XMC-1 USB Stream Input Firmware and Driver UPDATE

[ejn1111]

Nov 27, 2014 21:47:49 GMT -5 rogersch said:

Nov 27, 2014 21:28:50 GMT -5 ejn1111 said:

Well, I have uncovered part of the issue... I had my HTPC on an HDMI input. I then changed the input to have HDMI for video, and USB stream for audio.

If you have already a HDMI connection from your PC to the XMC-1 why would you want to use USB for audio?

Hi. Much better sound quality to an Asynchonous DAC.... HDMI is one of the worst digital connections (imo) for serious 2 channel listening.

[rogersch]

Nov 27, 2014 23:32:52 GMT -5 ejn1111 said:

Nov 27, 2014 21:47:49 GMT -5 rogersch said:

If you have already a HDMI connection from your PC to the XMC-1 why would you want to use USB for audio?

Hi. Much better sound quality to an Asynchonous DAC.... HDMI is one of the worst digital connections (imo) for serious 2 channel listening.

Mmm I did a direct comparison test on the XMC-1 and didn't hear a difference....

[ejn1111]

Nov 28, 2014 1:56:57 GMT -5 rogersch said:

Nov 27, 2014 23:32:52 GMT -5 ejn1111 said:

Hi. Much better sound quality to an Asynchonous DAC.... HDMI is one of the worst digital connections (imo) for serious 2 channel listening.

Mmm I did a direct comparison test on the XMC-1 and didn't hear a difference....

lots of factors that determine whether you can hear a difference or not... but for people that set up dedicated audiophile 2 channel systems for computer based audio, no one is using HDMI protocol for their primary digital transfer. Lots you can read on the net on this but if you don't hear a difference then stick whats easiest for your setup.

Did you build your ncore amps yourself?

[orthodoct]

I was on the reserve list for the XMC1 and received it over two months ago.  I was promised a software upgrade and the Dirac system.  Not a peep from Emotiva.  I had the confidence to order a new untried product to support their company and want to know when they will fulfill their end of the bargain.  Emails sent go unanswered.  I am very surprised especially with a company located in my own home state of Tennessee.  Any body else having this problem???

[rogersch]

Nov 28, 2014 9:49:03 GMT -5 ejn1111 said:

Did you build your ncore amps yourself?

Yes I did. They are nearly three years old. Build them in anticipation of the XMC-1. Didn't knew then that it would take so long before the XMC-1 was available...

[ejn1111]

Nov 28, 2014 10:52:20 GMT -5 orthodoct said:

I was on the reserve list for the XMC1 and received it over two months ago.  I was promised a software upgrade and the Dirac system.  Not a peep from Emotiva.  I had the confidence to order a new untried product to support their company and want to know when they will fulfill their end of the bargain.  Emails sent go unanswered.  I am very surprised especially with a company located in my own home state of Tennessee.  Any body else having this problem???

Suggest you post this in the Dirac thread... This thread is about the USB Stream input.

[ejn1111]

Nov 28, 2014 10:56:52 GMT -5 rogersch said:

Nov 28, 2014 9:49:03 GMT -5 ejn1111 said:

Did you build your ncore amps yourself?

Yes I did. They are nearly three years old. Build them in anticipation of the XMC-1. Didn't knew then that it would take so long before the XMC-1 was available...

Would love to see a pic of your amp build. I've heard great things about those.

[LCSeminole]

Nov 28, 2014 10:52:20 GMT -5 orthodoct said:

I was on the reserve list for the XMC1 and received it over two months ago.  I was promised a software upgrade and the Dirac system.  Not a peep from Emotiva.  I had the confidence to order a new untried product to support their company and want to know when they will fulfill their end of the bargain.  Emails sent go unanswered.  I am very surprised especially with a company located in my own home state of Tennessee.  Any body else having this problem???

