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Post by monkumonku on Mar 25, 2014 16:24:03 GMT -5
Hey, anything to help you sell it! Personally, that is a crazy good price for that sub, cat scratches or not. I would buy it if you were local to me. The Xref's are great subs for music. What I like about them is how bass notes are distinct (so you can actually tell what note it is, not just a low frequency noise) and it is well-defined. No flabbiness. If you want something more for HT then I'd go elsewhere but for music, these are great.  That's what I don't really get about subs; how can it be musical (ie good for music) but not good for home theatre? A flabby sub for music is going to give flabby sound in explosions. Maybe it's not as easy to detect, but I doubt it; listen to the same explosion with a "musical" sub and the same explosion on some other non-musical sub and I bet the sound is better in the "musical" one. In my uninformed, highly opinionated opinion, there is no such thing as a musical sub; it either plays back clean, tight, accurate bass, or it doesn't. The sub doesn't differentiate b/n music or explosion, bass is bass. You may notice the effects of a poorly performing sub more quickly in a musical setting, but how does that make me feel better? "Well gee I'm hearing a lot of noise, I'm not sure whether it's part of the movie or just my sub disintegrating but it sure sounds swell to me".  That is true. I say the same thing when people talk about speakers for music versus HT. What I meant was that the Xref's do well for music but not as good for HT when requiring things like very high volumes for explosions and stuff. A good sub should be a good sub, so if you have one that is good, it should be good, period. That said, I think a lot of people mistake flabbiness in bass with being "good bass" because it hangs around so long and makes everything vibrate. It's easier to get away with poor bass in an explosion than with listening to music. |
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Post by siggie on Mar 25, 2014 16:59:34 GMT -5
That's what I don't really get about subs; how can it be musical (ie good for music) but not good for home theatre? A flabby sub for music is going to give flabby sound in explosions. Maybe it's not as easy to detect, but I doubt it; listen to the same explosion with a "musical" sub and the same explosion on some other non-musical sub and I bet the sound is better in the "musical" one. In my uninformed, highly opinionated opinion, there is no such thing as a musical sub; it either plays back clean, tight, accurate bass, or it doesn't. The sub doesn't differentiate b/n music or explosion, bass is bass. You may notice the effects of a poorly performing sub more quickly in a musical setting, but how does that make me feel better? "Well gee I'm hearing a lot of noise, I'm not sure whether it's part of the movie or just my sub disintegrating but it sure sounds swell to me". That is true. I say the same thing when people talk about speakers for music versus HT. What I meant was that the Xref's do well for music but not as good for HT when requiring things like very high volumes for explosions and stuff. A good sub should be a good sub, so if you have one that is good, it should be good, period. That said, I think a lot of people mistake flabbiness in bass with being "good bass" because it hangs around so long and makes everything vibrate. It's easier to get away with poor bass in an explosion than with listening to music. I'm with monkumonku. I have an Ultrasub 12, which is the X-Ref 12 with a weaker amp, I believe, and it sounds much better for music than my previous Bic America ported sub, and it also shakes the walls and scares my daughter during action movies. I guess if you're only into home theater you can get more slam for your buck with a ported sub,but a nice powerful sealed "musical" sub will do movies and music better that a "home theater sub." siggie |
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LCSeminole
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Res firma mitescere nescit.
