of their original selling prices. This isn't an opinion - it's a fact. If manufacturers would stop trying to sell racing bikes to the public, they'd do a lot more business.
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Post by leonski on Jul 9, 2023 0:25:10 GMT -5
The tech you refer to comes at a price.
Most in the sub 1000$ area or maybe below maybe 800$ are a 6000 series aluminum. Hardened to T6 spec. Roughtly 'mild steel tubing'. Big deal...but CHEAP.
In the very old days. a company called REYNOLDS made many tubesets. Just for example? 531 was a good alloy and make for regular people. But IDENTICAL in composition was 753r, which was the same
stuff only thinner and required VERY competent assembly.....And a certification from Reynolds. These are Not Chrome Moly, but a Magnesium alloy.....No nickel, either.....
Butted tubing has different thicknesses at the ends and in the middle....'Double Butted'......But the Asian company, TANGE, made Triple and Quad Butted tubesets.
The Italian company? Columbus made 'Chrome Moly' a byword.
the DESIGNS are very similar for the last 70 or 80 years. the REAL innovation is materials and fabrication. Titanium, for example, started badly with CP alloys being used....(Commercially Pure) and fabricated
bottom brackets would FAIL at the most inopportune moment......
A US mountian bike guy bought some surplus Aircraft Hydraulic tube and made some nearly indestructible framesets. He used what's called 'Three...Two and a Half'....which is 3% Allumininm and 2 1/2% Vanadium.....
And must be welded in an INERT GAS envoroment. The even more intractiable alloy, called 'Six....Four'.....can't hardly be made into tubes, but is used for the flat parts....dropouts and such.....
I think Paris Roubaix which takes place on sections of PAVE` (awful brickwork) now allows suspension bikes.......similar to mountain bike.
Weight is the BIG red Herring of bikes. Ridiculous, since longevity and fatigue resistance is the first thing out the window. I rode an EARLY Vitus Alluminum Framset over 40 years ago. It was like riding a screen door.....floppy?
I rode around the parking lot and gave it BACK.
Some racing bikes can get fragile, too....when stressed in the wrong way. I saw a photo from the current tour where a Specialized S-Works rear end folded like a cheap suit. I think it had taken a lot of SIDE STRESS. before it went.
I could lose 20lb and get THAT kind of benefit if I maintained strength. I could buy a bike weighing 20lb less....but it would be unrideable....
Carbon frames are typically MOLDED not assembled from lenghts of tube. This Adds cost. A lot. But you can form tubes into Aero Sections and put the strength EXACTLY where needed. Again, potentially fragile....
It's TOUGH to be more rigid than a big-tube 6000 series bike. They have NO give at all and aluminum has some awful properties for bikes.....Like NO fatigue strength. Each cycle eats into ultimate life span of structure.
Steel will last forever as long as stress is below fatigue limit. The 'Soft' steel frame after years of service is mostly sheer nonsense.....
Buyers need to get their sh** together. I LIKE a relaxed geometry. I've ridden....again decades ago.....and only for a test.....a Canondale from the SR series......Really brutal big-tube 6000 series Aluminum frameset and some very aggressive
geometry. Difficult to get THAT one right, for me, at least. I bought later.....a UNIVEGA Triathelon Bike which was a log more relaxed and made with good quality Tange tubing......
An early doping technique? Ride mountains. Generate LOTS of redbloodcells than 'donate' a pint of blood. The night before a big mountain stage? Get your OWN BLOOD back and enrich your chances?
I KNEW a few 'smoking cyclists'....but non were serious. The guys I knew....Cat 1, in those days, were ALL serious and healthy riders.
Bikes have changed ONE design element to the better. DISC BRAKES are wonderful. And while providing huge stopping power, can be modulated without lockup.
You might also note that TIRES are much better, too....better materials and MUCH better rubber.... But still the same 'tubular' style with latex innertubes.....
