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Post by tchaik on Sept 14, 2014 11:50:45 GMT -5
yes, i really did hear a big big improvement. i don't know the particulars of the insides but my conversation with dan revealed that these are two completely different animals and it is the application of the parts, engineering and design that make the dc-1 what it is. i have an xda-1 in my office with airmotiv6's and i am planning to replace with stealth 6's and a dc-1 around xmas. tchaik............. So you were comparing it to the XDA-1 not the XDA-2 right? The XDA-2 is a different animal from the flawed XDA-1. From what I can see the difference is the DC-1 has two AD1955 in mono mode vs a single in the XDA-2. Also DC-1 uses LM4562 vs OPA2132. My fav opamp in testing a few years back is the LME49710 mono in a TO-99 can package. I believe the LME49720 is almost identical to the LM4562 or at least it is on the spec sheet. Lets hope the RMC-1 uses TO-99 LME49710s in an output PCB that's balanced for 5 channels. I tested SOIC vs TO-99 and the mental can package is superior in every metric. National won the EDN product of the year for the LM4562 and the LME49720 is a bin sorted better quality version of it. Now imagine that IC in a single TOC-99 package!
LME49710 TOC-99 in RMC-1 Emo/Jade!PS if mono use up to much PCB space go 710 on the L/Rs but 720 on the center and surrounds... no, no..... i compared it to my xda-2 in my piano room at home. i just mentioned changing my office one because i like it so much. that'sall..... tchaik............ |
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hemster
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Post by hemster on Sept 14, 2014 12:37:18 GMT -5
Does the XMC-1 use LM4562?I have yet to crack mine open to take a look. I thought it had JRCs at least looking at earlier beta design PCBs from a few years back. SOIC LM4562 is the sweet spot in price to performance ratio and arguably one of the best opamps around. This may be a question to ask in one of the XMC-1 threads. Can we please stay on topic here? |
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Post by solidstate on Sept 14, 2014 13:26:48 GMT -5
Does the XMC-1 use LM4562?I have yet to crack mine open to take a look. I thought it had JRCs at least looking at earlier beta design PCBs from a few years back. SOIC LM4562 is the sweet spot in price to performance ratio and arguably one of the best opamps around. This may be a question to ask in one of the XMC-1 threads. Can we please stay on topic here? Do you know if Emo/Jade intends to use the DC-1 line drive in the RMC-1 with LM4562? I just read a bunch of guru opinions and many feel the LM4562 has more "punch" and dynamics than even the LME467x0. Many say the LM4562 sounds different and it oscillates a lot easier than the LME part. It really sounds like Emo/Jade nailed the line driver stage in the DC-1 and it would be great to see such work move towards pieces like the RMC-1. Sorry to derail somewhat. Do you know where I can get a high rez photo of the DC-1's output PCB? |
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Post by solidstate on Sept 14, 2014 14:03:08 GMT -5
I found a large photo of the DC-1 PCB. emotiva.com/sites/default/files/styles/product_very_large/public/DC1_TOP.png?itok=P0HzjYRsIt looks like DIP through-hole OPA2132s are used for I/V conversion with through-hole resistors but with surfacemount caps and not LM4562. LM4562s are used to drive the voltage dif signal and it looks like a DIP one is also used in the drive stage's power supply or perhaps that's balsie. Wait... is the LM4562s the balsie part of the circuit? Sure looks like it... Weird use of through-hole with surface mount IMHO especially using 0603 with through-hole. Generally you see larger 0805 SM packages when used with through-hole. Some of the CD caps are even smaller 0402 package! Why does it use 0402 package and then half a centimeter away go to through-hole and a DIP opamp? The single ended section uses surface mount resistors. No comment on those red chinese caps Emo/Jade seems to INSIST on using BTW... It would sure be great to see emotiva focus on using higher quality brand component like Wima FKP vs. stuff like those red caps in the Reference line. Are they polyimide or metalized polyester? How about ELNA vs chinese XICON knockoffs. Wima PCM is best here I've heard. First thing I'd do to is replace those red Chinese Xicon knockoffs with Wima PCM package FKP 2 caps. What do those five relays do? Bad caps lists. shaddack.twibright.com/projects/badcaps/www.badcaps.net/forum/index.php?s=c73c2b108d860ff77e4430cf1573bc07Interesting review on a DIY I/V stage. www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/monica2_op_e.htmlIt's a folded cascode.  Some various output stages worth a look. peufeu.free.fr/audio/extremist_dac/implement_4.htmlHere is the guy's final design with bias sinks and LP filter.  |
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Post by solidstate on Sept 14, 2014 16:59:11 GMT -5
The OPA2134 is what's used I/V conversion, balanced output driver and balanced to single ended conversion. The singled ended line drive is what uses the LM4562 so the LM4562 benefit is only via the single ended output.