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Post by LCSeminole on Mar 25, 2014 17:23:41 GMT -5
We've been told for well over 4+ years that a "top-o-the-line" subwoofer is in the works. I've given up waiting...rarely do I even check the boards anymore. Emotiva's word means very little to me these days. It's a real shame honestly. I was a very early adopter of Emotiva products, when few people even were talking about them. Looks like it may be time to move on and spend my money elsewhere. Hopefully you haven't been doing without subs for 4+ year, but to each their own. Not sure why you wouldn't have already bought a subwoofer or subwoofers that met your needs, I did, an SVS PB12-Plus DSP, about 2.5 years ago and then went dual with what I initially bought from SVS about a year ago. If Emotiva has a product that meets my needs at the time I'm ready to buy, then I seriously consider them, if not, I go with what a product that does. Simple as that. Maybe you'll come back and give us a review on what you do end up with?  |
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Post by briank on Mar 25, 2014 18:27:50 GMT -5
We've been told for well over 4+ years that a "top-o-the-line" subwoofer is in the works. I've given up waiting...rarely do I even check the boards anymore. Emotiva's word means very little to me these days. It's a real shame honestly. I was a very early adopter of Emotiva products, when few people even were talking about them. Looks like it may be time to move on and spend my money elsewhere. Hopefully you haven't been doing without subs for 4+ year, but to each their own. Not sure why you wouldn't have already bought a subwoofer or subwoofers that met your needs, I did, an SVS PB12-Plus DSP, about 2.5 years ago and then went dual with what I initially bought from SVS about a year ago. If Emotiva has a product that meets my needs at the time I'm ready to buy, then I seriously consider them, if not, I go with what a product that does. Simple as that. Maybe you'll come back and give us a review on what you do end up with? Ditto. I just hooked up my new Paradigm Sub 15 last night. I needed a sub, no Emotiva one available, so just picked something else. No biggie. |
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Post by pop on Mar 25, 2014 18:29:06 GMT -5
The Xref12 is a fantastic subwoofer for the right sized room with music and movies. If you get it in a abyssal living room like mine it just gets lost. If it had a companion they would operate quite well in a bigger room.
If I put mine in my bedroom it would pump things up quick. If it doesn't sell this is most likely what I will do. When I had it in my tiny bedroom at the old house it was almost overkill.
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Mar 25, 2014 18:53:02 GMT -5
Ditto. I just hooked up my new Paradigm Sub 15 last night. I needed a sub, no Emotiva one available, so just picked something else. No biggie. Nice!!! I've seen the Sub 15 in Rosenut, and it's quite beautiful. What finish did you get? and I know you're gonna let us know what you think of it right? |
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Post by pedrocols on Mar 25, 2014 19:13:46 GMT -5
Hopefully you haven't been doing without subs for 4+ year, but to each their own. Not sure why you wouldn't have already bought a subwoofer or subwoofers that met your needs, I did, an SVS PB12-Plus DSP, about 2.5 years ago and then went dual with what I initially bought from SVS about a year ago. If Emotiva has a product that meets my needs at the time I'm ready to buy, then I seriously consider them, if not, I go with what a product that does. Simple as that. Maybe you'll come back and give us a review on what you do end up with? Ditto. I just hooked up my new Paradigm Sub 15 last night. I needed a sub, no Emotiva one available, so just picked something else. No biggie. It isn't about just picking up something else as you can get a very very good subwoofer even if emotiva will never release one. |
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Post by briank on Mar 25, 2014 19:25:16 GMT -5
Ditto. I just hooked up my new Paradigm Sub 15 last night. I needed a sub, no Emotiva one available, so just picked something else. No biggie. Nice!!! I've seen the Sub 15 in Rosenut, and it's quite beautiful. What finish did you get? and I know you're gonna let us know what you think of it right? Of course! As soon as they break in a little. I went with the Piano Black to match the Black base on the Revel towers. I don't mind the extra dusting. Lol |
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Post by lsdeep on Mar 25, 2014 19:53:00 GMT -5
i don't get this subwoofer madness at all. i guess for ht it makes sense, so it might for ppl with very small rooms using 'bookshelf' speakers. i personally prefer a speaker that covers 'top to bottom'.
a lot less hassle to get the sound just right. have to say, i am a die-hard 2 channel audio fan. my transmission line speakers deliver so much bass, many subwoofers would look like 'mid-support'. for ht/ video that might be a diff story.
