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Post by jmilton on Aug 15, 2014 13:59:36 GMT -5
I'm holding out for... EMOST. I hear Keith is already working out the software/speakers on that one...  |
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Post by jmilton on Aug 15, 2014 14:02:31 GMT -5
But a lot of money gets spent on failed technologies. Very often it's merely marketing con games to separate one from their money. I am thinking about buying a solar powered AVR. Or should I pay a little more and get a solar powered amp? Have you considered wind power?  ![]()  "Dad. The amplifier fault light is still on." |
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Post by knucklehead on Aug 15, 2014 14:09:09 GMT -5
Audioholics is taking some flack over that article over at AVS. Gene D. made an apperance to explain his/their take on it. I wonder how many on AVS bothered to read Tom's reasoning for calling Atmos DOA. I read it - and mostly agree with it. It may be on every piece of gear offered up in 5 years but how many will bother to install the necessary speakers? More than likely not me. But you never know. |
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Post by Dark Ranger on Aug 15, 2014 14:16:41 GMT -5
I've never heard Atmos. I don't feel it would be worth driving the 3 hours to the nearest Atmos-equipped theater. It would be cool to experience an Atmos-enabled cinema, but it will sound very different than installing Atmos in one's home theater (at least for a while).  It's not that I hate Atmos, I don't. It's a cool idea and it has some merit. I also believe that, conceptually, it can improve sonic immersion and realism when implemented correctly. And there's the rub. That's where I take issue with the vast majority of Atmos products being pushed today. Early-adopter Atmos HT solutions are nothing like what the cinemas use. And it's all about the implementation. Most HT enthusiasts pay special attention to properly installing and setting up a 5.1 or 7.1 system. Small placement adjustments can make a big difference. Then Atmos comes along, and suddenly we can use small, full-range drivers mounted in the top of primary speakers, angled upward to bounce off the ceiling for Direct/Reflecting "general ambiance" and effect? That's nothing like what the Atmos-enabled cinemas are using! Why would be expect it to sound similar? And for those of us with existing high-resolution speakers, it appears we'll either have to Jerry-rig something or buy new speakers with upward-firing drivers. Sorry, but after months of researching and finally spending thousands of dollars for my speakers, I don't want to downgrade to a HTIB set so I can have more cow bell ambiance. I just can't see Atmos taking off for most home theaters. The folks with dedicated rooms and deeper pockets can pull it off, but for those of us with a multipurpose HT room (workroom, living room, den, etc.) or having to contend with WAF, it's going to be a non-starter IMO. One of these days I'd love to have a dedicated room. If Atmos is still around and has proven itself as the format matures, then yes, I'll consider an Atmos setup. But I'm going to do it right and install ceiling speakers, not some Jerry-rigged product that can check off a feature box. |
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Post by cwmcobra on Aug 15, 2014 15:16:35 GMT -5
I am in the process of designing and building a dedicated theater in my basement. Since I'm starting from scratch, I'm going to "near future proof" the design and build by wiring for ceiling speakers. And I plan to purchase and install them when I'm near completion. I already have all the Sherbourn amp channels that will be needed, so just need to decide on and purchase the four ceiling speakers required. And a processor that will decode Atmos, of course. I'm hoping the XMC-2 or RMC-1 or whatever the next incarnation of the XMC platform will be will provide that capability and be available by the time I will need it.
I guess the window of opportunity has presented me with an open mind. So, I'm eager to hear all the promised details of the home Atmos system that Dolby has promised to announce later this year to guide my decision on speakers for the ceiling and placement. One that is on my short list, by the way, is the Emo UAC-8.2. With the ability to angle the tweeters, and considering they are built by a trusted source, I think they might be worth a try.
Now, if my theater was complete with the originally planned 7.2 configuration, it would be hard to convince me to give Atmos a try. My mind would be pretty much closed to even think about it......
Cheers!
