Lsc
Emo VIPs 
Posts: 3,435
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Post by Lsc on Oct 31, 2014 0:04:27 GMT -5
I upgraded from the xpa-5 gen 1 to the xpr-5 and yes you are getting an upgrade in sound quality. The xpa-5 was a very good amp but the xpr-5 is smoother sounding and there is a greater sense of effortlessness. No theoretically speculation here. And no I'm not on the emotiva payroll.  It's a good investment IMHO if you really care about sound quality. And it can be the last amp you may need to buy for those 5 channels. As you see I also have an xpa-2 gen2 and my wife who is not an audio person and actually hates the fact that I am, clearly said "this sounds better, no question" on a double blind test and I think the xpa-2 was set a little louder. |
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Post by guzz46 on Oct 31, 2014 1:28:26 GMT -5
Unfortunately the only way to know is to listen for yourself, as everyone will have different opinions, some people think the XPR-1 sounds better than the XPA-1, some people think the XPA-1 sounds better than the XPR-1, some people think they sound the same.
Some people think the Oppo bdp-95 sounds better than the Oppo bdp-105, some people think the opposite is true, some people think they sound the same, and so on.
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Lsc
Emo VIPs
Posts: 3,435
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Post by Lsc on Oct 31, 2014 15:07:12 GMT -5
I agree the best way is to listen for yourself, but with Internet direct that's not so easy. Also, if someone is asking for advice, I would like to offer them what I know and hope that it's of some help to them. They can take it or leave it or whatever. All I know is that with my speakers, the XPR-5 is all the amp I'll ever need. I don't have to get the xpr-1s etc. I'm happy with what I have...I like to think I maximized the value in each of my purchase decisions . |
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Post by usxplong on Nov 6, 2014 15:20:08 GMT -5
Well, I took the plunge and ordered the XPR-5.
I should receive it by the end of next week.
I will post my thoughts on it between XPA-5 & XPR-5.
I thank everyone for information posted for me.
One thing I realize is that as soon as someone is asking about upgrading the amp, almost everyone jumps on room size, speakers and how loud is the listening.
Then based on only those information people suggest to upgrade or not.
The sad thing is majority do not care about the sound quality between amps.
I can use 2 different amps without clipping but will get 2 different sound quality.
I appreciate Lsc's comment on the sound quality vs just raw power.
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Post by memotiva on Nov 6, 2014 15:28:12 GMT -5
There is no sound quality difference between amps. That's why people ask those things. Spend some time researching people who've done double blind tests on the subject. Alternatively, you can go and read the old book, The Emperor's New Clothes to get a better idea of why this myth perpetuates.
This is one of teh myths, such as fancy HDMI cables, speaker cables, etc, that are perpetuated by those that make and sell stereo equipment. Any difference you hear is placebo effect and when double blind testing is done, it's all the same.
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Post by usxplong on Nov 6, 2014 16:04:26 GMT -5
There is no sound quality difference between amps. That's why people ask those things. Spend some time researching people who've done double blind tests on the subject. Alternatively, you can go and read the old book, The Emperor's New Clothes to get a better idea of why this myth perpetuates. This is one of teh myths, such as fancy HDMI cables, speaker cables, etc, that are perpetuated by those that make and sell stereo equipment. Any difference you hear is placebo effect and when double blind testing is done, it's all the same. So you are saying the XPA-5, halo, Krell Chorus, McIntosh amp, all have the same sound? I hope you will not say "yes". |
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Post by thepcguy on Nov 6, 2014 18:08:10 GMT -5
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Post by vcautokid on Nov 6, 2014 21:15:18 GMT -5
I agree with most about your room. You could have some phase cancellation, or nulls in your room, so another amplifier will not fix that. Placement, room treatment help here, so if later you do change your gear, you will appreciate it more. I like the XPR amps allot too. XPA amps I have more experience with, and they get the job done very well in music,or theater. Just my nickel vs. 2 cents to account for inflation. |
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Post by novisnick on Nov 6, 2014 21:59:52 GMT -5
There is no sound quality difference between amps. That's why people ask those things. Spend some time researching people who've done double blind tests on the subject. Alternatively, you can go and read the old book, The Emperor's New Clothes to get a better idea of why this myth perpetuates. This is one of teh myths, such as fancy HDMI cables, speaker cables, etc, that are perpetuated by those that make and sell stereo equipment. Any difference you hear is placebo effect and when double blind testing is done, it's all the same.  |