If you are looking for software/firmware updates check out the XMC-1 product page under the resources tab, as of now we are on the 3rd update. As for DIRAC, if you listen to the last two PodCasts there is info that you've most likely not heard. If you have any questions on how to update or just any questions in general about the XMC-1, we, the Lounge members will be more than glad to help if we can.

emotiva.com/products/pres-and-pros/xmc-1

emotiva.com/sites/default/files/podcasts/093014/podcast.mp3

emotiva.com/sites/default/files/podcasts/112014/podcast.mp3

[4sfed]

I just went through this traumatic process and had no end of issues on Windows 8.1 64bit. I was initially able to delete the firmware but not update to the new version so my XMC was crippled. Could not get the update to work, the app just hung and had to reboot the PC constantly. Then tried in Windows 7 64bit and the same deal. Built a Windows 7 32bit VM running on my Windows 8.1 machine and that finally did the trick - albeit unbelievably slowly (about 20mins).

The next issue was trying to install the windows drivers, which, again wouldn't work on Windows 8.1 no matter how i tried. Eventually i came across some other drivers for the same chipset and they worked a treat in Windows 8.1. I believe this has been linked to before on this forum so no harm in doing it again: schiit.com/drivers/

Now onto the actual testing....

[wizardofoz]

The time it takes for this software to run and get a response from the Xmc-1 is rediculous. I would not be surprised if one gives up as a machine or app hung condition by not waiting long enough for it to come up with a result...many many minuets passed before I got any results.

Start it up and go make a coffee or have a beer...it takes an age....don't five up.

[geebo]

On my Windows 8.1 laptop it didn't take long at all. 10 to 15 minutes for the entire process. I wonder why the large variations.

[KeithL]

In general, Windows 8.1, and the current generation of machines you're likely to be running it on, have a lot of variations in terms of how they can be configured. Things like "driver signature enforcement" may or may not be turned on by default in specific builds, or on the build that comes loaded on specific brands of machines. If your copy of Windows 8.1 was an upgrade from Windows 8.0, then your current configuration may be different because of that, or the upgrade version may be slightly different than the "new installs". Security settings also vary depending on the disk security settings on the machine you're using. This causes a lot of headaches for anyone who needs to use and provide drivers. It would be really nice if Microsoft would include UAC2 drivers in Windows 8.0 and 8.1 - as Apple does - since UAC2 is standard - but they don't seem eager to do so. (If you happen to participate in the Windows 10 beta, and make suggestions, then UAC2 support should be at the top of your request list ).

The firmware update utility is a different matter... it is a production tool... which means that the guys who wrote it simply didn't worry that much about being able to run it on a wide variety of machines. They assumed you'd build a machine to run it, figure out what configuration worked well for it, and then keep using it. (Luckily you'll never have to run it again.) Many utilities run very slowly on VMWare; since VMWare is essentially part way between an operating system and an emulator, there's a lot going on when you use it. We tried to use it for loading the USB firmware but, as you noticed, it runs that utility very slowly - although it does work reliably in the end. In contrast, on Windows 7 installed directly onto the hardware, it runs quite quickly. It also crashes frequently, but can be trusted to have done a proper job when it reports a successful completion.

You're welcome to use the Schiit Audio drivers... they're basically the same drivers, for the same USB chip, from the same vendor... just a slightly different build version... they should work fine.

For those of you who like to experiment with drivers, you should note that there are several different points at which things can work... or not.

First, specific driver INSTALLERS will ask you to connect your device before allowing the drivers to be installed, and they may require that a specific device be connected when doing so. (For example, our older USB drivers will work with the XMC-1 if they're already installed on your computer, but will only allow themselves to be installed if you connect a DC-1 or an XDA-2 to the computer when installing them. You may find other drivers that work with the XMC-1 once they're installed, but that will only let you install them if some particular other device is connected when you run the installer.)  If you don't realize this interlock may exist, it can be terribly confusing.

