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Post by Jim on Feb 15, 2014 19:35:44 GMT -5
At the end of the day, the XMC-1 will likely be a great unit and lots of people will enjoy it. The XMC-1 has been one heck of a ride since it was announced but if emotiva puts out a good unit, it will likely be forgotten pretty quickly. Hopefully the RMC-1 learns from the mistakes of the XMC-1 since at it's supposed price range, it better be damn near perfect. I agree. I think that most people share your sentiments. I think the bar is high, and Emotiva knows it. |
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Post by creimes on Feb 15, 2014 19:39:31 GMT -5
Man these threads get old, I would just like to get the XMC-1 and enjoy it and all these debate threads get tiresome  Respectfully, Chad |
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Post by RightinLA on Feb 15, 2014 20:06:02 GMT -5
Only the dumb and blind defend this situation. It's not even about hdmi 2.0. It's about incompetence of Emotiva's leadership and they think us the consumer is dumb (I agree with them on this point after reading all of your responses) I know lots more agree with me. I'm just the only one to say it here I'm done. Unless I'm addressed directly This reminds me of the wife who is in an abusive relationship. "But he does it cause he cares so much about me " Perhaps some didn't notice the big announcement about " Going Beyond Expectations" made at the end of January. That was a little more than two weeks ago. What technical review and decision making led to such a statement and its refutation by the opening post of this thread? That is what is being questioned. This after all, comes after several years of similar misstatements and promises etc. etc. etc. about the XMC-1. Jan 29, 2014 at 7:02pm LCSeminole, alhull and 30 more like this. Post by Dan Laufman on Jan 29, 2014 at 7:02pm |
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Post by reddman71 on Feb 15, 2014 20:43:30 GMT -5
Man these threads get old, I would just like to get the XMC-1 and enjoy it and all these debate threads get tiresome Respectfully, Chad Your thoughts mirror many who are waiting on the XMC-1. They're ready to get it and enjoy it the same as you but the continued delays no matter the reason have only increased their frustrations. That's why these types of threads lead to so many heated discussions. |
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Post by geebo on Feb 15, 2014 20:44:02 GMT -5
Here is a phone number some of you may need. 1(800) Waaahhh.
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Post by Jim on Feb 15, 2014 20:49:54 GMT -5
Here is a phone number some of you may need. 1(800) Waaahhh. Can you register an 800 number with google voice? That has so much potential.... |
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Post by Davecski65 on Feb 15, 2014 20:51:07 GMT -5
what they said^^^^^^^^^+11111
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Post by aud on Feb 15, 2014 20:53:31 GMT -5
Look for the XMC-1 in April.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2014 20:54:48 GMT -5
Look for the XMC-1 in April. Haha good joke |
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Post by garbulky on Feb 15, 2014 20:59:18 GMT -5
I got to confess I'm not 100% sure what you mean. (But I admire the passion you have). Could you describe maybe in more simple terms what this is and also where it says that it does in the XMC-1 description? Is it in the second audio zone section? Because I didn't see anything about HDMI there. HDMI carries audio and video right garbulky. It enters the XMC-1 and passes onto the AD7625. The AD7625 is a TDMS transceiver that has the ability to take that HDMI input or TDMS signal and then pass the video onto the HDMI 1 or HDMI 2 outputs and perhaps the audio as well. When we say it's matrixed we are saying that it has the ability to pass video from two of the selected inputs DISCRETELY and to pass the signal onto one of the two outputs and to be able to do this simultaneously IE selected HDMI input 3 to go to HDMI output 1 whilst HDMI input 4 is sent to HDMI output 2. ALAS!!! What about audio! Well the audio is also entering that AD7625 from your HDMI source right. Well it has to pass this audio onto the DSP engine to be decoded into multiple channels and in this case it's a TI twin DA710. The bus used to pass this signal is called I2S or Integrated Interchip Sound. Most HDMI or TDMS transceivers can only pass ONE I2S stream from one of it's selected HDMI inputs and send it onto the DSP. This is due to technical restraints involving HDCP keys et al. and that ability of that transceiver to pull