Chuck
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Erwin.BE
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Post by Erwin.BE on Aug 15, 2014 17:48:51 GMT -5
Personally I think they nailed it. I'm sure others will disagree. I've never heard Atmos. I don't feel it would be worth driving the 3 hours to the nearest Atmos-equipped theater. Do Atmos tickets cost more at a theater, like 3D (which I also don't care about)? ⬇⬇⬇ You say they nailed while you admit you never heard it. How very smart of you. It was definitely worth the 2 hour drive for me (across the Dutch border) to experience a movie with Atmos sound, as it was the best movie sound I ever heard plus I have a nice car. Drove to Venice once. Or is that OT?  |
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Erwin.BE
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Post by Erwin.BE on Aug 15, 2014 17:50:35 GMT -5
I am in the process of designing and building a dedicated theater in my basement. Since I'm starting from scratch, I'm going to "near future proof" the design and build by wiring for ceiling speakers. And I plan to purchase and install them when I'm near completion. I already have all the Sherbourn amp channels that will be needed, so just need to decide on and purchase the four ceiling speakers required. And a processor that will decode Atmos, of course. I'm hoping the XMC-2 or RMC-1 or whatever the next incarnation of the XMC platform will be will provide that capability and be available by the time I will need it. I guess the window of opportunity has presented me with an open mind. So, I'm eager to hear all the promised details of the home Atmos system that Dolby has promised to announce later this year to guide my decision on speakers for the ceiling and placement. One that is on my short list, by the way, is the Emo UAC-8.2. With the ability to angle the tweeters, and considering they are built by a trusted source, I think they might be worth a try. Now, if my theater was complete with the originally planned 7.2 configuration, it would be hard to convince me to give Atmos a try. My mind would be pretty much closed to even think about it...... Cheers! Chuck ☝ +1 Some folks are so pin headed... |
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Erwin.BE
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Post by Erwin.BE on Aug 15, 2014 18:18:12 GMT -5
I can guarantee you that, five years from now, Dolby Atmos will have been replaced as "cutting edge technology" by something else.... because that's true of EVERY technology that comes out these days. You have to balance the idea of "waiting until you make sure something catches on" against the prospect of never getting to actually enjoy anything because you're waiting for whatever comes next. Our philosophy about this here at Emotiva is that you should be able to buy the latest technology - at a reasonable price. That way you get to enjoy it now, and, since you aren't still paying off the mortgage on it in five years, you can buy the new latest and greatest technology when IT comes out. If you're waiting for things to stop moving, and for "them to finally get things right and stop coming out with new stuff", then you'll be waiting forever - and you'll never get to listen to anything in the mean time. As it turns out, analog power amps haven't changed much - and probably won't. (You can get digital amps that are smaller, and lighter, and may eventually sound as good, but beyond that there isn't much room for improvement.) Therefore, one thing you can do is to "buy up" and "buy separate". A seven-channel receiver isn't going to be much use if you decide you need 11 channels to do "a full Atmos setup" in two or three years.... but, if you're using a pair of really nice monoblocks for your main front speakers, and a five channel power amp for your surrounds, then they'll still be great... and you can just add another four or five channel amp to power the extra channels. Buy "as much pre/pro as you can afford now", and get one that, like the XMC-1, is about as upgradable as current technology permits, but realize that you'll probably end up having to replace it EVENTUALLY... so don't spend ten grand on a super-fancy receiver or pre/pro that claims it can be upgraded forever.... because anybody who says anything can be upgraded forever is yanking your chain... And, back to the original topic, give Atmos a few months for a selection of products to get out - and for the "bleeding edge sticker shock" to dissipate... then, see (and hear) what it does and, if you like it, then buy it....... And, if not, then wait for the next big thing to come out... Keith I agree with a lot you say, but I am building a HT now and will be needing a pre-pro round the year end. Having experienced Atmos in a commercial cinema, I just gotta have it now that it is available because it sounded awesome! Content is promised "by Christmas" also, which is fine by me. The Marantz AV7702 isn't so bad. I would have loved to use Dirac as I have it already on my stereo, but hey, it has 7.2.4 Atmos and Audyssey XT32 and is in the same price range as the XMC-1. I sure hope you folks are on to this technology too. More channels doesn't mean less sound quality either, as some pretend to know. What struck me most during the Atmos movie, is how loud and yet how clean and undistorted it all sounded. More speakers mean more headroom ofcourse. Take a look at this Polish Atmos sound production facility with Atmos. It uses all JBL cinema speakers. See how the speakers nearest to the screen are bigger? These are the JBL SCS12 (12"), while the others are the SCS8 (8"). It's obvious the SCS12 are there to make a larger soundstage.  |
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Post by bluemeanies on Aug 17, 2014 20:41:00 GMT -5
Here are five interesting points about Atmos some of which I agree. I personally am not hyped up on ATMOS nor was I with 3D which has turned out to be not so successful in the home theater market place. I will be curious to read any comments about this article. Feel free Emotiva heads to voice your opinions. www.audioholics.com/audio-technologies/5-reasons-dolby-atmos-is-doa |
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Erwin.BE
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Post by Erwin.BE on Aug 18, 2014 10:56:19 GMT -5
Yawn.
