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Post by linvincible on Oct 31, 2014 11:00:33 GMT -5
Greetings Users, I'm looking for a high-end USB DAC (again) Has to be compatible with linux micro systems (driverless) and read PCM 192 and DSD 128. Also needs to have XLR balanced outs, and preferably as little options as possible (not even volume control) I gathered a few suggestions in the following file
Original table: (not updated, for updates see link above) brand
| model
| price | SQ | volume control | ethernet input | Fully symetrical | USB input Driverless | DSD64 | DSD128 | score
| notes | Meitner
| MA1 DAC
| 7000
3500
| Row 2 column 4 | 4 | NO | YES | YES | YES | YES | 8.666666667
| | PS Audio
| DirectStream
| 6000
| Row 3 column 4 | 4 | NO | YES | YES | YES | YES | 8
| | Auralic
| Vega
| | Row 4 column 4 | 3 | NO | YES | YES | YES | YES | 7.833333333
| | Lampizator
| Amber
| 3800
| Row 5 column 4 | 3 | NO | YES | YES | YES | YES | 8.733333333
| | MSB
| Analogue
| 7000
| Row 6 column 4 | 4 | NO | YES | uncertain | YES | YES | 7.666666667
| | Benchmark
| DAC2
| 2500
| Row 7 column 4 | 3 | NO | YES | YES | YES | YES | 8.166666667
| | | Playback Designs | MPD-3
| 6500
| Row 8 column 4 | 3 | NO | YES | uncertain | YES | YES | 6.833333333
| | Ayre
| QB9 DSD
| 3500
| Row 9 column 4 | 3 | NO | YES | uncertain | YES | NO | 6.833333333
| | Exasound
| E22
| 3500
| Row 10 column 4 | 3 | NO | YES | NO | YES | YES | 6.833333333
| linux drivers in developpment | Marantz
| NA11-S1 | 3500
| Row 11 column 4 | 4 | YES | YES | uncertain | YES | YES | 6.833333333
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What are your suggestions/opinions? I'm waiting for definitive answer from support over "driverlessability" for some, and SQ is only imaginary for now, reason why I didn't give too much of a difference between models. In this list I only tested the Marantz NA11-S1 and I was impressed at how it handled red book when compared to my Mytek, that's why I want a new DAC: I know there's better out there! I wasn't impressed with the MSB Platinum IV I tested last week (fully loaded, 40K version). And I rate the Mytek higher than the DC-1 after an evening playing with both of them, reason why it's not in the list . Earger to read what you think! |
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Post by audiobill on Oct 31, 2014 11:11:59 GMT -5
You've overlooked the Grace m920, which ticks the boxes!
also, the Lynx Hilo, which also has an A/D converter.
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Post by linvincible on Oct 31, 2014 11:21:36 GMT -5
You've overlooked the Grace m920, which ticks the boxes! also, the Lynx Hilo, which also has an A/D converter. thanks for the suggestion, I added it to the Google Doc. (to messy to update the table in my original post) It needs a driver for Mac though so I assume it's not driverless for linux and might not be compatible with sms-100 and other micro systems... |
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Post by audiobill on Oct 31, 2014 11:27:11 GMT -5
are you sure a driver's needed?
In any case, I'm very happy with the Grace.
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menez
Minor Hero
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Post by menez on Oct 31, 2014 11:36:40 GMT -5
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Post by garbulky on Oct 31, 2014 11:59:47 GMT -5
Holy moly! So you listened to all these yourself? Very nice.