the audio outta two TDMS streams SIMULTANEOUSLY and pass them via two I2S buses onto the DSP engine. Well this is only part of the battle. The DSP engine has to then have the ability to process both audio streams and matrix the audio to either main zone outs or second zone outs. A lot of gear does this but usually the audio switching is done IN THE ANALOG DOMAIN in order to pass audio to the second zone outs. In some instances they use the SP/DIF into DSP but mostly matrixed audio is done with analog and microcontrollers. It's also important to realize the DSP engine in these case scenarios is taking one multi chan mux and sending it to it's DACs but generally the second zone is only stereo in terms of output DACs. In some cases though I've seen in RARELY the audio part of the mux will pass out the HDMI output but you'll need another device at the end with a DSP engine to decode the multi channels right. In most cases I've seen the audio if DTS-HD or other lossless it's not passed out the HDMI output. Generally it's a 2 channel audio signal if any signal at all. OK So what is the cross point thing? Remember our TDMS stream has a video AND audio component. Matrixing the stream to video outputs whilst decoding the audio FROM ONLY ONE OF THEM and perhaps passing an SP/DIF signal from the second source to a stereo DAC is OK and fine and dandy BUT cross pointing is taking that AV MUX and breaking it down into it's audio and video components and then again matrix switching BUT with each component IE audio/video DISCRETELY. This means not only could I watch HDMI input 3 on HDMI output 1 and decode HDMI 3s I2S stream I could also if I so wanted switch the audio to HDMI input 4 currently being sent out HDMI 2 and listen to it in zone 1 in multi channel. Remember though I'm currently switched to HDMI input 3 and it's going out HDMI output 1 into my TV BUT the audio I'm getting out the speakers is from HDMI input 4. This is what A/V cross point is. Not only matrixing the AV as a single TDMS stream but having the ability to break that stream into it's components (audio and video) and matrix switch each discretely. We have not had the ability to do this until very recently because once the stream is converted to I2S it's NOT PROTECTED so this involves HDCP decrypting and a bunch of other stuff I'd have a hard time explaining to you guys. Basically it involves dual HDCP decryption engines on the TDMS transceiver and the ability to cache KSV/EDID data. Thanks for the thought you put into that reply. I guess I'm not technical minded enough or familiar with most of these concepts. So from what I'm gathering basically you can take the input from two different HDMI's and specify independently which HDMI output it goes to. And maybe something to do with rerouting the audio stream? Anyway, I think this thread has gotten a little hectic. So I'll bow out. Thanks again for trying to explain that to me. |
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Post by monkumonku on Feb 15, 2014 21:01:56 GMT -5
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Lsc
Emo VIPs 
Posts: 3,435
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Post by Lsc on Feb 15, 2014 21:07:33 GMT -5
I agree both sides should chime in. You got the Emo haters and the Emo lemmings then you have me.  A well educated, handsome guy with awesome taste for audio equipment. [deleted - I was out of line] I love my Emo gear, I'm a big fan of what Big Dan has produced and he is a pretty nice guy. But just to give you an idea what a big picture guy he is, he didn't even remember how much the XPR retailed for at Emofest. This doesn't excuse him or his company of not sending out a correction email after the initial email. Hindsight is 20/20 but in most eyes that would have been sufficient...and if it's not then so be it but that's all they are responsible for. They reserve the right to change the specs. Once again to those who have comprehension issues, it's not about having 2.0 but the bait and switch. I couldn't care less about 2.0 for the reasons people have stated...but I already know that...that's why I don't care!  Moving forward, to those sitting this one out, I'll be sure to provide a detailed review. I'll a/b the XMC-1 with the UMC-200 and even pit the XMC-1 against the XDA-2 in direct mode. This will help the doubting Thomas's make their decisions. Back to enjoying my great speakers powered by great Emo gear...talk to you in a few...ta ta . |
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Post by Topend on Feb 15, 2014 21:19:30 GMT -5
One person here has described people as a liar, apologists, dumb and blind. That is not in the spirit of a friendly debate.