The US cycling team experimented for a while with filling tires with Helium.....IIRC.....But it leaked out so fast that I suspect in a 140 mile stage, you'd need a mid-race 'fill'......Or stop to swap wheels....also done.....
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Post by Boomzilla on Jul 9, 2023 7:58:02 GMT -5
The "smoking Tour riders" were in the 50's and early 60's. Maybe you weren't born then? But there ARE photos... You're exactly right about frames. I used to braze Renyolds 531 frames for myself and my biking amigos. I didn't have the $$$ for a TIG welder, so when newer frame materials came along, I mostly just let it all go. I'll never forget my first bike that had machine mitered tubes and welded joints (Trek?) - it amazed me. |
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Post by leonski on Jul 9, 2023 12:36:01 GMT -5
Wow! A really awful practice.
I didn't start following tour at all until I took up more.....serious.....riding maybe just before 1980. At that time, the big star, at least from the USA was Greg Lemond.
I followed his career with interest and even was agape at his Time Trial performance in 1989 where he won the tour on the final stage.
Tour organizers are not likelly to ever repeat THAT mistake!
You have a point, though. Drugs and such practices are Anti-Sport in the worst sense. I don't know what the numbers show, but I'll hope that Tobacco use
has been going down....
I have no idea, either, of the penetration of such practices in OTHER sports. Tennis? Golf? NFL or even Soccer at the various levels.
Than you need to consider college sport which is in many cases the 'springboard' to a professional career. Baseball has its OWN farm system but basketball
and football rely in large part on college players to 'fill the ranks'....
BTW? Reynolds and Columbus made good and sometimes Great tubesets.
But speaking strictly as a METALURGIST would, the material with the best characteristics of ALL the steels would be from a small company which made EXCELL tubes.
The top tier there went OVER 200,000lb tensile and over 170,000lb yield strength. Far above any other bike steel....Even Super Vitus 983 or Reynolds 753r......
Though at those levels you enter 'Gilding The Lily' territory.....Most frequently compared to S.A.E. 4130, a known quantity.....
Fully annealed values will differ and may be lower?
The Excell tube set? Only one I know of which is a Nickel alloy.... The only user I can find reference to was MASI, who made the Volumetrica frameset....
Both the Vitus 983 and the Excell tubes, when photomicrographed are EXTREMELY fine grain, which promotes excellent fatigue properties.....You'd Never wear one out!
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Post by leonski on Jul 10, 2023 20:33:16 GMT -5
Early Trak Aluminum was I think a 7000 series and featured excellent workmanship.... I saw a Dura Ace equipped on spray......
I would NOT buy at any price.....except as a wall-hanger. Aluminum is a suspect material and has no fatigue limits......It just wears out.....
I wonder if you can find any original and UNUSED tubesets? It would be worthwhile to build a jig and source some lugs?
OH! A company called Frambuilder supply! Just what the DIY guy ordered.....
And than it gets weird.
I found a company with Reynolds. The one above has Columbus and another with Tange........Tange Prestige is a very good steel....
So take your pick!
NO details as to alloy composition. They are, after all, selling Sizzle..... And lack of information drives the buyer 'upmarket', in the
Hope that it's better....
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Post by Boomzilla on Jul 11, 2023 15:57:57 GMT -5
Amazon's sale is tempting me badly...
New speakers? New DAC? New amplifier?
No, I don't need any of the above, and my current speakers are more than fine for movies, but not as dynamic as I'd like for music.
Oh well...
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Post by leonski on Jul 11, 2023 19:15:24 GMT -5
Buy a camera instead.......One of the new generation of Mirrorless in Full Frame by Sony, Canon or Nikon.....Though I'm prejudiced in favor of one of 'em.......
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Post by Boomzilla on Jul 11, 2023 19:17:36 GMT -5
Buy a camera instead.......One of the new generation of Mirrorless in Full Frame by Sony, Canon or Nikon.....Though I'm prejudiced in favor of one of 'em....... My mirrorless camera is an iPhone. |
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