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Post by moko on Oct 31, 2014 12:41:04 GMT -5
Weiss Medus DAC. i don't know anything about its sound quality, but their lower end model DAC202 measurements was glorious. i wonder how their flagship model sounds. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2014 14:16:56 GMT -5
JFYI, the FAT (Firestone Audio Tobby) is the best USB DAC I have heard to date. It is was one of the pieces of gear with a dumb name that flew completely under the radar. It doesn't do DSD, but there are a lot of units by companies such as ifi audio, Geek, ect., that have good reputations for making great affordable DSD units that can be add-ons to what you already have. The main 4 DACs I have owned in the last 2 years are the W4S DAC 2, Benchmark I, FAT, Keces DA-151. Of these 4, there is absolutely no comparison in USB audio. The FAT is in a league of it's own. The FAT is so good in it's USB implementation that none of the the Audiophilleo units, nor the Empirical Audio Offramps units could offer any improvement. In the short time that it has been out it has become the reference DAC for a reviewer, and a recording studio. The crazy thing is, is that this DAC surfaced last year at 1100.00. It got no attention. The prices dropped and dropped until I got mine new off Amazon for 450.00. You could back then, and sometimes still can, find them for as low as 350.00. Now people have started finding out how good the FAT is and the prices have gone crazy. There are 5 for sell right now on Amazon and the prices are now 1700-2500.00...wow! www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00AU5GCAM/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&condition=newThere are lots of things to like about the FAT. You can upsample, downsample, any audio signal, and then quickly A/B compare it to the native resolution from the source to see what you prefer. But I guess the thing that I like the best about it, besides the sound, is the ability to op-amp roll. Man, has this been a eye opener, game changer, whatever you want to call it, but I had no idea that the character of an audio device could be changed so much by changing the op-amps! Op-amp technology is moving as fast as DAC technology, and the ability to change the sound character of your DAC to a latest op-amp design is really cool. I have experimented with many different op-amps but the LME49720NA/NOPBs from TI, a suggestion from David Wei (inventor of the Keces DAC), are what I like best. OMG, what a sound! These should be stock in every DAC, lol. But at what cost to op-amp roll you ask? It cost $19.00 including shipping from Arrow Electronics. Ok, enough rabbit trail, but it is a DAC to definitely check out! |
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Post by routlaw on Oct 31, 2014 17:52:43 GMT -5
JFTR, I went to Firestone Audios website, looked up their dealer and a not a single one of them listed the Tobby or anything Firestone Audio at all. As far as the amazon link goes, they are all Asian purveyors, i.e. Japan etc. None of them in NA so those prices are relatively meaningless. I have to ask, have you compared this DAC to the Emo Stealth DC-1? I have owned a lot of Dacs and digital front ends from Wadia, Arcam, Krell Oppo, Eastern Electric and many more but don't feel I am missing much if anything with the DC-1. No doubt there might be better ones, but my guess is they are going to set you back a whole lot more for relatively minor increases.
Just some thoughts.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2014 20:16:27 GMT -5
Routlaw, I looked too and didn't see anything. That's really too bad as a DAC with a somewhat retarded name "Tobby" has one of the best sounds I have ever heard. Richard Moulding at Spearit Sound thinks the same as I do about this unit. "On food, if it doesn't look right people don't even want to try it. On audio, if the name is "too funky" the same logic might apply." He said that he thought that Firestone might reside to selling in Asia, and Europe where it is much more popular. I have emailed Firestone directly to tell them that Tobby, and Bobby" might be a cute name to them for a DAC and headphone amp, but to us Americans it is really too far off in left field and sound a little retarded. It's not names most audiophiles would take seriously. Anyway, I like the name "FAT" DAC. I have never heard the DC-1 except at Emofest. It's just hard to know by hearing something in an event like that how it is going to actually sound at home. But, anyway at some point I hope to hear it in a home setting. I have not heard that many DACs, but I do somewhat know how to judge good sound. I am fortunate to be the concert piano technician for SkyPac, WKU, Steinway Gallery, Orchestra Kentucky....yada, yada. I use my ears to make my living. I also play several instruments by note, and by ear. I only say this because I am constantly in "live" music situations and know first hand how "real" instruments sound. I constantly work in situations where many instruments are involved. When a piece of gear reproduces instruments with true realism, I know it. When instruments sound in my living room very close to what they sound like live it is a good piece of gear regardless of the price, brand, rating, etc. Again, I know it because I am constantly in places where I have live instrument sounds surrounding me and can compare those sounds to the recorded instrument sounds reproduced in my home audio systems. But basically, when it sounds like the musicians are actually in your room you know you have some good gear. Anyway, hear is a few review of the FAT that led me to trying it: Reviews: www.hdphonic.com/en/hardware/firestone-audio-tobby/earmass.com/2013/08/11/firestone-audio-tobby-the-reference/By John Grandberg - www.head-fi.org/t/664270/review-firestone-audio-tobby-dac ================================================================ “Admittedly, at times the difference was small enough to make me question the value of the AP1 system. Specifically, my Firestone Audio Tobby DAC ($1099) shows practically zero improvement. It seems like the designer really optimized it for USB over all the other inputs, and the AP1 is not able to add much to the experience.” parttimeaudiophile.com/2013/09/06/audiophileo-1-with-pure-power-the-little-combo-that-could/ (this is the same conclusion that, John Grandberg, the head-fi.org reviewer came to) |
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Post by danny01 on Oct 31, 2014 21:51:44 GMT -5
Have you considered Audio GD? What I like about them is that theyre very open about their design, manufacturing, qc, and components used. You can also request certain upgrades(eg bigger transformer and caps or an extra pair of analog outputs) that may not even be listed on their site, and they will most likely build one out for you. Tons more info over at headfi if you want to read up.