Second, Windows driver signature enforcement can prevent you from installing OR RUNNING drivers. If it is enabled, you won't be able to install or run unsigned drivers. If you disable it temporarily (using F8), you will usually be able to install the drivers, and they will work for that session, but they will STOP WORKING the next time you reboot your computer and driver signature enforcement comes back on. Device Manager will then show the yellow triangle and exclamation point and say that the drivers aren't installed. (This will actually "break" them. You will usually have to disable driver signature enforcement, AND THEN REMOVE AND REINSTALL THE DRIVERS, to get them to work again. )

Third, these security settings may change at any time due to the results of an automatic security update to Windows itself, which may change the default settings, or because some other program you run or install changes them.

Dec 1, 2014 22:31:50 GMT -5 4sfed said:

I just went through this traumatic process and had no end of issues on Windows 8.1 64bit. I was initially able to delete the firmware but not update to the new version so my XMC was crippled. Could not get the update to work, the app just hung and had to reboot the PC constantly. Then tried in Windows 7 64bit and the same deal. Built a Windows 7 32bit VM running on my Windows 8.1 machine and that finally did the trick - albeit unbelievably slowly (about 20mins).

The next issue was trying to install the windows drivers, which, again wouldn't work on Windows 8.1 no matter how i tried. Eventually i came across some other drivers for the same chipset and they worked a treat in Windows 8.1. I believe this has been linked to before on this forum so no harm in doing it again: schiit.com/drivers/

Now onto the actual testing....

[michaelhifi]

Just received and unboxed my XMC last night. Relevant to this thread I hooked up my CAP's server via an SoTM reclocker card then to an iFi Gemini cabled USB to the XMC. It sounded a bit raw at first (typical of new electronics), but then settled down after about 3 hours and was sounding very nice. No problems playing from Jriver 20. Drivers loaded as a SPDIF which I thought kind of odd. There were no named XMC USB driver options in Jriver options menu but still played very, very well without any setup. Can't wait to get some hours on this thing! I'll post my initial impressions elsewhere on this site.
FWIW

[KeithL]

To answer your question - belatedly.....

NO; I only connected USB for this test.

HDMI certainly has been known to override other settings - or mess with them.

In general, the "underlying problem" is that computers tend to "think of" HDMI as a VIDEO connection. In the old days, you often had to actually take a "loopback wire" from the output of your sound card and connect it to an input on your video card so the video card had audio to merge with the video to send over the HDMI connection. Most modern video cards handle this internally, but the computer still treats them as if the audio and video were separate - and often uses separate drivers internally. Some modern video cards still have separate audio and video drivers. It doesn't surprise me that certain combinations may force the audio to fit certain requirements so it "fits together" with the video. (They may be limiting the audio to 16/96, or whatever, when you're using HDMI, so they have the audio available at that sample rate and bit depth to use with the video.)

Nov 26, 2014 16:41:26 GMT -5 ejn1111 said:

Keith, thanks for the post. By chance to you have the Dell also connected to the XMC-1 via HDMI (for video out)?

Nov 26, 2014 12:29:59 GMT -5 KeithL said:

JRIVER and WINDOWS 8.1 x64

Since a few people seem to be having trouble with jRiver 20 and WASAPI ....

I just tried this on my test machine here.
This is a Dell Optiplex 3010 (desktop) running a 64 bit copy of Windows 8.1 (which was updated online from the original Windows 8.0 OEM version that came with the machine).
Driver Signature Enforcement has previously been disabled (using the instructions included with the driver).
I started the machine from full off (full boot, not hibernation) without holding down any keys.

The drivers appear to have loaded correctly (there were no errors).

Under Device Manager, the XMC-1 is identified as "XMC-1".
On the tab under Driver Properties it says "C-MEDIA" - which is the interface chip we use (if you see MicroSoft there, then the WRONG driver is loaded).

I have jRiver v 20.0.10 installed (which is relatively recent).
jRiver shows the XMC-1 as "SPDIF OUT (3-XMC-1) WASAPI (note that the number before "XMC-1" will vary depending on what other devices you have loaded).
I have Bit Depth set to AUTO.
I think everything else is set more or less to the defaults, and with the new drivers, it doesn't matter if you "Disable Event Mode" under WASAPI or not....

