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Post by marcl on Sept 1, 2024 6:38:00 GMT -5
I think, but this is speculation on my part, that the reason Generac has a black eye in this area has more to do with the quality of service rather than the mechanical quality of the machines themselves. This is something that would not show up in the CR ratings. Why is Generac (home) generator service so poor here? I posit several contributing factors: 1. COVID-19 caused many (most?) of the older, more experienced technicians to leave the work force. This area of the country, possibly due to the prevailing political climate, has a significantly larger population of “vaccine deniers,” leading to a much higher fatality rate than most other areas of the country. This has decimated the pool of “experienced workers” in all industries, but was particularly harsh on the trades industries (including generator repair personnel). 2. The remaining pool of experienced tradesmen can make far higher wages servicing industrial equipment than they can servicing home generators. This area of the country is heavily industrialized. 3. New trades employees entering the workforce therefore choose training (for industrial maintenance) that will compensate them better than small-generator maintenance, exacerbating the shortage of home generator service technicians. 4. The worker shortage has affected Generac more than other brands because of two factors - the large installed base of Generac home products (due to the Generac pricing that is usually the most economical available) and the huge existing inventory of Generac industrial generators in local industries. 5. The wait time for service on a Generac home generator in this area averages six months or more. Technicians for other brands are usually available in three to four months. 6. The wait time for Generac parts is also longer than availabilities for other brands. The combined effects of the above factors lead most home electrical contractors to not reccomend Generac products. Related to #1, it ain't over yet .... but for the "vaccinophiles" among us ... I just saw that the "updated" 2024/2025 Covid vaccine as well as "geezer strength" flu shots are now available at major pharmacy chains.
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Sept 1, 2024 7:55:40 GMT -5
.... but for the "vaccinophiles" among us ... I just saw that the "updated" 2024/2025 Covid vaccine as well as "geezer strength" flu shots are now available at major pharmacy chains. Good to know! I need to check w/my local pharmacy and set up an appointment! Mark
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Post by leonski on Sept 1, 2024 15:55:10 GMT -5
Wait 6 months for service.....than find out you need a PART which is 90 days out? Sorry.......
I suspect MTBF of Solar / PhotoVoltaic is much better than poor genset and simply better than even the most reliable types.
I don't know how to say it in a cute / humorous way, but you BUY the genset for emergencies and have to put up with the service
people FOR LIFE.....
You can get pretty much the SAME genset anywhere in the lower 48, and probably AK and HI as well PR and many other places.
But you are STUCK with the local wrench people....
My brother hired a marine mechanic.....Well BEFORE Covid.....to come look at the engine on his SAILBOAT. These are typically
4 cyliner DIESEL from about 4 or so brands. Yanmar makes a 4cyl of 100 cubic inches which is about the smallest and I'll bet would
make a fine genset engine in domestic applications. A mid-30 foot sailboat doesnt need more than maybe 50hp to move it along at
6 or 7 knots.......and burn maybe 5 or 6 liters per hour.....Frequently much less....
Mechanic shows up at my brothers moored boat. SANS TOOLS and had to borrow some to do ANYTHING more than confirm.....'Yes, you have an Engine'....
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Post by Boomzilla on Sept 1, 2024 17:52:31 GMT -5
I had multiple different Generac technicians come to repair my (first) large Generac portable generator. None of the techs could diagnose the problem (much less repair it). When the attempted repairs exceeded 50% of the original price of the generator (still with no successful repair), I gave the generator away and just bought another. The ONLY brand available in the size I wanted was another Generac. Now, two and a half years after purchasing my second Generac, it is also failing. I've learned my lesson - I'll NEVER buy another Generac product.
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Sept 1, 2024 22:04:59 GMT -5
I had multiple different Generac technicians come to repair my (first) large Generac portable generator. None of the techs could diagnose the problem (much less repair it). When the attempted repairs exceeded 50% of the original price of the generator (still with no successful repair), I gave the generator away and just bought another. The ONLY brand available in the size I wanted was another Generac. Now, two and a half years after purchasing my second Generac, it is also failing. I've learned my lesson - I'll NEVER buy another Generac product. Good to know as I am contemplating asking the new home builder what the cost would be to install. In this area, I see two Generacs on our street. I’ll have to inquire as to what they think.