Any particular reason for choosing linux?
Sent from my SM-P600 using proboards
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Post by linvincible on Nov 1, 2014 8:03:30 GMT -5
Weiss Medus DAC. i don't know anything about its sound quality, but their lower end model DAC202 measurements was glorious. i wonder how their flagship model sounds. unfortunately not within my budget  |
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Post by linvincible on Nov 1, 2014 8:04:17 GMT -5
Holy moly! So you listened to all these yourself? Very nice. noooo.... for the moment I only listened to the Marantz one (from that list) |
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Post by linvincible on Nov 1, 2014 8:06:34 GMT -5
JFYI, the FAT (Firestone Audio Tobby) is the best USB DAC I have heard to date. It is was one of the pieces of gear with a dumb name that flew completely under the radar. It doesn't do DSD, but there are a lot of units by companies such as ifi audio, Geek, ect., that have good reputations for making great affordable DSD units that can be add-ons to what you already have. The main 4 DACs I have owned in the last 2 years are the W4S DAC 2, Benchmark I, FAT, Keces DA-151. Of these 4, there is absolutely no comparison in USB audio. The FAT is in a league of it's own. The FAT is so good in it's USB implementation that none of the the Audiophilleo units, nor the Empirical Audio Offramps units could offer any improvement. In the short time that it has been out it has become the reference DAC for a reviewer, and a recording studio. The crazy thing is, is that this DAC surfaced last year at 1100.00. It got no attention. The prices dropped and dropped until I got mine new off Amazon for 450.00. You could back then, and sometimes still can, find them for as low as 350.00. Now people have started finding out how good the FAT is and the prices have gone crazy. There are 5 for sell right now on Amazon and the prices are now 1700-2500.00...wow! www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00AU5GCAM/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&condition=newThere are lots of things to like about the FAT. You can upsample, downsample, any audio signal, and then quickly A/B compare it to the native resolution from the source to see what you prefer. But I guess the thing that I like the best about it, besides the sound, is the ability to op-amp roll. Man, has this been a eye opener, game changer, whatever you want to call it, but I had no idea that the character of an audio device could be changed so much by changing the op-amps! Op-amp technology is moving as fast as DAC technology, and the ability to change the sound character of your DAC to a latest op-amp design is really cool. I have experimented with many different op-amps but the LME49720NA/NOPBs from TI, a suggestion from David Wei (inventor of the Keces DAC), are what I like best. OMG, what a sound! These should be stock in every DAC, lol. But at what cost to op-amp roll you ask? It cost $19.00 including shipping from Arrow Electronics. Ok, enough rabbit trail, but it is a DAC to definitely check out! thanks but I really don't want to miss out good DSD albums, and I don't want multiiple DACs in the system! |
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Post by linvincible on Nov 1, 2014 8:19:37 GMT -5
Have you considered Audio GD? What I like about them is that theyre very open about their design, manufacturing, qc, and components used. You can also request certain upgrades(eg bigger transformer and caps or an extra pair of analog outputs) that may not even be listed on their site, and they will most likely build one out for you. Tons more info over at headfi if you want to read up. Any particular reason for choosing linux? Sent from my SM-P600 using proboards Good idea for audio GD, updated the file. linux is because I use the sms-100 player, or picoreplayer on RaspberryPi |
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Post by moko on Nov 1, 2014 11:48:34 GMT -5
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2014 12:34:00 GMT -5
Don't know if it is still there, but yesterday there was a Nad M51 (1995.00 list) being sold on Ebay for 1199.00 that was a demo unit from a hi-fi store with full warranty. It was rated in the October 2014 issue of Stereophile as Class A+.
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Post by linvincible on Nov 24, 2014 11:44:32 GMT -5
Don't know if it is still there, but yesterday there was a Nad M51 (1995.00 list) being sold on Ebay for 1199.00 that was a demo unit from a hi-fi store with full warranty. It was rated in the October 2014 issue of Stereophile as Class A+. NAD doesn't support DSD yet... I ended up with the PS Audio DirectStream, posted it on the new gear topic ;o) |
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DYohn
Emo VIPs 
Posts: 18,494
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Post by DYohn on Nov 24, 2014 12:13:17 GMT -5
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Post by plm on Nov 25, 2014 23:08:04 GMT -5
The newer Wyred4Sound DACs have an asynchronous, driverless USB implementation, and defeatable volume, but they may be a bit too cheap to make your list! You need the DAC-1LE or the DAC-2DSD or DAC-2DSDse though; the earlier DAC-2 USB implementation isn't as good as the newer card and doesn't support DSD.
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