When I play a 24/192 file (from one of the new HDTracks Grateful Dead remasters) it shows on the XMC-1 as "A:USB PCM2.0 192kHz 24bits"

It shows the same when I play it through FooBar2000 on the same computer.

-------------------------

Since I can't replicate any problem here, all I can do is make some suggestions......

* For those of you who have older XMC-1's whose USB firmware you've updated.... once the USB firmware update has been successfully applied, it is VERY permanent.
    It won't disappear, or mysteriously return to the older version; unless you re-run the installer, and physically install a different version, you can think of it like new hardware.
    Likewise, I have never seen a situation where, after confirming that the correct version was present on the USB interface chip, it later turned out not to be.
    (I mention this specifically because being able to work at 24/96 but not 24/192 is a typical symptom of NOT having the USB firmware update.)

* The C-Media interface chip we use is relatively popular, so it is not unlikely that Windows might find and install the WRONG driver is allowed to search for drivers or do an automatic driver update.
    (However, Windows should NOT be doing this unless you tell it to).
    If this happens, installing the correct driver (ours) will fix it.

* On most 64 bit versions of Windows 8.0 and 8.1 (and even some few 64 bit copies of Windows 7) you MUST have Driver Signature Enforcement turned off to install the driver
    and it must remain off. If it gets turned back on, the driver will disappear or become disabled. If this happens, you will have to reinstall the driver.
    (When Driver Signature Enforcement is turned on, it will physically remove parts of the driver, so simply turning it back off again will NOT put the driver back.)
    The method I provided in the driver instructions for disabling Driver Signature Enforcement should work for all computers and SHOULD be permanent (it worked on every computer I tried it with)....
    HOWEVER, there are multiple methods for doing this, and reports suggest that not all methods work for all computers and version subsets of Windows.

*NOTE that you won't see the drivers in Device Manager (or your application) unless the XMC-1 is connected and turned On (you don't have to have that input selected).   
    This also means that, if you have a bad cable, or a too long cable, or a flaky USB port, the drivers won't load and won't be visible.
    If you look in Device Manager and see Microsoft drivers, it almost certainly means that our drivers have been damaged and will need to be reinstalled.

* To reinstall the drivers, you should run the driver installer, let it REMOVE the drivers if it says they're still there, reboot the computer, then reinstall the drivers.
    It doesn't matter if the computer tries to automatically install other drivers and fails - or even if it succeeds.
    
Unfortunately, some individual computers and Windows installations may act other than the normal default behavior for Windows.
For example, Driver Signature Enforcement is ENABLED in some Asus 64 bit WINDOWS 7 laptops, even though it normally is not enabled for Windows 7/64.
It is also possible that certain "automatic driver checkers" may delete our driver and replace it with the wrong one.

Incidentally, the information you see listed for drivers and devices in the "output device selection" screens of many programs comes from a variety of places.
This is why you sometimes see things like the XMC-1 being identified as "S/PDIF device" (the C-Media chip is actually reporting that it is configured to use ITS S/PDIF output).

In general, since both the S/PDIF interface, and the normal implementations of USB audio, pad 16 bit audio data to 16 bits, the XMC-1 should ALWAYS show USB audio as 24 bits.
(Even 16 bit audio will normally be padded by the USB interface to 24 bits. If the XMC-1 shows 16 bits for a USB audio source, this is another indication that there's something weird going on with the drivers or your settings.)

[Thunderduck]

Is there a way to check in the Information section of the Menu to see if the USB Streaming firmware is up to date?

I received my replacement XMC right around October 20th. I went ahead and installed the Windows USB drivers since that was really straightforward. I hesitate with the firmware update because that has hoops to jump through and my history with firmware updates is spotty (Marantz not Emotiva).

Thanks.