Already posted.
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Post by KeithL on Aug 18, 2014 12:43:36 GMT -5
I'm NOT going to get into this argument.... but I would like to point out one thing they're avoiding..... And that is the concept of "ecosystem" (and I HATE  that word being used in this context - but it is the right word here.) Let me explain..... Atmos is doing well in theaters, and everyone seems to agree that it both improves the mastering experience, and delivers an impressive movie. So, who cares about how it plays in a theater when we're talking about HOME theater? The answer is: You do. The important fact about Atmos - AS A TECHNOLOGY - that they're entirely ignoring is that it is "scalable" and "portable"....... and, by that, I'm not talking about headphones. I'm talking about the fact that theater Atmos content can be turned into HOME Theater Atmos content very easily. This means that it should be easier to "translate" an Atmos movie into an Atmos Blu-Ray disc that sounds good. This means that high-budget Atmos discs will sound good... and it also means that even low budget ones will still have a better chance of coming out good than they would if the conversion and remastering process wasn't as easy as it is. Therefore, even if you don't fins Atmos to be "a big deal", it probably will contribute to your being able to buy better sounding movies, cheaper, more often..... In fact, it might even contribute to more and better sounding discs... even if you DON'T end up playing them on an Atmos system.... But, of course, we WILL all have to wait and see (or listen)...... [Now, if I was cynical, I might suggest that "Atmos bashing" is a great way to "be controversial" - which, in marketing, often has its own rewards...  ] Here are five interesting points about Atmos some of which I agree. I personally am not hyped up on ATMOS nor was I with 3D which has turned out to be not so successful in the home theater market place. I will be curious to read any comments about this article. Feel free Emotiva heads to voice your opinions. www.audioholics.com/audio-technologies/5-reasons-dolby-atmos-is-doa |
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Post by bluemeanies on Aug 18, 2014 13:52:21 GMT -5
sorry I repeated. It was an oversight. Go back to sleep. |
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Erwin.BE
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Post by Erwin.BE on Aug 18, 2014 14:10:09 GMT -5
sorry I repeated. It was an oversight. Go back to sleep. Just had a power nap, thanks. Needed it after finalizing my HT design with full blown Dolby Atmos 7.4.4 (expandable to 9.4.6) last night until 3:40 in the morning. Posting in a few moments... |
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Post by bluemeanies on Aug 18, 2014 14:20:39 GMT -5
sorry I repeated. It was an oversight. Go back to sleep. Just had a power nap, thanks. Needed it after finalizing my HT design with full blown Dolby Atmos 7.4.4 (expandable to 9.4.6) last night until 3:40 in the morning. Posting in a few moments... Pretty cool! Love to see some pictures. Hey if your live nearby (southeastern Pa) I have the beers...LOL |
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Erwin.BE
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Post by Erwin.BE on Aug 18, 2014 14:44:39 GMT -5
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Post by thrillcat on Aug 19, 2014 11:13:49 GMT -5
Personally I think they nailed it. I'm sure others will disagree. I've never heard Atmos. I don't feel it would be worth driving the 3 hours to the nearest Atmos-equipped theater. Do Atmos tickets cost more at a theater, like 3D (which I also don't care about)? ⬇⬇⬇ You say they nailed while you admit you never heard it. How very smart of you. It was definitely worth the 2 hour drive for me (across the Dutch border) to experience a movie with Atmos sound, as it was the best movie sound I ever heard plus I have a nice car. Drove to Venice once. Or is that OT? I think they nailed it because none of the reasons they point out in the article have anything to do with how it sounds. I agree that all 5 things they pointed out are going to be very tough hurdles for Atmos to clear. |
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Post by wbroshea on Aug 21, 2014 18:06:40 GMT -5
Quick question. I thought I saw somewhere a list of supported speaker configurations and one of them included Front and Rear Heights as a supported atmos configuration. For the life of me, I can't seem to find that info anymore. Anybody recall where the supported speaker configurations are mentioned?
Next question - Anybody want to hazard a guess (thats all we are really doing here until they are in store) how front and rear heights will "work" for Atmos? I'm sure it wont work as well as ceiling mounted speakers, but how much worse is it and would it still be worth doing. I have a sloped vaulted ceiling. So no uniform reflective surface and no real way to mount ceiling speakers at an uniform height (which I assume is necessary). Again just looking for guesses here.