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Post by aud on Mar 25, 2014 19:54:11 GMT -5
I am very pleased with my Xref subs but they are not for bassheads who like weakening the foundations of their houses. They don't go as deep as other subs, or play as loudly. I like mine because they are very musical and they also go loud and deep enough for me but I can see how others would not be satisfied. With all the excellent sub makers out there, I don't think it behooves Emo to try and dent that market since the others are well established and make good products. Aside from a lower price point, what could they offer that other companies don't offer already? I think the Xref series filled a niche - a good quality sub at a reasonable price that was musical and compact, and had built-in PEQ. I'm not sure how much demand there is for something like that versus subs that have higher and deeper output, though. Very good points! I have always liked sealed subwoofers. They do tend to be more musical. Many years ago I finally escaped the theory that you only need one sub. When I want knew subs I always purchase a minimum of two smaller subs but I completely understand why most people don't or can't do this. For me, two xRef-12 subs, for my music only system, ended up making me very happy. |
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Post by pedrocols on Mar 25, 2014 20:06:27 GMT -5
i don't get this subwoofer madness at all. i guess for ht it makes sense, so it might for ppl with very small rooms using 'bookshelf' speakers. i personally prefer a speaker that covers 'top to bottom'. a lot less hassle to get the sound just right. have to say, i am a die-hard 2 channel audio fan. my transmission line speakers deliver so much bass, many subwoofers would look like 'mid-support'. for ht/ video that might be a diff story. Some argue you can have better low frequency response by having a properly placed subwoofer or subwoofers. |
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Post by oregonbill on Mar 25, 2014 20:12:23 GMT -5
I value your opinion and I have to agree it plays clean or it does not.
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Post by pop on Mar 25, 2014 20:17:00 GMT -5
i don't get this subwoofer madness at all. i guess for ht it makes sense, so it might for ppl with very small rooms using 'bookshelf' speakers. i personally prefer a speaker that covers 'top to bottom'. a lot less hassle to get the sound just right. have to say, i am a die-hard 2 channel audio fan. my transmission line speakers deliver so much bass, many subwoofers would look like 'mid-support'. for ht/ video that might be a diff story. Maybe you should try a big bad motha humpin sub and see what the hoopla is about? I have two 15s that I use for my stereo configuration and it sounds incredible. Of course I would like "top to bottom" speakers, but what if you listen to modern reggae, hip hop, rap, electronic? I guarantee you will be missing the thump. Or you might not miss it if you didn't know it could be there? If I had capable towers I would still have a sub in the works. I was completely anti big bass. I took the recommendations of some friends and forum members here. I could not be happier. I thought I didn't like too much bass. Wrong, I just had never heard really tight articulate bass before. I don't know if I will ever be a strict 2 channel guy. I haven't heard speakers that I think would do justice to my music like it is being done now. I get that most music doesn't submerse beyond what a lot of full range towers will handle but just because the sub or subs are there doesn't mean they have to be blowing you out of your seat. However, you would have the ability should you choose.  Going by your Avatar, I will tell you this. Bob would want you to listen with subs. hehehehe |
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Lsc
Emo VIPs 
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Post by Lsc on Mar 25, 2014 20:21:15 GMT -5
Why look for an emotiva sub?
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Post by novisnick on Mar 25, 2014 21:00:13 GMT -5
i don't get this subwoofer madness at all. i guess for ht it makes sense, so it might for ppl with very small rooms using 'bookshelf' speakers. i personally prefer a speaker that covers 'top to bottom'. a lot less hassle to get the sound just right. have to say, i am a die-hard 2 channel audio fan. my transmission line speakers deliver so much bass, many subwoofers would look like 'mid-support'. for ht/ video that might be a diff story. Maybe you should try a big bad motha humpin sub and see what the hoopla is about? I have two 15s that I use for my stereo configuration and it sounds incredible. Of course I would like "top to bottom" speakers, but what if you listen to modern reggae, hip hop, rap, electronic? I guarantee you will be missing the thump. Or you might not miss it if you didn't know it could be there? If I had capable towers I would still have a sub in the works. I was completely anti big bass. I took the recommendations of some friends and forum members here. I could not be happier. I thought I didn't like too much bass. Wrong, I just had never heard really tight articulate bass before. I don't know if I will ever be a strict 2 channel guy. I haven't heard speakers that I think would do justice to my music like it is being done now. I get that most music doesn't submerse beyond what a lot of full range towers will handle but just because the sub or subs are there doesn't mean they have to be blowing you out of your seat. However, you would have the ability should you choose. Going by your Avatar, I will tell you this. Bob would want you to listen with subs. hehehehe You tell em pop! Can't miss em if you ain't hurd dem!,,,,,,,he,,,,,,,he,,,,,,,,he,,,,,,,,, |
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Post by frenchyfranky on Mar 26, 2014 2:33:33 GMT -5
What they said?
