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Post by Chuck Elliot on Jul 30, 2014 22:21:39 GMT -5
Remember Chuck, The XMC-1 does have true Fletcher-Munson loudness compensation! Its curve is modified by the volume setting. More compensation at lower levels and less as you get louder. If the midnight mode really becomes an issue; it's straightforward to port in. I've never found it to be listenable... But that's me. Cheers, Big Dan As I don't have my XMC-1 yet I had no idea that Fletcher-Munson loudness compensation had been fully implemented. It seems it should be referenced to a calibrated level. Is the the same reference level used in the speaker setup? I couldn't live without the midnight mode. When I watch a movie late night, I am guarantied a visit from my wife if it's not turned on! Lucky My Blu-Ray also supports it! Looking forward to getting(on order) my XMC-1  |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 30, 2014 22:23:57 GMT -5
I'd like the nine little buttons to have a proximity sensor built into each. Get your finger close, or even gently touch the button and the OLED display fades in the name of the input assigned to the button you're hovering over. Once you find the input you want, click the button to select. WAF+ Maybe not practical for an upgrade, but ... In the 70s & 80s I had an SAE MK VIB Tuner, it had a nice Nixie tube digital readout and an oscilloscope. You could use the scope for signal strength and tuning, but it also had a Lissajous mode you could use for setting up your turntable (tracking force / anti-skating), or just stare at the mesmerizing patterns when the mood hit you.  I even called an FM station once because I could tell their cartridge was out of phase. Another very cool feature was that just touching the tuning knob caused the display to switch from Lissajous mode to tuning mode, when you got the station properly dialed in and let go, the scope went back to 'trip mode'. Not the proximity sensors you describe, but way ahead of it's time in both style and function. I found a couple pictures (even has Dan's old school script like the differential reference series)    Sorry, guess I digressed beyond XMC-1 upgrades ... |
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Post by sme on Jul 31, 2014 0:49:07 GMT -5
Remember Chuck, The XMC-1 does have true Fletcher-Munson loudness compensation! Its curve is modified by the volume setting. More compensation at lower levels and less as you get louder. If the midnight mode really becomes an issue; it's straightforward to port in. I've never found it to be listenable... But that's me. Hi Dan. Does the "Fletcher-Munson loudness compensation" allow adjustment of the reference point? In Audyssey Dynamic EQ, the "reference offset" setting specifies the reference point. For example, a reference offset of 0 means that when the volume level is set to 0 (theatrical reference), the compensation vanishes, but levels below/above have bass and high treble (respectively) suppressed/boosted. For a reference offset of 5, the compensation will vanish at a volume level of -5, and so on. Also if I recall, Audyssey claims that the word "Dynamic" in Dynamic EQ refers to the fact that the filter is a non-linear filter. Not only does the filter response change depending on the volume level (relative to the reference offset), but it also changes depending on whether the sound is more transient or sustained. From my limited understanding of psychoacoustics, I believe such a compensation may be more correct than an EQ that simply changes with volume level. Also, I believe Fletcher-Munson's own curves have long since been shown to be incorrect, particularly in the deep bass region where it matters most. I assume "Fletcher-Munson" refers to the type of compensation being done rather than the specific curves used in the compensation? I hate to admit it, but I like Dynamic EQ a lot, despite its imperfections. (It boosts surround output, which doesn't always sound right.) I have also had stereos with Loudness buttons as well as one with a Loudness knob, but thus far, nothing other than Dynamic EQ has sounded good enough for me to leave it on for general listening. I do a lot of listening at very low levels when the wife is asleep, and it makes a huge difference. I also have subs that dig real deep, and without correction, the deep bass impact tends to disappear unless playing at or near reference levels. I'm thinking I'll visit Emotiva On the Road in Denver, and maybe they'll let me try out the compensation on the XMC-1 so I can compare. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2014 2:19:27 GMT -5
The only time I'm interested in loudness compression is with movies late at night. For late night music I use 2 channel and headphones, (that also goes for adult movies with all the moaning and screaming!  ) My Oppo BDP-83 for late night movies: Dynamic Range Control: To set the Dynamic Range Compression (DRC). DRC can smooth out the sonic peaks and valleys common with wide-range digital audio. Enabling DRC may make low level audio more audible during low-level listening. Turning off DRC restores the sonic energy present in the original recording. The available options are: • Auto – Play at the dynamic range specified by the disc. This option applies to Blu-ray Discs only. For other disc types no dynamic range compression is applied. • On – Turn on dynamic range compression. • Off – Turn off dynamic range compression. (This involves a very simple quick remote control operation.)