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KeithL
Administrator 
Posts: 10,275
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Post by KeithL on Nov 7, 2014 3:14:54 GMT -5
I'd really love to agree with you - but, alas, I can't. (And fairy tales aren't necessarily all true...) Although I do agree that I've never heard most of the claimed differences between cables AND I've never seen any compelling scientific reason why I would expect to, and I agree that it is probably true that a lot of the differences people think they hear between amplifiers are almost certainly due to placebo effect, there are also real differences between how some amplifiers sound, at least some amplifiers, in some situations. The fact that a certain group of people couldn't hear the difference between specific amplfiers (connected to specific speakers, in a specific room, and with specific source material) is interesting, but hardly proves a generality. (I remember when Memorex "proved" that a cassette tape sounded so real you couldn't tell it from a live performance; Edison proved the same thing with his cylinder recordings; and Apple seems quite convinced that AAC is "plenty good enough".) I would agree that the differences between amplifiers (at least solid state ones designed to be accurate) are a lot less dramatic than some people seem to think, and that the differences that some people claim to hear between certain amplifiers of similar design and capabilities are probably imaginary, but at least some of them are real. We're not talking about something mystical here. It's just that speakers are a much more complex load than test resistors, so even amplifiers that measure identically when connected to an 8 ohm resistor may NOT act at all the same when connected to a speaker - especially if that speaker happens to be an especially difficult load to drive. (I've heard people try to claim that you can't hear the difference between a tube amp and a solid state one as long as the THD remains under 0.5%; they seem to forget the rather significant difference in damping factor between the two... 4 or 5 for the tube amp vs 5 or 5 HUNDRED for the solid state one. That difference will have no effect on measurements made with resistive loads, but can result in a variation in frequency response of +/- several dB with a real speaker load.) I don't know if you can hear the difference between a certain NAD model and a certain Levinson model, or if I can, with specific speakers and source material - since I've never tried, but I can tell you that I owned several Haflers, which all sounded rather similar, and which sounded quite different than my two Aragon 8008's - at least with Vandersteen 4's. The difference was quite dramatic with any source material that had bass with sharp transients - like well recorded drums. I can also tell you that I didn't hear any significant difference between them with any content with my KEF RDM 2's. The main differences between our XPA and XPR amps are power and efficiency (the XPR's are more powerful, and are more efficient at high power levels). The bigger power supplies also give them the ability to drive low efficiency speakers louder without distorting (otherwise known as "greated dynamic range"). I can tell you for sure that, if you let me pick the speakers, and what to play, and how loud, I can tell you which is which every time. I would also agree that, with different speakers, and with different content, I might NOT notice which was which. (We're talking the difference between different brands of bottled distilled water; not the difference between Coke and Dr Pepper.) I would always advise anybody upgrading their amps to consider doing their own double-blind test... with their speakers and content they're familiar with... and someone they trust running the switch. There is no sound quality difference between amps. That's why people ask those things. Spend some time researching people who've done double blind tests on the subject. Alternatively, you can go and read the old book, The Emperor's New Clothes to get a better idea of why this myth perpetuates. This is one of teh myths, such as fancy HDMI cables, speaker cables, etc, that are perpetuated by those that make and sell stereo equipment. Any difference you hear is placebo effect and when double blind testing is done, it's all the same. |
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Post by memotiva on Nov 7, 2014 3:23:42 GMT -5