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Post by Ramair on Mar 26, 2014 9:38:56 GMT -5
Hopefully you haven't been doing without subs for 4+ year, but to each their own. Not sure why you wouldn't have already bought a subwoofer or subwoofers that met your needs, I did, an SVS PB12-Plus DSP, about 2.5 years ago and then went dual with what I initially bought from SVS about a year ago. If Emotiva has a product that meets my needs at the time I'm ready to buy, then I seriously consider them, if not, I go with what a product that does. Simple as that. Maybe you'll come back and give us a review on what you do end up with? Ditto. I just hooked up my new Paradigm Sub 15 last night. I needed a sub, no Emotiva one available, so just picked something else. No biggie. I actually have upgraded my sub a couple of times. However, always wanting more, I held off when Emotiva said the ERS-212 would be out "soon". Trying to be faithful to Emotiva, I've waited...and waited...and waited. If you recall, they've never stated it's not going to happen. Rather, every so often they would keep stringing us along by saying it's being reworked, releasing pictures, talking about it at Emofest and on the podcasts, etc. I don't "need" a new subwoofer as my current one is fine, but I was hoping the "new" Emotiva DSP unit would be my next upgrade...years ago. What it boils down to is Emotiva being dishonest about their future plans. You can't keep pushing out a deadline and expect customers to forget.And let's be honest...spending $3 - 5K on a sub is way out of most of our price range. Emo promised a killer sub for less than $1K and that's what I was waiting for, more than anything. |
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Post by aztecax on Mar 26, 2014 9:57:16 GMT -5
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Post by pop on Mar 26, 2014 10:19:09 GMT -5
I stick by my original statement on Emotiva and making subs.
Sure they can put out a top notch sub, I have no doubts about this. But this begs the question "why?" As many have stated the market is flooded with incredible subs at incredible prices. Manufacturers who don't have near the overhead Emotiva does due to their long list of products and projects. These sub ID companies can provide you with better parts for a much lower price than Emotiva will be able to. Sub companies make subs, that is all. Maybe you will see a line of speakers. I can guarantee there will be a matching sub for the new speaker line from Emotiva. However what will it do? It will match the speakers going towards aesthetics, ample performance, great price, but is it going to plummet to the depths us HT enthusiast are looking for? I dunno fellas. I remember Dan saying something in an Emofest video on their speakers about them going towards a smaller footprint type of production. Smaller cabs in subs need more powerful (more expensive) amplifiers to get the performance we are looking for. (this is my speculation)
Why would Emotiva enter a market that they will have a tough time competing in? The same could be said for their new speaker line. However, speakers are more personal than subs. With a sub you are looking for price/performance. There really isn't a sonic signature to look forward to in a sub. We all want price/performance from speakers as well but they will have that identifying sound that will make them special to the consumer.
Emotiva will put out a sub at some point and it will be an amazing product. However there are a plethora of top performing subs for extreme value all around you right now.
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Post by briank on Mar 26, 2014 10:20:23 GMT -5
Ditto. I just hooked up my new Paradigm Sub 15 last night. I needed a sub, no Emotiva one available, so just picked something else. No biggie. I actually have upgraded my sub a couple of times. However, always wanting more, I held off when Emotiva said the ERS-212 would be out "soon". Trying to be faithful to Emotiva, I've waited...and waited...and waited. If you recall, they've never stated it's not going to happen. Rather, every so often they would keep stringing us along by saying it's being reworked, releasing pictures, talking about it at Emofest and on the podcasts, etc. I don't "need" a new subwoofer as my current one is fine, but I was hoping the "new" Emotiva DSP unit would be my next upgrade...years ago. What it boils down to is Emotiva being dishonest about their future plans. You can't keep pushing out a deadline and expect customers to forget.And let's be honest...spending $3 - 5K on a sub is way out of most of our price range. Emo promised a killer sub for less than $1K and that's what I was waiting for, more than anything. I don't think they've been dishonest. It's more a case of plans changing constantly. They have done some prototype subs but I don't think they've been satisfied with them for one reason or another. The sub market is very competitive with tons of good choices. So it's either continue to wait patiently or go buy one of the many other great subs. Lots of great sub choices from SVS, PSA, and Rythmic for under $1k. Simple. |
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