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Post by igorzep on Jul 31, 2014 2:53:19 GMT -5
If the midnight mode really becomes an issue; it's straightforward to port in. I've never found it to be listenable... But that's me. I've also never found it to be listenable, but may be it is so because we both listened to the straightforward implementation of it  Audyssey Dynamic Volume in my case. It is just a straightforward single band compressor, with some look-ahead. Multiband compressors should work better but they are angry for processing resources. Dolby Volume claims something like 40 bands... Unfortunately it is bound to the Dolby decoder, so cannot be used with non-Dolby content... I've never been able to evaluate how good it sounds as practically everything is encoded in some other format. BTW... The product page for XMC-1 says: Dynamic Range Controls!!! They are advertised, but missing from the XMC-1? How come?  |
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Post by igorzep on Jul 31, 2014 3:11:22 GMT -5
Hi Dan. Does the "Fletcher-Munson loudness compensation" allow adjustment of the reference point? In Audyssey Dynamic EQ, the "reference offset" setting specifies the reference point. For example, a reference offset of 0 means that when the volume level is set to 0 (theatrical reference), the compensation vanishes, but levels below/above have bass and high treble (respectively) suppressed/boosted. For a reference offset of 5, the compensation will vanish at a volume level of -5, and so on. This is what I am asking for quite a long time... I really don't understand how such extremely important and at the same time absolutely trivial feature is not implemented. It is a must have for Loudness compensation considering the reality of lack of a standard level for music recordings. Without it the Loudness feature is just incorrect and useless for anything except movies. And controlling the offset must be as accessible as absolutely possible because it is the second-used feature after the volume adjustment. Also if I recall, Audyssey claims that the word "Dynamic" in Dynamic EQ refers to the fact that the filter is a non-linear filter. Not only does the filter response change depending on the volume level (relative to the reference offset), but it also changes depending on whether the sound is more transient or sustained. From my limited understanding of psychoacoustics, I believe such a compensation may be more correct than an EQ that simply changes with volume level. As have been done in Dynamic EQ it is neither more correct nor more incorrect. And the impact of it is really tiny compared to the static part. I wouldn't cry for losing it. Also, I believe Fletcher-Munson's own curves have long since been shown to be incorrect, particularly in the deep bass region where it matters most. They did... But after a second round of ISO investigation they was proven to be more correct than initially thought. Actually latest standard deviates very little from original F-M curves and more or less within a people's hearing deviation. |
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Post by cwt on Jul 31, 2014 6:16:18 GMT -5
Also, I believe Fletcher-Munson's own curves have long since been shown to be incorrect, particularly in the deep bass region where it matters most. They did... But after a second round of ISO investigation they was proven to be more correct than initially thought. Actually latest standard deviates very little from original F-M curves and more or less within a people's hearing deviation. Yes ; found this interesting on the subject www.lindos.co.uk/cgi-bin/FlexiData.cgi?SOURCE=Articles&VIEW=full&id=17 |
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Post by Chuck Elliot on Jul 31, 2014 9:49:45 GMT -5
They did... But after a second round of ISO investigation they was proven to be more correct than initially thought. Actually latest standard deviates very little from original F-M curves and more or less within a people's hearing deviation. Yes ; found this interesting on the subject www.lindos.co.uk/cgi-bin/FlexiData.cgi?SOURCE=Articles&VIEW=full&id=17The ISO graphs are the red ones on the chart I posted. Blue is FM. |
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Post by srrndhound on Jul 31, 2014 12:26:11 GMT -5
If the midnight mode really becomes an issue; it's straightforward to port in. I've never found it to be listenable... But that's me. Port in, from where? Not from Audyssey, so you must mean something else. There is the original "midnight" mode that is part of the Dolby codecs (it's included in Dolby Digital DD+, and TrueHD), but unlike Dynamic Loudness, it only works on Dolby tracks, so that leaves out most Blu-rays. Presumably, the XMC-1 already does (or will soon) offer the Dolby DRC on/off modes, as it is required by Dolby IIRC, just as is the filtered pink noise for channel calibrations. Do I have that right? But aside from that, what would you "port in" to perform DRC for DTS tracks that sounds unlistenable? |
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Post by laserman35 on Jul 31, 2014 12:45:46 GMT -5
I'm a 5.1 guy..
I would love to reassign the extra 2 channels for High Fronts. Or have the option for active bi-amping for L/R mains.
I think active bi-amping would not cost anything more than programming. The High fronts might cost more for licensing.
There is a plus side for Emotiva to do this. 2 more amp channels needed, and two more front speakers needed for high fronts.
I hope more 5.1 guys like this..