There is no sound quality difference between amps. That's why people ask those things. Spend some time researching people who've done double blind tests on the subject. Alternatively, you can go and read the old book, The Emperor's New Clothes to get a better idea of why this myth perpetuates. This is one of teh myths, such as fancy HDMI cables, speaker cables, etc, that are perpetuated by those that make and sell stereo equipment. Any difference you hear is placebo effect and when double blind testing is done, it's all the same. So you are saying the XPA-5, halo, Krell Chorus, McIntosh amp, all have the same sound? I hope you will not say "yes". I already stated this. Inside of their linear operating limits, they all sound the same. You can apply whatever fancy brands you want to it, but much the snake oil effect applies just as it does to audioquest Everett cables. |
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Post by thepcguy on Nov 7, 2014 13:20:35 GMT -5
The main differences between our XPA and XPR amps are power and efficiency (the XPR's are more powerful, and are more efficient at high power levels). The bigger power supplies also give them the ability to drive low efficiency speakers louder without distorting (otherwise known as "greated dynamic range"). I can tell you for sure that, if you let me pick the speakers, and what to play, and how loud, I can tell you which is which every time. You haven't answered the OP's question. I'm pretty sure you've double-blind tested (or not?) Emotiva Amplifiers. Did you hear differences? all the time? Like 100% all the time? Also, I wonder if Emotiva would allow blind testing at Emofest. |
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Post by bigmule on Nov 8, 2014 14:06:52 GMT -5
There is no sound quality difference between amps. That's why people ask those things. Spend some time researching people who've done double blind tests on the subject. Alternatively, you can go and read the old book, The Emperor's New Clothes to get a better idea of why this myth perpetuates. This is one of teh myths, such as fancy HDMI cables, speaker cables, etc, that are perpetuated by those that make and sell stereo equipment. Any difference you hear is placebo effect and when double blind testing is done, it's all the same. I agree there is A LOT of snake oil in this business, however, I will almost always disagree with broad sweeping statements like "speaker cables and interconnects do not make a difference." They DO make a difference...now is that difference good or bad? Well that's up to the listener...is it worth it? Once again, up to the listener... It's no different with phono cartridges...lots of snake oil there as well....but once again, there are differences. We are lucky enough to be in the world of some awesome performing gear at reasonable prices. Cable companies simply offer what I call "tweaking"... Some dig it, some don't. I you came to my place, you could easily tell a difference between interconnects and speaker cables...vs let's say standard lamp cord. I've done it countless times with friends that have no interest in this hobby. Now, once again, is that difference worth it...? To many people it is not, to me it is without a doubt. But once again...that's my decision. Keep on groovin!!!! |
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Post by Jim on Nov 8, 2014 14:52:40 GMT -5
There is no sound quality difference between amps. That's why people ask those things. Spend some time researching people who've done double blind tests on the subject. Alternatively, you can go and read the old book, The Emperor's New Clothes to get a better idea of why this myth perpetuates. This is one of teh myths, such as fancy HDMI cables, speaker cables, etc, that are perpetuated by those that make and sell stereo equipment. Any difference you hear is placebo effect and when double blind testing is done, it's all the same. I agree there is A LOT of snake oil in this business, however, I will almost always disagree with broad sweeping statements like "speaker cables and interconnects do not make a difference." They DO make a difference...now is that difference good or bad? Well that's up to the listener...is it worth it? Once again, up to the listener... It's no different with phono cartridges...lots of snake oil there as well....but once again, there are differences. We are lucky enough to be in the world of some awesome performing gear at reasonable prices. Cable companies simply offer what I call "tweaking"... Some dig it, some don't. I you came to my place, you could easily tell a difference between interconnects and speaker cables...vs let's say standard lamp cord. I've done it countless times with friends that have no interest in this hobby. Now, once again, is that difference worth it...? To many people it is not, to me it is without a doubt. But once again...that's my decision. Keep on groovin!!!! Memotiva makes the same sweeping generalization about amps in every amp thread and misuses the term "snake oil" on a regular basis. It's nothing new. |
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Post by memotiva on Nov 9, 2014 1:59:20 GMT -5
When someone tells you that the world is round and not flat, that's not new either. Do you have anything to offer to the discussion here other than your usual trolling?
"I agree there is A LOT of snake oil in this business, however, I will almost always disagree with broad sweeping statements like "speaker cables and interconnects do not make a difference.""