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Post by Boomzilla on Sept 2, 2024 2:19:33 GMT -5
Hi cawgijoe - Also ask how old the generators are. My problem with Generacs mostly concerns their longevity…
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Post by Boomzilla on Sept 2, 2024 2:35:49 GMT -5
I am finding that I now watch most movies, TV series, and YouTube content on either my iPad (with wireless Bluetooth headphones) or at my computer on my Apple Cinema Display. My wife normally doesn’t share my tastes, and prefers to watch her content on the living room TV. This being the case, my main audio system, also in the living room, is getting 99% of its service in stereo mode rather than 5.1. Oh well…
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Post by Zombie on Sept 2, 2024 3:36:45 GMT -5
I had multiple different Generac technicians come to repair my (first) large Generac portable generator. None of the techs could diagnose the problem (much less repair it). When the attempted repairs exceeded 50% of the original price of the generator (still with no successful repair), I gave the generator away and just bought another. The ONLY brand available in the size I wanted was another Generac. Now, two and a half years after purchasing my second Generac, it is also failing. I've learned my lesson - I'll NEVER buy another Generac product. Good to know as I am contemplating asking the new home builder what the cost would be to install. In this area, I see two Generacs on our street. I’ll have to inquire as to what they think. I enquired with our builder about doing the generator pre-wire. They came back at around 9k which I thought was excessive. I then enquired with a local place that sells and installs Honeywells. They came back at about 10-11k for a 24kw generator installed (pad included). The only thing they didn’t do was run the gas line from my buried propane tank (only about a 15-20’ run). We’ll probably eventually have a generator installed but it won’t be right away. Too much other stuff to do first.
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Post by davidl81 on Sept 2, 2024 8:07:42 GMT -5
Hi cawgijoe - Also ask how old the generators are. My problem with Generacs mostly concerns their longevity… FWIW any portable Generac generator made before 2008 is just a Briggs and Stratton generator with a Generac sticker applied to it. Generac sold off its portable division in the 90's and once the agreement ended in 2008 they started producing their own portable units again.
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Post by Boomzilla on Sept 2, 2024 8:13:03 GMT -5
Mine were all post-2008.
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Post by Boomzilla on Sept 2, 2024 8:17:43 GMT -5
Good to know as I am contemplating asking the new home builder what the cost would be to install. In this area, I see two Generacs on our street. I’ll have to inquire as to what they think. I enquired with our builder about doing the generator pre-wire. They came back at around 9k which I thought was excessive. I then enquired with a local place that sells and installs Honeywells. They came back at about 10-11k for a 24kw generator installed (pad included). The only thing they didn’t do was run the gas line from my buried propane tank (only about a 15-20’ run). We’ll probably eventually have a generator installed but it won’t be right away. Too much other stuff to do first. Don't forget the cost of permits - City, County, Utility Co., etc. Even though our property insurance is (or at least used to be) inexpensive here, they all make it up in fees. Here, you also have to hire a licensed electrician to wire the auto-transfer switch. I won't complain about the electrician, though. On the first house I bought, some jackleg had wired the kitchen (electrical) stove directly to the meter pan with no breaker!
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Post by leonski on Sept 2, 2024 18:09:07 GMT -5
You Know, Boom? I'm curious now. You mention a single Generac dealer. And potential parts delays. How much area does this LONE repair guy cover? Who else does he work for? You know, a 2nd service doing the same work will help keep the FIRST one honest.
My TV crapped out. Based on my description? He brought out one of the 4 or so boards in the set. NOPE! He said it was my panel and that was like 2 weeks out......But he was back the NEXT day. They had one in the stock room for a job that maybe fell thru? BTW? Total disassembly, replace panel, restore......maybe 30 or 40 minutes. Insane.
I've friends go thru Hoops with auto dealers / repair people. They get a code. New part installed. Same code comes back next week. This goes on until somebody gets lucky or there is a Lemon Law violation.....
IMO? I'll stick to real electricians, not 'volunteers'.
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Post by Boomzilla on Sept 2, 2024 20:25:09 GMT -5
There are multiple Generac dealers (all with service departments) near me. The technicians who work there are either high school kids or else older guys who weren’t smart enough to work on the bigger, and more lucrative, industrial Generacs.
As anyone who does repairs knows, the problem is NOT replacing parts, but rather diagnosing WHICH parts need replacing. And, apparently, local Generac techs (regardless of what company they work for), lack the grey matter to properly diagnose generator problems. Small engines and fuel system problems, the techs could probably do OK with, but I haven’t met a single one yet who can read an electrical schematic. And the generator control systems are what’s gone bad on my last two Generacs.