I got to order my XMC-1 today (:!!!(:!!!(:!!!(:!!! Can not wait..(:
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Post by ÈlTwo on Jul 31, 2014 13:14:03 GMT -5
The only time I'm interested in loudness compression is with movies late at night. For late night music I use 2 channel and headphones, (that also goes for adult movies with all the moaning and screaming! ) Doesn't your screaming and moaning bother your wife? |
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ttocs
Global Moderator 
I always have a wonderful time, wherever I am, whomever I'm with. (Elwood P Dowd)
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Post by ttocs on Jul 31, 2014 13:42:02 GMT -5
I'm a 5.1 guy.. I would love to reassign the extra 2 channels for High Fronts. Or have the option for active bi-amping for L/R mains. I think active bi-amping would not cost anything more than programming. The High fronts might cost more for licensing. There is a plus side for Emotiva to do this. 2 more amp channels needed, and two more front speakers needed for high fronts. I hope more 5.1 guys like this.. I got to order my XMC-1 today (:!!!(:!!!(:!!!(:!!! Can not wait..(:
+1
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Post by socketman on Jul 31, 2014 14:10:59 GMT -5
I'm a 5.1 guy.. I would love to reassign the extra 2 channels for High Fronts. Or have the option for active bi-amping for L/R mains. I think active bi-amping would not cost anything more than programming. The High fronts might cost more for licensing. There is a plus side for Emotiva to do this. 2 more amp channels needed, and two more front speakers needed for high fronts. I hope more 5.1 guys like this.. I got to order my XMC-1 today (:!!!(:!!!(:!!!(:!!! Can not wait..(:
+1
I will supersize that with a +4 |
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Jul 31, 2014 14:22:19 GMT -5
I like Pete's idea about REW and the XMC. Hi Given that our friends over at HomeTheaterShack created the profile in REW for the UMC-200, I thought we might as well get our request in early to them to add XMC-1 as well. We already know that there are 11 bands per channel (inc. sub), which is nice. We also know from the manual that you can set gain at -64db to +6 in .5db increments and that frequency can be set from 20Hz to 20kHz. However, we don't know the steps in frequency, nor the range or steps in Q. Anyone care to comment on these so that we can get the request into John and the guys. Also, since we now have working USB ports, it would be lovely if there was a way to upload all those data points from REW - long shot I know, but would save lots of clicking. pete S |
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Post by jdskycaster on Jul 31, 2014 15:30:30 GMT -5
Remember Chuck, The XMC-1 does have true Fletcher-Munson loudness compensation! Its curve is modified by the volume setting. More compensation at lower levels and less as you get louder. If the midnight mode really becomes an issue; it's straightforward to port in. I've never found it to be listenable... But that's me. Cheers, Big Dan As I don't have my XMC-1 yet I had no idea that Fletcher-Munson loudness compensation had been fully implemented. It seems it should be referenced to a calibrated level. Is the the same reference level used in the speaker setup? I couldn't live without the midnight mode. When I watch a movie late night, I am guarantied a visit from my wife if it's not turned on! Lucky My Blu-Ray also supports it! Looking forward to getting(on order) my XMC-1 I hate to say it as a dynamic listening mode is not important to everyone but it factored into my decision to hold off on my purchase. I also use Audyssey Dynamic Volume a lot. Not just for late night listening but when I get fatigued by the wide dynamic range of some movies. In this case I hear zero detrimental effects on movie soundtracks. In fact just the opposite. Dialogue becomes clearer and massive sound FX are natural and less in your face. JD |
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Post by Chuck Elliot on Jul 31, 2014 15:51:01 GMT -5
I hate to say it as a dynamic listening mode is not important to everyone but it factored into my decision to hold off on my purchase. I also use Audyssey Dynamic Volume a lot. Not just for late night listening but when I get fatigued by the wide dynamic range of some movies. In this case I hear zero detrimental effects on movie soundtracks. In fact just the opposite. Dialogue becomes clearer and massive sound FX are natural and less in your face. JD Audyssey Dynamic Volume has 3 settings light/medium/heavy on my Onkyo. I find heavy exactly that - too much compression, Medium in most cases is perfect. |
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Post by jdskycaster on Jul 31, 2014 16:26:56 GMT -5
Chuck,
Same here. Medium is usually the perfect setting. So much so that I rarely turn it off.
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Post by cwt on Aug 1, 2014 13:14:12 GMT -5
The ISO graphs are the red ones on the chart I posted. Blue is FM. Yes ; they track well considering the original graphs were derived from headphones :)Will be interested in your thoughts on the FM compared to audyssey dyn eq Chuck ; have only ever experienced the dolby metadata compression mode on the cary 11a ; not even dolby volume  |
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Post by seraphic on Aug 1, 2014 15:28:57 GMT -5
Still waiting for my XCM-1 offer e-mail, but I would like to suggest adding support for additional Dolby Pro Logic IIz and DTS Neo:X Digital Post Processing Modes.
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Post by dc2light on Aug 1, 2014 17:05:51 GMT -5
I suggest that an additional mode be added. This would be exactly the same as the "Differential Reference" mode (analog stereo signal to main LR channels is not digitized), except that the signal would also be sent to the sub(s) channel via the A/D converters. The main signal would not have any crossover, but the subs could use the digital low pass filter and EQ'ing.
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I even called an FM station once because I could tell their cartridge was out of phase. 
) 
Audyssey Dynamic Volume in my case. It is just a straightforward single band compressor, with some look-ahead. Multiband compressors should work better but they are angry for processing resources. Dolby Volume claims something like 40 bands... Unfortunately it is bound to the Dolby decoder, so cannot be used with non-Dolby content... I've never been able to evaluate how good it sounds as practically everything is encoded in some other format.
