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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2014 12:35:22 GMT -5
I think it's silly that the thread has to be all positive. It IS kinda lame the announcement came at this point in time but at the same time, theres no way I'm going to be a first adopter on this, even though I'm one of the very first few people on the pre-order list.
I love the fact it's upgradable and know the RMC-1 will be the same but it was announced that it was hdmi 2.0 not that long ago, only to be take away weeks later.
It's good that the announcement was made but at the same time, it's just another facepalm moment for the xmc-1, which seems to have a bucket full already.
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Post by RightinLA on Feb 15, 2014 12:40:39 GMT -5
Precisely, it is the nature of the claims.
It is very disappointing to get this on a regular basis from Franklin TN.
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Post by cwt on Feb 15, 2014 13:02:14 GMT -5
With the processor being this close to release. I wonder when they knew about HDMI 2. I imagine it would have been found out the moment one actually looked at the feature sheet much less managed to successfully integrate it into a processor. For instance I found it was the chip not HDMI 2 in about ten seconds using google and THREE mouse clicks. It was on the very first page. I think that maybe they had a look and saw the adv7625 [ which is the latest flagship hdmi transceiver from AD www.businesswire.com/news/home/20140107005027/en/Crosspoint-Transceivers-Distribute-Wide-Range-Ultra-High-Definition-Home#.Uv-nwPmSy4I ] and saw that it is capable of uhd 4k @ 25/30fps and said hdmi 2.0 as many associate 4k with 2.0  Reminds me when hdmi.org started saying dont associate the revision No with what you want ; do it by features needed ... Of course thats been ignored and everyone fixates on the No - me included  I get a great kick out of other brands marketing 1.4 as ''4k ready'' - throw it out there and see if it sticks lol |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Feb 15, 2014 13:09:36 GMT -5
Yea! Where the hell is the TOASTER?  |
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Post by chaosrv on Feb 15, 2014 13:13:57 GMT -5
Moving on...Next up is the shipping date. I see a ship date for the new receiver (perfect for someone like my younger bro) of 3/20/2014. XMC-1 ship date? Surely, if this is being built in house vs coming from China, a ship date would be much easier to predict/schedule with better accuracy. And no I won't call you Shirley. You can actually add to cart the 8100 receiver with it shipping 3/20/2014. If my XMC-1 is shipping within a month, sign me up...I'll pay my upgrade for life $$$ now...you know for cash flow reasons. I *think* the reason the XMC cannot be added to a shopping cart is due to the fact there so many pre-orders. Emotiva needs to sort through who on the pre-orders still want their XMC before making it available for purchase straight away. I think if they allowed it to be purchased (added to a shopping cart) before the five-year long pre-order list was completed would only serve to upset a lot of long time customers. |
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Post by 2muchht on Feb 15, 2014 13:49:35 GMT -5
...1.4b can do 10bit 4:4:4... Yes, it can. BUT, and this is what the real subject is here, it can do 4:4:4 up to 12-bit colour at 1080/60p, NOT at 2160. 1080/60p/4:4:4/12-bit takes 6.68Gbps bandwidth and 222.75MHz clock. That's well within "1.4b". Similarly, at 8.91Gbps/297 MHz you can pass 2160/30p with 4:2:2 at 8-, 10- or 12-bit colour or 4:4:4 at 8-bit. At the same 8.91Gbps bandwidth and 297 MHz TMDS clock you can also do 2160/60p but only at 4:2:0 with 8-bit colour. At 2160/60p you need 17.82Gbps bandwidth and 594MHz TMDS clock. Once you have that, which is REALLY what HDMI 2.0 is all about, you can do 4:2:2 with 8-, 10- or 12-bit colour of 4:4:4 with 8-bit. Anything above that and you run out of gas. Given that UHD is a combination of three things: "More pixels", "Better pixels" and "Faster Pixels" it is likely that the latter two will be where the concentration goes as the "More Pixels" is common to all 4K/UHD displays. The fact that ESPN showed 60p content at CES shows the direction things are going in with regard to "Faster". The call for better color in the form of HDR and 10-bit schemes shows where the "Better" is going. Here's my concern: We've been told we have to absorb the price increase on the XMC-1 to accommodate Dirac. OK, for those to whom that is important, that's the way it is. Now we were told that it would be "fully HDMI 2.0". OPPS! Now we're told "Just kidding, it's 1.4b". Ah, but it's upgradeable. Great, but then how much will we have to pay to have the new board installed. Call it "modular" if you will, but to me modular means I open a hatch, pull out a board and slide another in. Taking the cover off, unscrewing things, hoping that all goes well to put it back together properly isn't what some of us want in this sort of product. I guess I just feel let down here and thus the need to vent. A few other points: - There ARE displays that have HDCP 2.2 using Panasonic's silicon solutions. - Yes, the same Panasonic sets also have DisplayPort, but the market dynamics don't indicate a sudden shift to DisplayPort anywhere outside of the PC world. - For the reasons stated in the article references by Mr. State, it is highly unlikely that chips already in products will be upgradeable to HDCP 2.2. Doing that with code in the open will expose it to something that can potentially be broken and the HDCP people don't want THAT to happen AGAIN. The HDCP key is baked into the chip. - The HDCP keys ARE backwards compatible. Never a dull moment! |