Dave.
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Post by aud on Feb 15, 2014 21:20:30 GMT -5
Look for the XMC-1 in April. Haha good joke No joke. See their mini web site. XMC-1.com |
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Post by monkumonku on Feb 15, 2014 21:23:41 GMT -5
Let the record show the more the Emo haters bash the more the Emo lemmings will come to hug Dan's nuts. If Steve Jobs were on this lounge he'd probably get bashed as well because he didn't know all the details of stuff. Visionaries think in different ways than the number crunchers or administrative folks. Granted, Apple and Steve Jobs were very secretive when it came to info on upcoming releases, and Jobs waited for the grand premier and all the hoopla it brought to announce new products but if Apple had a forum and he participated in it, I think you might hear things in the same vein from him as we hear from Dan. And it's not like Apple stuff was/is perfect. Yeah, things ought to be like they are announced and I wish they were but it just don't always work out that way. |
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Post by solidstate on Feb 15, 2014 21:24:43 GMT -5
I agree both sides should chime in. You got the Emo haters and the Emo lemmings then you have me. A well educated, handsome guy with awesome taste for audio equipment. Let the record show the more the Emo haters bash the more the Emo lemmings will come to hug Dan's nuts. This language is intentional because if it offends, than you are on one side or another. Both are in the extreme and both suck a$$. I love my Emo gear, I'm a big fan of what Big Dan has produced and he is a pretty nice guy. But just to give you an idea what a big picture guy he is, he didn't even remember how much the XPR retailed for at Emofest. This doesn't excuse him or his company of not sending out a correction email after the initial email. Hindsight is 20/20 but in most eyes that would have been sufficient...and if it's not then so be it but that's all they are responsible for. They reserve the right to change the specs. Once again to those who have comprehension issues, it's not about having 2.0 but the bait and switch. I couldn't care less about 2.0 for the reasons people have stated...but I already know that...that's why I don't care! Moving forward, to those sitting this one out, I'll be sure to provide a detailed review. I'll a/b the XMC-1 with the UMC-200 and even pit the XMC-1 against the XDA-2 in direct mode. This will help the doubting Thomas's make their decisions. Back to enjoying my great speakers powered by great Emo gear...talk to you in a few...ta ta . I agree with most of what your saying but to claim it's a bate and switch is a steaming pile of BS. How could it be when the product hasn't even shipped? I could understand this claim if it was purchased ALREADY under the pretense it has HDMI 2.x but this is not the case is it so why make such a claim if not only to incite? Yeah Dan thought it passed full spec 2.0 because it can pass 4k and can do 1080p120Hz not realizing it's a rare HDMI 1.4b part with the B being the important point. I'll never do 4k 3D at 10bit 4:4:4 for some years but I will do 1080p 120Hz 3D and the fact I can pass a 120Hz 1080p signal down that HDMI 1.4b link is fantastic for PC 5:5 processing IE converting 1080p24 to 1080p120 at the PC transport or potentially STB/disc transport I personally think 4K HDMI2.0 is borked without 4:4:4 and 120Hz active 3D native transport! We all should realize there is ZERO CONTENT currently anyway and the 4K streams you guys will get off of netflix devices etc will pass the signal IF your sink/display in combination with your source doesn't enforce the soon to be dreaded "type 1" flag... None of the currently deployed HDMI TDMS xmiters that I know of support HDCP greater than 1.8 anyway so those devices if they have the faster TDMS clock will STILL BE ABLE TO PASS 4K 2D TO YOUR 4K DISPLAYS and do so with the XMC-1!!! |
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LCSeminole
Global Moderator 
Res firma mitescere nescit.