I have no idea what the LM4562 DIP is doing the PSU section.
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Post by solidstate on Sept 16, 2014 16:27:57 GMT -5
What do I know... Here is a B.M.C. DAC worth 2 grand that's made in China and is using the same caps as the Emotiva piece.  I think Emo/Jade goes to great lengths to source component parts that are quality but have a decent price. How else could they provide such good sounding gear at such low prices!?! |
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Post by Percussionista on Sept 16, 2014 18:39:50 GMT -5
You really noticed that big of an improvement with that DAC vs. the XDA-2? Just received my DC-1 and got it set-up with my older XDA-2 running into the DC-1's analog ins (RCA) so I could make a "reasonable" comparison, fairly quickly. The DC-1 is driving a pair of Stealth-8's via balanced cables, on my desk, speakers 2-3 feet from my ears. Sourcing music from my Win7 PC via USB to both units, played via foobar2000/WASAPI at full original resolution of the music files. Going back and forth between different tracks I was not initially hearing really obvious differences. Sometimes it takes me a while to zoom in on where the differences might lay. I found a spot to check in a track by Amy Duncan (Crack in the World), which is a flac recorded at 88.2kHz, where she modulates up, holds and comes down. DC-1 was considerably smoother, what I often describe as "liquid" on the high parts. Ok, now I'm off to zoom in on what's on high. Played a regular CD quality cut of Rachmaninoff's Symphonic Dances from Reference Recordings, very high quality "life-like" recording. On the XDA-2 the background is somewhat "black" as some say, in that instruments appear (clearly) in place but there is a sense of them hiding out. On the DC-1 the upper spectrum opened up and was live. Note, from my own ear testing, last time I checked I can only hear up to about 13kHz, so I'm missing about the last octave, but I could hear what was going on no problem. One-Two punch now. Tried Amy Duncan on headphones on both - now it's direct USB to each unit, direct to headphones - Sennheiser HD-800's. Again, the XDA-2 was clear with a "black" background, but the DC-1 was TOTALLY alive in comparison. The XDA-2 sounded "damped" at the high end in comparison. For these 300 ohm headphones, absolutely no comparison. Had to try a more "modest" set of cans - Sony MDR 7506 Pro - which are only 63 ohms units. Ok, much less difference here, maybe even a smidge more "life" via the XDA-2, maybe a smidge more bass definition on the DC-1. Maybe ;-) My set is fairly old so I don't know if they are spec'd the same as what I see listed currently. Fortunately I liked the Senn's better ;-) Tired of plugging HP cables in and out now - need to pull the XDA-2 and reconfigure so I can finally integrate the surround sound system through the fronts. Yay! DC-1, I'm a believer! |
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Post by stephen on Sept 16, 2014 19:36:25 GMT -5
How do these components stack up to the xmc-1 as a 2 channel DAC?
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Post by garbulky on Sept 17, 2014 0:06:14 GMT -5
Percussionista: glad to hear! I don't remember if we had a conversation about it. It's a fine DAC and an upgrade (for me).