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Post by monkumonku on Feb 15, 2014 14:05:02 GMT -5
With the processor being this close to release. I wonder when they knew about HDMI 2. I imagine it would have been found out the moment one actually looked at the feature sheet much less managed to successfully integrate it into a processor. For instance I found it was the chip not HDMI 2 in about ten seconds using google and THREE mouse clicks. It was on the very first page. lmgtfy.com/?q=ADV7625Clicked the first link. On the very first page. Kind of makes one wonder how close to release this actually is, no? Just think about what you said and then put a timeline together logically. But then it makes you wonder, since Garbulky was able to find this so quickly, when Dan first made his announcement about 2.0, why didn't anyone else think to verify what he said? Understandably a lot of people are disappointed and he jumped the gun, but his explanation yesterday makes sense and regardless, the status of 2.0 is what it is. I have a feeling a lot of people can't make use of it anyway, it's just nice to say you have HDMI 2.0. If Dan had said the XMC-1 will have HDMI 5.0 and USB 6.0, people would have gone wild heaping praise on him even though no such thing exists and when he then said that the XMC-1 would NOT have these two things, the flurry of complaints would begin. People get more upset when you take away something they never had in the first place, than when you don't give it to begin with. |
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Post by ÈlTwo on Feb 15, 2014 14:26:24 GMT -5
Have we had a discussion yet about capability vs. certification?
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Post by Davecski65 on Feb 15, 2014 14:27:37 GMT -5
Time for POPCORN
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2014 14:42:24 GMT -5
Kind of makes one wonder how close to release this actually is, no? Just think about what you said and then put a timeline together logically. But then it makes you wonder, since Garbulky was able to find this so quickly, when Dan first made his announcement about 2.0, why didn't anyone else think to verify what he said? Understandably a lot of people are disappointed and he jumped the gun, but his explanation yesterday makes sense and regardless, the status of 2.0 is what it is. I have a feeling a lot of people can't make use of it anyway, it's just nice to say you have HDMI 2.0. If Dan had said the XMC-1 will have HDMI 5.0 and USB 6.0, people would have gone wild heaping praise on him even though no such thing exists and when he then said that the XMC-1 would NOT have these two things, the flurry of complaints would begin. People get more upset when you take away something they never had in the first place, than when you don't give it to begin with. Really? So we shouldn't take the word of the owner of the company? thats bonkers man, if he said it has hdmi 2.0, why would anyone have to verify what he said? If we have to verify everything, that would mean they don't know anything and why would anyone want to buy anything from them then if we have to figure out what features it does or doesn't have on our own..... |
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stiehl11
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Post by stiehl11 on Feb 15, 2014 14:47:34 GMT -5
IBTL
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Feb 15, 2014 14:52:45 GMT -5
Moving on...Next up is the shipping date. I see a ship date for the new receiver (perfect for someone like my younger bro) of 3/20/2014. XMC-1 ship date? Surely, if this is being built in house vs coming from China, a ship date would be much easier to predict/schedule with better accuracy. And no I won't call you Shirley. You can actually add to cart the 8100 receiver with it shipping 3/20/2014. If my XMC-1 is shipping within a month, sign me up...I'll pay my upgrade for life $$$ now...you know for cash flow reasons. I *think* the reason the XMC cannot be added to a shopping cart is due to the fact there so many pre-orders. Emotiva needs to sort through who on the pre-orders still want their XMC before making it available for purchase straight away. I think if they allowed it to be purchased (added to a shopping cart) before the five-year long pre-order list was completed would only serve to upset a lot of long time customers. Good point. Darn! Lol. I was just offering so I can get mine right away. Good thing there appears to be a lot of gun shy folks on the list...I'm not waiting. |
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kse
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Post by kse on Feb 15, 2014 15:06:40 GMT -5