[michaelhifi]

Really? I just the better part of 3 hours attempting to get the correct driver in place. I have failed. Never mind the part about having to make sure your keyboard USB cable is plugged into a USB2.0 port (don't get me started) because it doesn't work in USB3 on the last reboot, in the end I managed to get the driver "installed" but not seen. I still have the XMC-1 SPDIF. Even when I try to crowbar the driver by updating and pointing it to the (strange it didn't install into the normal windows location) documents folder, Windows insists that the "best driver" is already installed. And yes in Windows management it shows XMC-1 SPDIF but no XMC-1 USB.

I keep on thinking I'm done with computer audio....

FYI I just received the XMC yesterday, so I'm assuming I have the correct update.

[Deleted]

Dec 2, 2014 21:54:31 GMT -5 michaelhifi said:

Really? I just the better part of 3 hours attempting to get the correct driver in place. I have failed. Never mind the part about having to make sure your keyboard USB cable is plugged into a USB2.0 port (don't get me started) because it doesn't work in USB3 on the last reboot, in the end I managed to get the driver "installed" but not seen. I still have the XMC-1 SPDIF. Even when I try to crowbar the driver by updating and pointing it to the (strange it didn't install into the normal windows location) documents folder, Windows insists that the "best driver" is already installed. And yes in Windows management it shows XMC-1 SPDIF but no XMC-1 USB.

I keep on thinking I'm done with computer audio....

FYI I just received the XMC yesterday, so I'm assuming I have the correct update.

Amen!

[wizardofoz]

when I play DSD from my Oppo via HDMI I get DSD info indicated...I was hoping the USB would indicate similarly but it seems to not know there is DSD coming at it...it does play tho DSD 128 and even DSD multi channel files as downloaded from 2L's test files here www.2l.no/hires/ that is unless my Synology is transcoding it to 24/192 in another format

[justhavingfun]

I received my XMC-1 on Monday 1 December and was able to set it up and running replacing UMC-1 that night but didn't have any time to test it out other than it works with my Sony BD player. Next evening, after quick setup, I was set to hook up my HTPC (old Windows Vista 32bit). The USB driver for XMC-1 installed fine without a hitch. HTPC shows both audio playback devices for XMC-1 and AMD graphic card (video/audio, HDMI hooked up) and I can choose which audio device as my default choice. However, when XMC-1 is chosen as default audio device, only certain type media player such as XBMC in my HTPC works with audio. When in this configuration, web-stream such as Youtube and Spotify do not produce any sounds. If I disable XMC-1 usb audio and set AMD graphic card HDMI as default audio playback, the audio works in all of media player including web-based streaming media. But if I disable AMD graphic card audio device and set XMC-1 as the default audio playback device, the streaming media do not have any audio. I am still looking into why that is the case but maybe someone out there has the answer already. By the way, XMC-1 sounds and looks way better than the UMC-1 even without the DIRAC implementation.

[michaelhifi]

I'm out of ideas folks. I unloaded all of my audio based USB drivers. Rebooted several times. I loaded EMO's USB driver which seemed to install. What I get is this damn etron driver. XMC-1 SPDIF which happily down-samples my hi rez when running Jriver 20.

I tried even to "trick the computer by unplugging the XMC and plugging back in (sometimes stupid S works too)

So it begs the question; why does my Dspeaker anti-mode usb driver work flawlessly? Why does the SoTM driver work too? Why does the Oppo USB driver work so simply? Why doesn't the Emotiva driver work?

I mean, to be honest, I'm willing to go through some pain. God only knows I've been there, with computer audio. My Squeeezbox 3 and Transporter worked great. My PS Audio not-so Perfect Wave - I felt like err, like I was a beta tester!

And to be fair I know it's the dark days of computers and Win 8 is a SPOC, but my hope was for at least streaming audio in SOTA quality (even as a pass-through to my Anti-Mode) and a prepro too. I'm 4 hours into this and I want to hear what XMC-1 is capable of. I think it has greatness as a clean simple 2 channel preamp. I LOVE the reference and direct modes! It's like, these are guys who love and care about music. Let Me Hear It as good as it can be.

Now what? What am I missing?
Thanks for your help