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Post by monkumonku on Mar 26, 2014 10:27:30 GMT -5
What it boils down to is Emotiva being dishonest about their future plans. You can't keep pushing out a deadline and expect customers to forget.And let's be honest...spending $3 - 5K on a sub is way out of most of our price range. Emo promised a killer sub for less than $1K and that's what I was waiting for, more than anything. I don't believe Emo is being "dishonest." Agreed, they've been talking about releasing subs and nothing has happened yet, but using the word "dishonest" implies they are deliberately trying to deceive people. I don't think that is the case. How many projects out there really come in on time? On budget? In our own lives, are we always punctual with things? Sure, it is good to try and keep those who are waiting informed about the progress but that doesn't always happen and sometimes you just don't know yourself. Perhaps it is poor planning or jumping the gun, but it isn't "dishonest." |
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Post by pop on Mar 26, 2014 10:36:23 GMT -5
I agree as well about Dan not being dishonest.
IMO Emotiva has done a decent job of keeping us, the consumer, in the know for new products. I think sometimes they jump the gun and get peoples hopes up, but there is no "perfect" way to let us know about a product.
Apparently, based on responses on the forum, we have burned that bridge with Dan. I am just as guilty for getting fired up about missed release dates and product speculation, but I think most of the angst comes from the XMC. All I can say to this is, it is coming and I have no doubt it is going to bust doors wide open on price/performance factor. The positive with the negative on people getting pissed about the release date is that emotions are VERY high for this product.... As they should be. I am crossing my fingers that once Dan and Lonnie get their "baby" to the market it will be a huge weight off their shoulders. Like that moment when you sit down, sigh, pop open a beer, and put a smile on your face. Once the beast is released, if we stay on good behavior, I think we will start to get a little more insight into new products.
Even though I want to hear everything regarding the new speakers, it would be irresponsible for them to keep promising stuff when they need to get this buffet sized plate out of the way.
I love my Emo gear, it puts a smile on my face everyday. What I get from this company is that they know they aren't perfect. However, I have never seen any indication that they aren't striving to get there daily.
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Post by cd on Mar 26, 2014 10:43:06 GMT -5
Well, I disagree with Pop. Emotiva have made more than a few bold pronouncements and then *completely* failed to follow thru. The XMC-1 Never Ending Story, DSP Subs, UMC-1 fixes/updates - the list goes on and on. Don't make a claim you can't back up, plain and simple...
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Mar 26, 2014 11:08:23 GMT -5
I think you've got it right..... and I agree with you  . However, the reality is that many people are quite willing to accept flabby, thundery, lumpy bass for movie sound effects - as long as it rattles the floors and windows. As you might expect, it's a lot easier (and cheaper) to make a sub that makes huge quantities of poor quality bass than one that makes lots of clean bass - and a lot of folks seem to "need" massive amounts of bass for their movies, even though they're quite satisfied with more reasonable quantities of better quality bass for their music listening. Hey, anything to help you sell it! Personally, that is a crazy good price for that sub, cat scratches or not. I would buy it if you were local to me. The Xref's are great subs for music. What I like about them is how bass notes are distinct (so you can actually tell what note it is, not just a low frequency noise) and it is well-defined. No flabbiness. If you want something more for HT then I'd go elsewhere but for music, these are great.  That's what I don't really get about subs; how can it be musical (ie good for music) but not good for home theatre? A flabby sub for music is going to give flabby sound in explosions. Maybe it's not as easy to detect, but I doubt it; listen to the same explosion with a "musical" sub and the same explosion on some other non-musical sub and I bet the sound is better in the "musical" one. In my uninformed, highly opinionated opinion, there is no such thing as a musical sub; it either plays back clean, tight, accurate bass, or it doesn't. The sub doesn't differentiate b/n music or explosion, bass is bass. You may notice the effects of a poorly performing sub more quickly in a musical setting, but how does that make me feel better? "Well gee I'm hearing a lot of noise, I'm not sure whether it's part of the movie or just my sub disintegrating but it sure sounds swell to me".  |
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Post by monkumonku on Mar 26, 2014 12:13:43 GMT -5
Oppo announced a while ago that they will be releasing a planar headphone and also a headphone amp. It amuses me reading the thread about the headphones over at Head-Fi.org because you might as well just remove the headphone model number (PM-1) and substitute "XMC-1" in its place. The products may be different but the comments are the same. Such as: It's been Oppo the whole time, and they're not shown themselves to be good about sticking to deadlines with this release. Nobody is claiming to know how Oppo works internally, but we've all seen how bad they were at sticking to their initial end-of-2013 release date. How should we believe them now when they say they're optimistic about April? This is more than a little late now.
and, Nobody here has a problem purely with the wait. What we have a problem with is that nobody on the mailing list has had a thorough update on the status of development in a long time, and the headphone we were promised by the end of last year isn't here. It's not development time we don't like; it's the complete lack of communication and ability to stick to assurances made on the part of Oppo. Like I said earlier, somebody unfamiliar with the company would have possibly cast them off as crooks by now, and won't plan on buying unless this headphone is the second coming of the HE90.