Understandably a lot of people are disappointed and he jumped the gun, but his explanation yesterday makes sense and regardless, the status of 2.0 is what it is. I have a feeling a lot of people can't make use of it anyway, it's just nice to say you have HDMI 2.0. If Dan had said the XMC-1 will have HDMI 5.0 and USB 6.0, people would have gone wild heaping praise on him even though no such thing exists and when he then said that the XMC-1 would NOT have these two things, the flurry of complaints would begin. People get more upset when you take away something they never had in the first place, than when you don't give it to begin with. Spot on, but we can't blame the faithful here (the consumer). They, Emotiva, do this stuff time and time and time again. Seriously, they need to tune out from the Lounge, stop being baited into sharing what is believed (wishful of not) to be accurate info, step away from the keyboard, and focus on developing their product(s), and when they're ready, they're ready. Knee-jerk reactions to unknown surprises within practically the same breath does not portray long term focus, planning and organization. Sorry, but it's true. |
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Post by weigle2 on Feb 15, 2014 15:07:00 GMT -5
I think we all understand this, and for most of us the lack of "true 2.0" isn't an issue. The issue is Emotiva made a bold claim about the product, sent out an email with that claim, and then went, "Whoops, we didn't do our homework properly. It's actually not quite what we just told you a couple of weeks ago." Dan didn't address this before hand. He made an inaccurate claim before hand, and then offered an explanation after the truth was revealed. I'm sure he's not happy about the situation, and I personally still think the XMC looks like a great product, but Emotiva needs to get their act together in terms of communicating with their customers and enthusiasts on this board. Saying "We think we'll be able to claim HDMI 2.0, we'll keep you updated" in a forum post is a LOT different than claiming "Full HDMI 2.0 and 4K Capability" in a mass email. No argument against that! I would have been disappointed about it too... I heard the podcast about hdmi2.0 and later the forum post.... I didnt know about the email though.... Well it's not the first time something like this happens...maybe for those that have preordered and waited years for it, they could get the UHD hdmi board for free when it becomes available? As an apology for the whole situation? I don't see getting a 'free' HDMI 2.0 board when it becomes available. By the time it does, it will be time, and the industry will have changed enough, that it will be time to upgrade. This whole pitch of the XMC-1 being the last pre/pro needed for the next 10 to 15 years, is marketing. Ain't gonna happen. I believe it's time for a change at Emotiva, put Cathy Laufman in charge of all press releases and updates for anything related to their products. Women, in general, can keep secrets much better. |
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Feb 15, 2014 15:07:08 GMT -5
I have a tendency to not criticize or not be a back seat driver, especially when I don't have all the possible facts that go into decisions. Secondly I've never walked a mile in Dan's shoes, so saying I could do a better job than he will never happen until I have. As for making one wonder, why do so many keep coming back if they still aren't interested in what Emotiva has to offer, or is it some want to always be the one to say "I Told You So"? Whatever the case may be, I appreciate Dan's dedication and passion for his customers to bring products that we want to market.
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Post by bluescale on Feb 15, 2014 15:22:05 GMT -5
Seriously, they need to tune out from the Lounge, stop being baited into sharing what is believed (wishful of not) to be accurate info, step away from the keyboard, and focus on developing their product(s), and when they're ready, they're ready. Knee-jerk reactions to unknown surprises within practically the same breath does not portray long term focus, planning and organization. Sorry, but it's true. As an Internet direct company that thrives on connecting directly with their customers, they cannot afford to tune out. It's the basis of their business model. They need to get better at estimation and consistent communication. Emotiva vacillates wildly between over communicating and under communicating. A steady stream of information (when it's ready and vetted), without promises would go a long way toward dealing with some of the trust issues. Oh, and despite my low post count, I've been a customer of theirs since they were selling their wares through AV123. I dig what they have to offer, but it can certainly be painful to watch the pre-release debacles. Anyway, I'll keep waiting with bated breath for my pre-order to be fulfilled. |
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Post by solidstate on Feb 15, 2014 15:27:28 GMT -5
No argument against that! I would have been disappointed about it too... I heard the podcast about hdmi2.0 and later the forum post.... I didnt know about the email though.... Well it's not the first time something like this happens...maybe for those that have preordered and waited years for it, they could get the UHD hdmi board for free when it becomes available? As an apology for the whole situation? I don't see getting a 'free' HDMI 2.0 board when it becomes available. By the time it does, it will be time, and the industry will have changed enough, that it will be time to upgrade. This whole pitch of the XMC-1 being the last pre/pro needed for the next 10 to 15 years, is marketing. Ain't gonna happen. I believe it's time for a change at Emotiva, put Cathy Laufman in charge of all press releases and updates for anything related to their products. Women, in general, can keep secrets much better. After HDMI2.x (prob by .2 it will be perfected) what more could possibly be done? I think at that point the technology would have reached a pinnacle. 4K DTS-HD sources are on par with theatrical releases for the most part. Perhaps another room correction system might appear but other than that... There is no new fandangled AV tech on the horizon. PS I hope to see outboard DACs from pre/proc. |