Last question, if front and rear heights will work well enough, any opinions on how well the emotiva UAW 8.2s would work for height duty?
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Erwin.BE
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Post by Erwin.BE on Aug 22, 2014 13:58:12 GMT -5
Quick question. I thought I saw somewhere a list of supported speaker configurations and one of them included Front and Rear Heights as a supported atmos configuration. For the life of me, I can't seem to find that info anymore. Anybody recall where the supported speaker configurations are mentioned? Next question - Anybody want to hazard a guess (thats all we are really doing here until they are in store) how front and rear heights will "work" for Atmos? I'm sure it wont work as well as ceiling mounted speakers, but how much worse is it and would it still be worth doing. I have a sloped vaulted ceiling. So no uniform reflective surface and no real way to mount ceiling speakers at an uniform height (which I assume is necessary). Again just looking for guesses here. Last question, if front and rear heights will work well enough, any opinions on how well the emotiva UAW 8.2s would work for height duty? No worries, they will work. I have written down the permitted angles provided by D&M of the 5 possible elevated speaker positions. Needed it to check out the distances in my room. Here they are from screen to back, it's the elevation from MLP on the front-back axis: Front Height: 30-45° Top Front: 30-55° Top Middle: 65-100° Top Rear: 125-150° Rear Height: 135-150° Pick any two, as long as they're not adjacent. You see, if your Front Height is at least 30° up, where it should be, you might as well name it Top Front. Ditto for the Rear. If it's in spec for Height, it is in spec for Top. It will certainly work. Atmos will presumably treat FH/RH a bit different than TF/TR because it will assume they are slightly less elevated. The most desirable spec for an Atmos elevated speaker is wide dispersion in all directions. Not sure how the UAW's perform there. And to finish, here is a handy tool for calculating the distance from the angle or vice versa: www.arndt-bruenner.de/mathe/scripts/dreiecksberechnungrw.htm |
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Post by wbroshea on Aug 22, 2014 19:22:09 GMT -5
Quick question. I thought I saw somewhere a list of supported speaker configurations and one of them included Front and Rear Heights as a supported atmos configuration. For the life of me, I can't seem to find that info anymore. Anybody recall where the supported speaker configurations are mentioned? Next question - Anybody want to hazard a guess (thats all we are really doing here until they are in store) how front and rear heights will "work" for Atmos? I'm sure it wont work as well as ceiling mounted speakers, but how much worse is it and would it still be worth doing. I have a sloped vaulted ceiling. So no uniform reflective surface and no real way to mount ceiling speakers at an uniform height (which I assume is necessary). Again just looking for guesses here. Last question, if front and rear heights will work well enough, any opinions on how well the emotiva UAW 8.2s would work for height duty? No worries, they will work. I have written down the permitted angles provided by D&M of the 5 possible elevated speaker positions. Needed it to check out the distances in my room. Here they are from screen to back, it's the elevation from MLP on the front-back axis: Front Height: 30-45° Top Front: 30-55° Top Middle: 65-100° Top Rear: 125-150° Rear Height: 135-150° Pick any two, as long as they're not adjacent. You see, if your Front Height is at least 30° up, where it should be, you might as well name it Top Front. Ditto for the Rear. If it's in spec for Height, it is in spec for Top. It will certainly work. Atmos will presumably treat FH/RH a bit different than TF/TR because it will assume they are slightly less elevated. The most desirable spec for an Atmos elevated speaker is wide dispersion in all directions. Not sure how the UAW's perform there. And to finish, here is a handy tool for calculating the distance from the angle or vice versa: www.arndt-bruenner.de/mathe/scripts/dreiecksberechnungrw.htmThat's good to hear because I cant think of any other way to do atmos in this particular room. Any in wall speakers you can suggest that have a wide dispersion? |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Aug 22, 2014 20:11:53 GMT -5
I recently estimated where my ceiling speakers might go, and unlike my prior assessment...I could make it work. The only thing that has me wondering is how Dolby always shows the surrounds at ~ear level. Mine are ceiling height ERD-1's,set appropriately for their height. I presume the alledged benefits of Atmos and the extra speakers are that the mastering is object based and the ceiling speakers are downward firing, in narrower than the surrounds and diffuse the sounds to add immersion. So, I should worry less that my surrounds are up high and assume it will work.
Right? Or not?
Mark
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that word being used in this context - but it is the right word here.)
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