That's been debunked a looooong time ago. It's pretty funny that people are now back to talking about this. There's lots of snake oil but speaker wire isn't one of them? Yeah, sure.
That someone agrees with you doesn't mean that they agree with you. I've been at a party talking to the host while he was going off about the Federal Reserve and conspiracies and 911. I agreed with him because he wasn't that intelligent, I'm pretty sure he was schizophrenic and I wanted to shorten the conversation. It doesn't mean that I actually agreed with him.
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Post by novisnick on Nov 9, 2014 2:24:55 GMT -5
When someone tells you that the world is round and not flat, that's not new either. Do you have anything to offer to the discussion here other than your usual trolling? "I agree there is A LOT of snake oil in this business, however, I will almost always disagree with broad sweeping statements like "speaker cables and interconnects do not make a difference."" That's been debunked a looooong time ago. It's pretty funny that people are now back to talking about this. There's lots of snake oil but speaker wire isn't one of them? Yeah, sure. That someone agrees with you doesn't mean that they agree with you. I've been at a party talking to the host while he was going off about the Federal Reserve and conspiracies and 911. I agreed with him because he wasn't that intelligent, I'm pretty sure he was schizophrenic and I wanted to shorten the conversation. It doesn't mean that I actually agreed with him. I agree!!,,,,he,,,,,he,,,,he,,,,,, Too easy! 8) |
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Post by frenchyfranky on Nov 9, 2014 2:30:16 GMT -5
So you are saying the XPA-5, halo, Krell Chorus, McIntosh amp, all have the same sound? I hope you will not say "yes". . Inside of their linear operating limits, they all sound the same. You can apply whatever fancy brands you want to it, but much the snake oil effect applies just as it does to audioquest Everett cables. |
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Post by Jim on Nov 9, 2014 7:25:40 GMT -5
When someone tells you that the world is round and not flat, that's not new either. Do you have anything to offer to the discussion here other than your usual trolling?. You make the same generalizations in every thread you post in. And you get the same reaction from people every single time. And then when people disagree you attack them. I'm not the troll here. "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." So if we ageee with you. You'll go away? |
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Post by bigmule on Nov 9, 2014 9:12:55 GMT -5
When someone tells you that the world is round and not flat, that's not new either. Do you have anything to offer to the discussion here other than your usual trolling? "I agree there is A LOT of snake oil in this business, however, I will almost always disagree with broad sweeping statements like "speaker cables and interconnects do not make a difference."" That's been debunked a looooong time ago. It's pretty funny that people are now back to talking about this. There's lots of snake oil but speaker wire isn't one of them? Yeah, sure. That someone agrees with you doesn't mean that they agree with you. I've been at a party talking to the host while he was going off about the Federal Reserve and conspiracies and 911. I agreed with him because he wasn't that intelligent, I'm pretty sure he was schizophrenic and I wanted to shorten the conversation. It doesn't mean that I actually agreed with him. Debunked? Hahahaha!!!!! I guess all the years I sold hifi gear have no relevance here. All the cables I sold were done by allowing customers to take them home and try them on their system, without me being there....and I sold a lot of cables... you got me.... Now, only because if you, I know that all my cables are worthless , I guess I will take all my cables and melt them down. can you send me a photo of you as I will make a statue in your honor??? Clearly, you are the superior being in this world. Everyone else is wrong , and you are right. I only wish I would have known all of this sooner.... Boy, I am so embarrassed.... In case you weren't aware, it WAS the speaker cable companies and the Federal Reserve that caused the Twinkie shortage....hahahaaaa!!!! |
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LCSeminole
Global Moderator
Res firma mitescere nescit.
Posts: 20,865
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Post by LCSeminole on Nov 9, 2014 10:53:45 GMT -5
In general, if all members wouldn't react to recurring posts by those that they have a dis-taste for, then maybe that controversy may just go the way of the proverbial dodo bird. In other words, if we don't feed the fire, then the flame will burn out. Not to mention that it keeps the peace around here as well. There is always the "Member Block List". Profile ---> Privacy ---> Member Block List, and simply enter chosen members screen name. Just offering up some friendly advise.  |
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