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Feb 15, 2014 15:31:24 GMT -5
No argument against that! I would have been disappointed about it too... I heard the podcast about hdmi2.0 and later the forum post.... I didnt know about the email though.... Well it's not the first time something like this happens...maybe for those that have preordered and waited years for it, they could get the UHD hdmi board for free when it becomes available? As an apology for the whole situation? I don't see getting a 'free' HDMI 2.0 board when it becomes available. By the time it does, it will be time, and the industry will have changed enough, that it will be time to upgrade. This whole pitch of the XMC-1 being the last pre/pro needed for the next 10 to 15 years, is marketing. Ain't gonna happen. I believe it's time for a change at Emotiva, put Cathy Laufman in charge of all press releases and updates for anything related to their products. Women, in general, can keep secrets much better. Yeah right. Cathy is mean...forget that . Also, the upgrades will not be free nor should they be. The biggest limitation is the number of channels. If 9.2 or 11.2 becomes the norm, then the XMC-1 will be obsolete. Especially with the former Theta guy in charge don't count on upgrades being a certainty...but conversely with the former theta guy, I'm confident it'll sound awesome. I don't care about 2.0 and I care less about the upgrade factor. I'm buying it as is... What's the point of 25% for life now? Do we get 25% off of upgrade parts? Who would ever pay full price? Lol. Just kidding. |
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Post by solidstate on Feb 15, 2014 15:32:56 GMT -5
I don't see getting a 'free' HDMI 2.0 board when it becomes available. By the time it does, it will be time, and the industry will have changed enough, that it will be time to upgrade. This whole pitch of the XMC-1 being the last pre/pro needed for the next 10 to 15 years, is marketing. Ain't gonna happen. I believe it's time for a change at Emotiva, put Cathy Laufman in charge of all press releases and updates for anything related to their products. Women, in general, can keep secrets much better. Yeah right. Cathy is mean...forget that . Also, the upgrades will not be free nor should they be. The biggest limitation is the number of channels. If 9.2 or 11.2 becomes the norm, then the XMC-1 will be obsolete. So I agree it probably won't happen. Especially with the former Theta guy in charge...but conversely with the former theta guy, I'm confident it'll sound awesome. I don't care about 2.0 and I care less about the upgrade factor. I'm buying it as is. 9.2 or 11.2 will never become the norm. 90% are 5.1! Huge speakers counts for home use IMHO is ridiculous unless you live in a McMansion. IMHO 7.2 is the most any home user would need unless they have a dedicated room seating 10-20 people. |
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Post by solidstate on Feb 15, 2014 15:41:54 GMT -5
With the processor being this close to release. I wonder when they knew about HDMI 2. I imagine it would have been found out the moment one actually looked at the feature sheet much less managed to successfully integrate it into a processor. For instance I found it was the chip not HDMI 2 in about ten seconds using google and THREE mouse clicks. It was on the very first page. I think that maybe they had a look and saw the adv7625 [ which is the latest flagship hdmi transceiver from AD www.businesswire.com/news/home/20140107005027/en/Crosspoint-Transceivers-Distribute-Wide-Range-Ultra-High-Definition-Home#.Uv-nwPmSy4I ] and saw that it is capable of uhd 4k @ 25/30fps and said hdmi 2.0 as many associate 4k with 2.0 Reminds me when hdmi.org started saying dont associate the revision No with what you want ; do it by features needed ... Of course thats been ignored and everyone fixates on the No - me included I get a great kick out of other brands marketing 1.4 as ''4k ready'' - throw it out there and see if it sticks lol Nonetheless they should have realized it's a 300Mhz TDMS transceiver not a dual channel 600Mhz TDMS transceiver. I believe HDMI2.0 uses two 300Mhz buses to achieve 600Mhz bandwidth. SI is the only outfit to release a part so far. This AD device will push 4K at current distro formats into a HDMI 2.x sink BUT if the "type 1" flag is coming outta the source IE a 4K-BD then your screwed because the AD7625 is HDCP 1.8 The "type 1" flag forces the HDMI link from transport to sink to only work with a HDCP 2.2+ path. We don't know yet how strict they are going to be with this. My assumption is TYPE 1 FLAG WILL BE ENFORCED especially considering the breaches the last decade in secure distro media and end user transport. |
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Reminds me when hdmi.org started saying dont associate the revision No with what you want ; do it by features needed ... Of course thats been ignored and everyone fixates on the No - me included 