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Post by solidstate on Sept 17, 2014 15:36:03 GMT -5
How do these components stack up to the xmc-1 as a 2 channel DAC? The I/V line drive I'd say isn't in the same league due to PCB space limitations in a device like the XMC-1. It's no slouch though as instantly I could here an improvement when I dropped it into my rig. A lot more midbass presence and the highs are sweeter with less shrill sibilance. |
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Post by Tungx2 on Jun 29, 2016 14:09:18 GMT -5
The DC-1 is simply the most versatile piece of audio gear I've ever purchased plus it sounds fantastic and a huge bargain to boot. The magic box has transformed by system and, for better or worse, has killed my audiophile restlessness. It's so versatile that I figured out how to connect my bass guitar to it too! Works fantastic. Hello, I am about to purchase an electric guitar. Can the DC-1 or XMC-1 be used to pre-amp the guitar? |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jun 29, 2016 14:18:06 GMT -5
The DC-1 has a line level analog input, a level control, and some gain in its analog circuitry. However, it doesn't have enough gain to boost the direct output of a guitar pickup up to line level. Therefore, you could connect the DC-1 to the output of a guitar preamp, or use it with a guitar that had its own preamp, and a line level output. However, it really wouldn't provide enough gain to work well with most guitars whose output comes directly from the pickup. (You would want to use one of those little "black box" guitar preamps directly on the guitar - then connect its output to the DC-1.) It's so versatile that I figured out how to connect my bass guitar to it too! Works fantastic. Hello, I am about to purchase an electric guitar. Can the DC-1 or XMC-1 be used to pre-amp the guitar? |
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Post by Axis on Jun 29, 2016 14:21:10 GMT -5
It's so versatile that I figured out how to connect my bass guitar to it too! Works fantastic. Hello, I am about to purchase an electric guitar. Can the DC-1 or XMC-1 be used to pre-amp the guitar? No, you need to get a proper Direct Interface preamp for your electric guitar. www.sweetwater.com/c957--Direct_BoxesSomething simple that works great with a electric guitar is something like this. From this you could feed the analog signal into your audio system if you wished to hear you guitar through it. www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/RNDI |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jun 29, 2016 15:48:52 GMT -5
Exactly. Once you have the signal at line level - you can send it to the analog input on the DC-1 (but all it will do is act as a high quality volume control). You could do the same with the XMC-1, and then you COULD use the parametric equalizers on the XMC-1 to do all sorts of cool EQ stuff (but it would be a bit of overkill)  Hello, I am about to purchase an electric guitar. Can the DC-1 or XMC-1 be used to pre-amp the guitar? No, you need to get a proper Direct Interface preamp for your electric guitar. www.sweetwater.com/c957--Direct_BoxesSomething simple that works great with a electric guitar is something like this. From this you could feed the analog signal into your audio system if you wished to hear you guitar through it. www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/RNDI |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2016 19:43:39 GMT -5
I recently got a upa-200 at a great price and paired with the DC-1 it just sounds fantastic! I can't imagine a integrated amp with a built in DAC under $2000 sounding much better. Not trying to be super fanboy but I have followed Emotiva since it's AV123 days and despite a few shortcomings here and there they have let this man of modest means enjoy audio quality that I would have been unable to enjoy otherwise. Thanks Emotiva!
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Post by Axis on Jun 29, 2016 20:28:36 GMT -5
Everyone that has a Emotiva Stealth DC-1 should pair it with what it was made to pair with.
Emotiva Stealth or Emotiva Airmotiv Powered Monitors !
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Post by tchaik on Jun 29, 2016 20:50:20 GMT -5
Everyone that has a Emotiva Stealth DC-1 should pair it with what it was made to pair with. Emotiva Stealth or Emotiva Airmotiv Powered Monitors ! agreed……….. i have mine with the stealth 8s tchaik………… |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Jun 29, 2016 21:00:36 GMT -5
+1...that is a stellar combo!
Mark
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Post by Tungx2 on Jun 30, 2016 2:47:39 GMT -5
Everyone that has a Emotiva Stealth DC-1 should pair it with what it was made to pair with. Emotiva Stealth or Emotiva Airmotiv Powered Monitors ! agreed……….. i have mine with the stealth 8s tchaik………… Same combo here  Dc-1 with stealth 8 |
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Post by kewlmunky on Jun 30, 2016 7:56:37 GMT -5
Everyone that has a Emotiva Stealth DC-1 should pair it with what it was made to pair with. Emotiva Stealth or Emotiva Airmotiv Powered Monitors ! agreed……….. i have mine with the stealth 8s tchaik………… Originally I used a ControlFreak for my Stealth 8s, but then I stumbled upon a used XDA-2 for only $120! Thinking I may eventually get the Stealth DC-1. I'd like an analog input, and only need one optical and coaxial so I wouldn't mind losing some digital inputs. I wonder if Emotiva has considered a DAC that has an SD card slot so that I could use a remote to sift through music. |
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