Someone ought to tell those people to go and post that stuff on the Oppo forum instead. Oh wait.. Oppo has no forum. Well someone ought to tell Oppo to get with it and release stuff on time like Onkyo, Yamaha, etc. do. Oh but those are just rehashed previous models with a few fancy features that most folks don't want or need added to them and more short cuts taken in construction quality and materials. Never mind. |
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Post by drtrey3 on Mar 27, 2014 11:01:00 GMT -5
Good one Jim! I actually DID consider taking pics, but then I did not want to take them in secret, that is too nerdy, and I did not want to have to answer "I wanted the guys on the community board to see what was going on" to any questions about why in the hell I was taking photos of their messy office!
Trey
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2014 20:48:34 GMT -5
I think you've got it right..... and I agree with you . However, the reality is that many people are quite willing to accept flabby, thundery, lumpy bass for movie sound effects - as long as it rattles the floors and windows. As you might expect, it's a lot easier (and cheaper) to make a sub that makes huge quantities of poor quality bass than one that makes lots of clean bass - and a lot of folks seem to "need" massive amounts of bass for their movies, even though they're quite satisfied with more reasonable quantities of better quality bass for their music listening. That's what I don't really get about subs; how can it be musical (ie good for music) but not good for home theatre? A flabby sub for music is going to give flabby sound in explosions. Maybe it's not as easy to detect, but I doubt it; listen to the same explosion with a "musical" sub and the same explosion on some other non-musical sub and I bet the sound is better in the "musical" one. In my uninformed, highly opinionated opinion, there is no such thing as a musical sub; it either plays back clean, tight, accurate bass, or it doesn't. The sub doesn't differentiate b/n music or explosion, bass is bass. You may notice the effects of a poorly performing sub more quickly in a musical setting, but how does that make me feel better? "Well gee I'm hearing a lot of noise, I'm not sure whether it's part of the movie or just my sub disintegrating but it sure sounds swell to me". I agree a good sub is a good sub, musical, good for HT is all a bunch of garbage but watching a movie and listening to music are 2 totally different things. Most people don't "need" massive amounts of bass for music because it's not there to start with, how many songs do you know of that go much under 30hz, let alone ULF. Blasting music at dolby reference for an hour and a half would suck because it would not be floating around 85dB average but likely higher for extended periods (depending on the music of course) but watching a movie for that same hour and a half, with only some scenes going into the higher end dB's and the rest being talking and such, is completely different. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2014 20:50:04 GMT -5
Oppo announced a while ago that they will be releasing a planar headphone and also a headphone amp. It amuses me reading the thread about the headphones over at Head-Fi.org because you might as well just remove the headphone model number (PM-1) and substitute "XMC-1" in its place. The products may be different but the comments are the same. Such as: It's been Oppo the whole time, and they're not shown themselves to be good about sticking to deadlines with this release. Nobody is claiming to know how Oppo works internally, but we've all seen how bad they were at sticking to their initial end-of-2013 release date. How should we believe them now when they say they're optimistic about April? This is more than a little late now.
and, Nobody here has a problem purely with the wait. What we have a problem with is that nobody on the mailing list has had a thorough update on the status of development in a long time, and the headphone we were promised by the end of last year isn't here. It's not development time we don't like; it's the complete lack of communication and ability to stick to assurances made on the part of Oppo. Like I said earlier, somebody unfamiliar with the company would have possibly cast them off as crooks by now, and won't plan on buying unless this headphone is the second coming of the HE90.
Someone ought to tell those people to go and post that stuff on the Oppo forum instead. Oh wait.. Oppo has no forum. Well someone ought to tell Oppo to get with it and release stuff on time like Onkyo, Yamaha, etc. do. Oh but those are just rehashed previous models with a few fancy features that most folks don't want or need added to them and more short cuts taken in construction quality and materials. Never mind. 3 month wait vs 3 years.... It's a bit different. |
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Post by monkumonku on Mar 31, 2014 20:53:06 GMT -5
Oppo announced a while ago that they will be releasing a planar headphone and also a headphone amp. It amuses me reading the thread about the headphones over at Head-Fi.org because you might as well just remove the headphone model number (PM-1) and substitute "XMC-1" in its place. The products may be different but the comments are the same. Such as: It's been Oppo the whole time, and they're not shown themselves to be good about sticking to deadlines with this release. Nobody is claiming to know how Oppo works internally, but we've all seen how bad they were at sticking to their initial end-of-2013 release date. How should we believe them now when they say they're optimistic about April? This is more than a little late now.
and, Nobody here has a problem purely with the wait. What we have a problem with is that nobody on the mailing list has had a thorough update on the status of development in a long time, and the headphone we were promised by the end of last year isn't here. It's not development time we don't like; it's the complete lack of communication and ability to stick to assurances made on the part of Oppo. Like I said earlier, somebody unfamiliar with the company would have possibly cast them off as crooks by now, and won't plan on buying unless this headphone is the second coming of the HE90.