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Post by LCSeminole on Feb 15, 2014 21:37:16 GMT -5
To all members, there is nothing wrong with negative postings, but the moderators and admin won't tolerate disrespectful and uncivil remarks. If they persists after this post, look for edits/deletions/warnings/loss of Lounge priviledges. We're all adults here and while some here are the more bold keyboard warrior type, I won't allow this thread to get any more out of control than it already is, so please keep it respectful and civil. Thank you for all members cooperation.
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Post by pop on Feb 15, 2014 21:37:54 GMT -5
Sorry my grammar was off. Lonnie is the lead engineer and he did say hdmi 2.0 Apologists mount up!! And if 30 people worked on this one unit and it's STILL not out...then thank heavens they arent surgeons!! Why why why must people continue to make excuses for emotiva and Dan and his major major downfalls as a president. Regardless if he is the engineer or the janitor if he speaks on emo behalf he should know 100000% when it will ship and know what the hell he is talking about when it comes to hdmi. You aren't buying it, why do you care so much? You don't vote you don't complain. I think the reason why you are being attacked is because your posts are more "I told you so" than anything else. You are coming across as having something personal against this, like someone owes you something. Like your blood is boiling over something you have been very vocal about not purchasing....? I guess I can slightly see your degree of frustrations, but you are not being productive. I said it before, the HDMI 2.0 was a sales strategy, but in the end of the day is it really that big of a deal? It doesn't have 2.0, you need that? Don't buy it. It wasn't going to have 2.0 in 2008, It wasn't going to have it in 2013. The XMC-1 is going to be what it is. WHEN it is released, and I don't plan on seeing it shipped out for some months. Is Dan a "liar", I highly doubt that. Excited and speaking too soon? Sure. We are all guilty of that many times over. I agree that over promising is not good...Not good at all. It causes posts like this, but be the bigger man. I don't see how Dan and the crew deserve this from you seeing as how you aren't even interested in the product. Your posts could deteriorate this company to undeserving outside eyes, and are completely asinine. I'm baffled. You are punishing this product for people who don't care to get personal with Dan and Emotiva, while Devaluing what could be a fantastic product. You don't even want to buy it....? I am surprised you haven't been hushed yet. |
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Post by solidstate on Feb 15, 2014 21:40:44 GMT -5
I honestly don't know of any others that would be this open with the public. I know at least one ID speaker company that is just as open (if not more so) on their public forums, and I have seen them handle communicating production delays and feature changes in a much more consumer-friendly way than what we've seen from Emotiva in recent years. I know speaker development is a different beast than complicated electronics development, but the way in which information regarding the products is shared with the community does not have to be different. I feel like Emotiva was better at this back in '08 when I first discovered them and purchased an XPA-5. People in this industry have been watching as audio video processors have become very complex and a lot of small EE design houses simply lack the ability to design such a complex component due to lack of software development skills and other factors. They might be amazing audio engineers that can design great amps and even implement microcontroller control/monitoring and design great tube amps or a nice analog balanced preamp but that's a hell of a lot shy of programming a sophisticated DSP engine tied to HDMI AV transport with a video overlay and multi channel decoding with zone switching! There is many thousands of lines of code involved in doing something as simple as switching audio video HDMI sources as I described above! At this point pride and ego is involved and I assure you Dan and friends will deliver the best product they are capable of designing and implementing. Yep, I agree with this, and I am certainly excited to get my hands on one of these in my home to try out. I like the vision Dan and friends have for the XMC, and if it delivers on that vision when it is finally released I will be a happy camper. Sucks it has had such a bumpy road so far... IT HAS BEEN ONE HELL OF A BUMPY ROAD!!! We should all be cutting them some slack just on that basis alone! My god people Dan and friends have literally trashed three major designs easy and lost HUGE $$$ just because it didn't meet Dan's standards for what he envisions the product should be. This alone should lead credence to his intents to deliver the best product he can. |
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Post by aud on Feb 15, 2014 21:41:50 GMT -5
Look for the XMC-1 in April.
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A well educated, handsome guy with awesome taste for audio equipment. 