I’m waiting for a quote on a Briggs & Stratton generator install. I’ve already got a quote for the Kohler. Assuming similar pricing, I’ll sign a contract for the one that can be installed first.
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Post by leonski on Sept 3, 2024 0:22:55 GMT -5
If you are within 50 miles of the coast, find a Kohler Marine or equivalent dealer.....And a redneck to do the external plumbing / radiator for the external cooling loop. Marine Gensets come WITH a heat exchanger so no river or seawater ever......External loop will be automotive in nature and use regular automotive coolant....which should last 3 to 5 years between changes......Measure PH
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Post by leonski on Sept 3, 2024 12:52:58 GMT -5
I keep on coming back to your notes about Generac Service. It's like they picked a dealer out of the phone book.
Is there ANY factory training? Even 3 days at 'Generac Central' would give a service guy quite the leg up.
When I was working, I attended either at the factory OR where I worked, classes given by the service end of
many of the machines we used were all very helpful. Either 'how to run'.......So I could later help write specs
for operation....or in some cases, repair, maintenance or programming for our process.....
Based on your thoughts about Generac, they are really dropping the service ball.
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Post by leonski on Sept 3, 2024 13:01:23 GMT -5
generac-fs.inquisiqlms.com/catalog/Generac Training catalog......They offer online courses, as well. The course you want is a 'certificate' course which goes 750$ for a 2-day course. I see 'prerequisites listed......... And they want you to already know how to use a Meter.....so this is not the advanced class..... I don't think it would be out of line to ASK any prospective service people what service classes they attended...... And I'd like Generac to send me any materials concerning such training........ Again, based on Boom's notes? I sense a gap........
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Sept 3, 2024 13:53:27 GMT -5
Hi cawgijoe - Also ask how old the generators are. My problem with Generacs mostly concerns their longevity… The Generacs are fairly new....one is about two years old connected to two above ground propane tanks, the other is just a few months old and connected the same.
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Sept 3, 2024 13:59:12 GMT -5
Good to know as I am contemplating asking the new home builder what the cost would be to install. In this area, I see two Generacs on our street. I’ll have to inquire as to what they think. I enquired with our builder about doing the generator pre-wire. They came back at around 9k which I thought was excessive. I then enquired with a local place that sells and installs Honeywells. They came back at about 10-11k for a 24kw generator installed (pad included). The only thing they didn’t do was run the gas line from my buried propane tank (only about a 15-20’ run). We’ll probably eventually have a generator installed but it won’t be right away. Too much other stuff to do first. Thats nuts! My brother-in-law's mother who is in her 80's had a Generac installed a couple years ago through Costco and didn't pay anywhere near that. This was for an existing home in Delaware. Not sure what size. I'll ask him tonight what the cost was. Of course, she now complains that the power never goes out after she got the unit! I'll inquire, but not going to spend for the sake of spending.
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Post by cwmcobra on Sept 3, 2024 18:22:49 GMT -5
I’m waiting for a quote on a Briggs & Stratton generator install. I’ve already got a quote for the Kohler. Assuming similar pricing, I’ll sign a contract for the one that can be installed first. I've had good luck with Briggs & Stratton generators. Both standby with auto switches. The first lasted 15 years until I got nervous about its remaining life and had a new, larger one installed this spring. Had a few issues with the first one but have a first rate, very responsive dealer and service team about 40 miles away. I was never unhappy with their service. Luck of the draw, perhaps. I believe B&S has the longest warranty of the bunch, but could be wrong. Good luck with the quotes and your decision! Chuck
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Post by Boomzilla on Sept 3, 2024 18:54:12 GMT -5
To get a building permit here, I need:
* A “Certificate of Elevation” * An up-to-date plot plan, and * Some kind of “Pre-Construction Elevation” certificate
The estimate I got for these three pieces of paper? $2,100 DOLLARS! Just for the survey work. The generator itself was $11,500, so I’m up to $13,600 not counting plumbing for the gas line, the cost of the slab for the generator, the electrical work (including a new 200VA meter pan, a new service drop, a whole-house surge suppressor, a new breaker box with circuit breakers, removal of the existing manual transfer switch, and labor for the new equipment installation), and the actual permits. At this rate, this project could easily run $30,000!
This may not be economically feasible (the understatement of the year)…. The straws that seems to be breaking this camel’s back here seem to be the cost of the generator itself (Kohlers seem to be available for about half the price of the Briggs & Stratton) and the survey cost (I’ve been told that a good surveyor should be able to do my work for about half what I’ve been quoted).
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