Someone ought to tell those people to go and post that stuff on the Oppo forum instead. Oh wait.. Oppo has no forum. Well someone ought to tell Oppo to get with it and release stuff on time like Onkyo, Yamaha, etc. do. Oh but those are just rehashed previous models with a few fancy features that most folks don't want or need added to them and more short cuts taken in construction quality and materials. Never mind. 3 month wait vs 3 years.... It's a bit different. Sure it's a bit different, but where do you draw the line? And that wasn't the point of my response. The point is no matter what the wait, you're gonna have whiners and complainers. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2014 22:01:53 GMT -5
I would say the 2 year mark should be the line in the sand  |
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Post by monkumonku on Mar 31, 2014 22:03:20 GMT -5
I would say the 2 year mark should be the line in the sand Lines in the sand are quickly washed away by the tide. |
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Post by lsdeep on Apr 3, 2014 23:35:48 GMT -5
anyway, i stay with my previous statement. with a good set of full range speakers subs are not needed. that's for music only, ok!? i can understand the floppy whoppy grumbling at the bottom for the home theater setup. i can understand subs also with bookshelf speakers, to fill in. maybe even in huge rooms, where i ask myself already again - did i/ you choose the right speakers. my transmissionlines tend to get even the parts of solid concret walls in the house to vibrate 'softly' along with the music, while delivering a nice tight bass fully integrated in the sound. when we lived in nyc still i had the problem with the b**ch above us even, that she claimed her semi precious cr*p 'wandered' out of the shelves. thats obviously bs! music does not make neighbors shelf inhabitance get a life on its own. but back to subs. they are overrated. at least for music. even if some clever mind here thinks i have to listen to bob marley, cause i live in jamaica. (i occasionally do). usually i am more on the doom, black metal front or jazz . yep welcome to jamaica! no sub needed! plenty of bass without. and (you have to trust me on that), most musicians i know (quite a few) have so crappy sound systems at home you would think its susan, your next door neighbor with her bose wave. but they usually have nice amps for the guitars, bass etc anyway - subs are over-rated! for music! if you are a techno/ house/ etc fan - poss not. but than you wouldnt know the diffetrence to begin with, would you!? cheers, L |
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Post by cd on Apr 4, 2014 0:27:09 GMT -5
>> 3 month wait vs 3 years.... It's a bit different. <<
You're being very kind there. By my calendar we are going on 5 years. But hey, what's a few extra years among friends, eh? And, honestly, Oppo are only 3 months late. Most of us Emotivans can easily do a nickel standing on our heads, we've had *lots* of practice...<g>
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Post by lsdeep on Apr 4, 2014 0:51:28 GMT -5
>> 3 month wait vs 3 years.... It's a bit different. << You're being very kind there. By my calendar we are going on 5 years. But hey, what's a few extra years among friends, eh? And, honestly, Oppo are only 3 months late. Most of us Emotivans can easily do a nickel standing on our heads, we've had *lots* of practice...<g> let me (badly) quote something i read lately: you want a crappy product tomorrow or sth well worth the additional time next month!? it might never come ! as mentioned before here and in other posts - it isn't a major issue. there are many other good brands for subs readily available. would it be a nice 'gadget' to offer? sure! is it a must be rite now? no! i rather see emotiva and their 'gearheads' concentrate on other stuff (amps, pre's....). i not even consider the emotiva line of speakers revolutionary (gasp!!!!). they are ok and a good deal for the money, but seriously, their strength is the 'rest' of the hardware! amps, pre-amps, dac's etc.... of high quality for affordable prices. keep that going - i will find the speakers (and yes, if needed subs) to pair with great hardware. getting overboard and trying to do everything usually results in mediocre all. let them do what they do best. once they are ready to put out a new product line - they will. and more likely than not, it will be good and a good deal. cheers, L |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2014 1:58:47 GMT -5
anyway, i stay with my previous statement. with a good set of full range speakers subs are not needed. that's for music only, ok!? i can understand the floppy whoppy grumbling at the bottom for the home theater setup. i can understand subs also with bookshelf speakers, to fill in. maybe even in huge rooms, where i ask myself already again - did i/ you choose the right speakers. my transmissionlines tend to get even the parts of solid concret walls in the house to vibrate 'softly' along with the music, while delivering a nice tight bass fully integrated in the sound. when we lived in nyc still i had the problem with the b**ch above us even, that she claimed her semi precious cr*p 'wandered' out of the shelves. thats obviously bs! music does not make neighbors shelf inhabitance get a life on its own. but back to subs. they are overrated. at least for music. even if some clever mind here thinks i have to listen to bob marley, cause i live in jamaica. (i occasionally do). usually i am more on the doom, black metal front or jazz . yep welcome to jamaica! no sub needed! plenty of bass without. and (you have to trust me on that), most musicians i know (quite a few) have so crappy sound systems at home you would think its susan, your next door neighbor with her bose wave. but they usually have nice amps for the guitars, bass etc anyway - subs are over-rated! for music! if you are a techno/ house/ etc fan - poss not. but than you wouldnt know the diffetrence to begin with, would you!? cheers, L  |
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